Christian Masons???

reply to post by Simplynoone


That is an excellent example of taking bible verses out of context with the intention to be deceptive. That specific verse is referring to the practices of pagan religions. God does NOT care how you worship as long as you do so acknowledging you are worshiping the god of the Bible.

2 Chronicles 29.25-26:‘He set the Levites in the house of the Lord with cymbals, with psalteries, and with harps, according to the commandment of David, and of Gad the king’s seer ... for so was the commandment of the Lord by his prophets. And the Levites stood with the instruments of David, and the priests with the trumpets.’

Psalm 149 includes the verse, ‘Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp’

It never says anything about religious rituals or one form of worship being better than one or another (or any rituals) being bad, that's your bias.

Indeed, the Bible REQUIRES two rituals - baptism and communion


LK. 22:14-20
14 When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. 15 And he said to them, "I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16 For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God." 17 After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, "take this and divide it among you. 18 For I tell you I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes."19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is by body given for you; do this in remembrance of me. " 20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you."

Act 2:42
They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.

I COR.. 11:26-28
." 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. 27 Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup.

(Romans 6:3 KJV) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
(Romans 6:4 KJV) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
(Romans 6:5 KJV) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
(Romans 6:6 KJV) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
(Romans 6:7 KJV) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
(Ephesians 4:5 KJV) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Feel free to hate ritual, but it has no basis in the bible. Its quite anti-Bible, in fact.


[edit on 29-10-2008 by LowLevelMason]

Yes and none of them mean nothing if it is not from the heart ..
In fact they have symbolic significance more so than physical ...
Just like your pagan rituals do .....
Even the OT Jewish traditions did not help them did they >? in fact it was alot like Catholic Confessions ...
Your not looking at it with spiritual eyes are you ?

I dont say they are wrong ..I say most of the time those rituals are done more for their own purposes ..and not for the spiritual significance of it ..

And they do nothing for anyone if their heart is far from him ...

I meditate on my Lord day and night ..Communion is every day of every night with my LORD ..not just once a year or whatever ..
Everyday is HIS DAY ..not just on Sunday ...everyday is giving to whoever asks (Not just titheing in church etc ) ....giving our time to others ..
It is a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP every minute of every day ..with the LORD JESUS CHRIST and NO OTHER GOD or RITUAL will do to achieve that kind of CLOSE PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP ...

Baptism is a SPIRITUAL BAPTISM ..the water just helps make it real for us ..As it is our HEARTS and our spirit that actually gets washed not the actual physical body which is going back to dust no matter how much you baptise it in water ..
IT IS SPIRITUAL ..and if done when your heart is really understanding it ..YOU DO GET REBORN for real IN SPIRIT ...otherwise all you accomplished was a water washing (nothing more) ....see what I mean ../


Really if your spiritual there is no need for rituals ....

Here is where you and I have problems ...
You see things on a level of a MAN and TRADITIONAL rituals..
*carnal minded thinking ..
I see on the level of spiritual which needs no traditional rituals to feel the affect .... ..it can be accomplished without the physical traditions of actually doing the act (Baptism and Communion) ....
*spiritual minded thinking ....
Thats why we cant see eye to eye ...

Low we just never get anywhere you and I ...we are two different beings and certainly not compatible even as friends ...
You can never keep your cool and your snide remarks and paranoia actually makes the craft even more suspect .and makes me more suspect of you even .......

Because let me tell you ...if your a Christian ..THEN WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE YOUR BROTHERS and SISTERS IN CHRIST too and you seem to DETEST every single Christian who questions you about anything ..even if it is done gently ...you get so mad ...(where is that SELF DISCIPLINE ?) do your Masonic rituals teach you that > ?

I will hold you up in prayer ...

reply to post by Simplynoone

Yes and none of them mean nothing if it is not from the heart ..
In fact they have symbolic significance more so than physical ...
Just like your pagan rituals do .....
Even the OT Jewish traditions did not help them did they >? in fact it was alot like Catholic Confessions ...
Your not looking at it with spiritual eyes are you ?

So... you know what they are doing when they pray to God?
'Cause, that's what you're saying, that they are not worshiping God, right?
And, therefore, you are perfectly willing and able to pass judgment on people you've never met?

the issue between Masonic Oaths and Christianity to see if I can‘t shed some light on some questions such as whether or not are oaths "strictly forbidden in the scriptures"? Are oaths "in direct violation of the Word of God"? Does "the Word of God plainly tells us not to swear"? Perhaps there is no better place to begin this exposition of oaths than by explaining what we mean when we speak of oaths. Simply stated, an oath is a promise. More particularly, an oath or promise is simply an agreement entered into between one person and another whereby the one taking the oath calls upon God to witness. Webster’s Dictionary defines it as: 1) solemn affirmation made with an appeal to God for the truth of what is affirmed. 2) In law, solemn declaration necessary as a condition to the filling of an office, or of giving evidence in a court; (a) assertory oaths, where something is asserted as true; (b) promissory oath, by which something is promised. 3) Irreverent or profane use of the name of God or any sacred thing to express anger or emphasize a statement. The point of contention arises from the “Christian Anti Mason” writers and their interpretation on taking oaths. From the New Testament they use passages like the Fifth Chapter of James, the 12th verse : "But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and [your] nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation." Another scripture that is often quoted against the taking of oaths comes from, the book of Zechariah the Eighth chapter the 17th verse where it says: "And let none of you imagine evil in your hearts against his neighbor; and love no false oath: for all these [are things] that I hate, saith the LORD." It is scripture such as these that are generally used to support the condemning of the taking of any oaths. However, by examining other scriptures, such as those found in the Thirtieth chapter of Numbers, the Eleventh chapter of Jeremiah, the 6th and 7th Chapter of Hebrews, among others we find actually that not only are there instances where the taking of oaths are important to God, but that keeping them is required of Him.

The majority of us have taken oaths, both formally and informally at different stages in our lives. The marriage vows are actually oaths before God and witnesses "I take thee to be my lawful wedded wife and I do promise and covenant before God and these witnesses to be thy loving and faithful husband, in sickness and in health...” Should we have to attend court and be called to testify, we have to take an oath to "tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth." This oath also has a penalty attached should we fail in that obligation. Even when we tell someone says "I promise... fill in the blank" you are actually taking an oath to that person. What most people fail to realize is that an oath is what we do when we make a promise, or make a commitment. What those people who say, “you shouldn’t take oaths" really in all honesty should be saying is “you should not take an oath which conflicts with your duty to God." Anyone reading anything from a Grand Lodge or the Masonic Information Center will easily find written, “Without interfering in religious practice, it expects each member to follow his own faith and to place his Duty to God above all other duties”. That Masons agree with this principle, Mackey’s Revised Encyclopedia states: “the Masonic obligation is that moral one which is not enforced in the courts of law, is binding on the party who makes it”. Much as the pledge or oath of allegiance is which all American recite every day.

The taking of an oath is not something that should be entered into lightly we read in Numbers 30:2 “when a man makes a vow to the LORD or takes an oath to obligate himself by a pledge, he must not break his word but must do everything he said”.
This according to the Matthew Henry Complete Commentary may be meant, either;
1. of those promises to which God is a party, vows made to God; these must be punctually paid (Eccl. 5:4, 5): or, 2. Of those promises made to our brethren, to which God was a Witness, he being appealed to concerning our sincerity; these must be performed to the Lord, with an eye to him, and for his sake: for to him, by ratifying the promises with an oath, we have made ourselves debtors; and if we break a promise so ratified, we have not lied unto men only, but unto God.
On both points Masons would agree on and Masonic principles would support.
Our entire duty is to GOD, our country, our neighbor, and our own self is or should be evident the performance of every activity whether, religious, political and social. In comparison with what Jesus says about letting your yes be yes, etc., it's quite clear that the meaning is not to utter idle promises but to let your WORD be true, just as the WORD of God is true. “We read in the Book of Ruth that to confirm all things a man plucked off his shoe and gave it to his neighbor, and this was testimony in Israel ”. Giving one's shoe shows the same intent as giving one's word: it is how we desire to testify to the sincerity of our intention in the business in which we are engaged.


The oaths that we take as Masons are to be considered and remembered and adhered to, just as any other oath or promise that we take. We as “just and upright men” should remember that we are making a serious commitment. We have taken them on a Volume of the Sacred Law which is the guide for our faith and the rule of our lives. Clearly we have all taken an obligation on that book, vowing to conduct our lives in accordance with its precepts. Our ritual includes references to: purity of life and conduct; being good and true; practicing the domestic and public virtues; squaring our actions by the Square of virtue; and displaying discretion, virtue and dignity. But even the most explicit laws or lists of do's and don'ts or standards of conduct are futile if those they apply to lack the basic character to abide by them. Some anti-Masonic writers have complained about the so-called "penalties" in the Masonic obligations. The much discussed "penalties," judicial remnants from an earlier era, are symbolic, not literal. They refer only to the pain any honest man should feel at the thought of violating his word.

Please consider the following details from the scriptures themselves. That oaths are permissible to Christians is shown by the example of our Lord (Matthew 26:63), and of Paul (2 Corinthians 1:23; Galatians 1:20) and even of God Himself (Hebrews 6:13-18). Consequently when Christ said, "Swear not at all" (Matthew 5:34), He was laying down the principle that the Christian must not have two standards of truth, but that his ordinary speech must be as sacredly true as his oath. As Masons we have an “unerring Standard of Truth” and we are taught that,” We are to regard the Sacred Volume of Law as the Great Light in our profession and to consider it as our unerring standard of Truth and justice. Just as we are taught of our duty we owe to God”. Understanding this we as Masons could not possibly have two standards of Truth.
The Biblical Law regarding an oath is refers to the invoking of a curse upon one's self if one has not spoken the truth (Matthew 26:74), or if one fails to keep a promise (1 Samuel 19:6; 20:17; 2 Samuel 15:21; 19:23). It played a very important part, not only in lawsuits (Exodus 22:11; Leviticus 6:3,5), and also in the dealings of everyday life (Genesis 24:37; 50:5; Judges 21:5; 1 Kings 18:10; Ezra 10:5). The Mosaic laws concerning oaths were not meant to limit the widespread custom of making oaths, so much as to impress upon the people the sacredness of an oath, forbidding on the one hand swearing falsely (Exodus 20:7; Leviticus 19:12; Zechariah 8:17, etc.) . Evidently, it is swearing in common intercourse and on frivolous occasions that is here meant. Frivolous oaths were indeed severely condemned in the teaching of the times.

Though some Christians continue to teach that the Third commandment in particular and Scripture in general forbid all oaths, they have used such passages as Matt. 5:33-37 and James 5:12 wherein we find the oft-quoted command "swear not at all" to support their view. And at a glance, these passages appear to indeed forbid all oaths. Yet in Defense of our use of Oaths or Obligations we have found that by carefully interpreting these passages, that Christ was merely correcting Pharisaical and scribal abuses and misinterpretations of God's standards when it come to oaths. When interpreted in light of the general context of Scripture as a whole and in light of the particular context, we have seen that far from forbidding all oaths, Christ and James forbade only unlawful oaths and defined the guidelines for taking oaths, and refuted common excuses for breaking oaths.
Those guidelines to me would fall into four categories: 1. the oath must be necessary, 2. what you are about to say must be true, or you must do what you are about to promise. 3. You must be prepared to abide by your oath no matter how your personal interests or circumstances may change and 4. The reason for the oath must be Moral. Oddly enough while some Christians erroneously teach that Scripture forbids all oaths, still others erroneously teach that Scripture only sanctions public oaths for example oaths given in a public context, usually extracted by public officials. This view simply does not accord with the full weight of Scripture. Many oaths in Scripture are made between private individuals acting solely in a private capacity as in Abraham to Abimelech, Abraham's servant to Abraham, Isaac to Abraham, Jacob to Laban and Boaz to Ruth among many others.

I think it is important to point out last fact. That is to point out how many pastors; preachers and theologians have been members of our fraternity. I find it odd that none of these men who have been called by God to preach have not denounced their membership in our Ancient and honorable fraternity. Men like Norman Vincent Peale, George W. Truett, Peter C. Marshall, James C. Baker, William R. White, William F. Anderson and many, many more. I think it is worthy to note that the religious critics of the Craft fall into the same trap that the conspiracy critics fall into. They take one aspect of our organization and redefine or re-interpret it. Or use an author quotes out of context and apply it to the fraternity as a whole. They take the actions of a few to taint their view of all of us. And this is not only inaccurate, but it is dishonest. When they cast us all in a negative light just because of the actions of a few only goes to show how short-sighted some critics are It would be on par with condemning all of Catholicism for having a few child molesting priests Should we denigrate all preachers just because a few of them have stolen or committed adultery? The answer, obviously, is no.

Our initiations and ceremonies represent may only be a minute fraction of the time that someone spends in Masonry, but they have a large impact and are extremely meaningful in the lives of our members. So the bottom line after it is all said and done is that it comes down to the individual as to whether or not their beliefs as Christians are compatible taking oaths, affiliating with professions such as doctors, in join the military, fire or police department or even a political office. What we must remember is that the only person who is the absolute authority on ANY subject regarding Christianity is God. For anyone else to pretend to have all the answers is pompous and arrogant.



[edit on 29-10-2008 by KYCH/32KCCH]

reply to post by Simplynoone


Wow. Sorry but your literally just making stuff up. No where does it say that baptism is ONLY A SPIRITUAL BAPTISM, in fact it says you should be baptized by water as Jesus Christ was. Or are you better than your God? Frankly, if Jesus did it, I think its a good idea.

You are casting wide the net of judgment and its just not based on facts. Rituals are not wrong - the Bible requires at least 2.

Who are you to say what I or anyone else does or does not derive from ritual? How do you know I do not approach it spiritually?

If your spiritual there is no need for rituals

You can feel free to worship whatever god you want. I worship the God of the Bible, and he CLEARLY states there IS a need for ritual. There is no debating it, no trying to get around it. If you hate ritual, you hate the God of the Bible.

Frankly, your not the type of person who is ever going to change their mind on anything. You selectively read what you want to read, I have pointed out explicit examples of where you have done this at least three times in this very thread. Anytime anyone says something you don't want to believe, it makes you "suspicious." What do you expect me to do, tell you that all of your misinformed conceptions and sometimes downright falsehoods are true? Would that make you less suspicious?

I don't detest anything. You are the one getting angry and throwing fits every time someone doesn't confirm what you want to believe. You have some anger issues.

Originally posted by noobfun

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

The mathmatical command and control vehicle of the masons and the jews is capitalism. Once the structure breaks down it will be replaced with worldwide socialism which is also a masonic ideal.

wait what? its the masonic dream for them to be the ruling class lording it over the masses of the poor workers and forcing them to pay for everything keeping them poor ... thats the nwo capitalism way in right

but thats massivley different to socialism .... so which is it they want?

or are they using one to get the other?

I believe that they are using capitalism to unite the leaders of the world under the flag of self interest. Greed is good, but it is evil in that it doesn't care about the greater good. The greater good must prevail. We are nearing the endgame now. Worldwide capitalism is unsustainable, worldwide communism is deplorable and worldwide socialism is the only other answer.

Worldwide anarchy has proven to be a dismal failure so we best not go that route.

[edit on 30-10-2008 by In nothing we trust]

reply to post by In nothing we trust


Who is the "they" in this?

I can't tell - surely you don't think masons are doing this.

Originally posted by LowLevelMason
reply to post by In nothing we trust

Who is the "they" in this?

Well that's the eternal question isn't it.

Who are "they"?

[edit on 30-10-2008 by In nothing we trust]

For your info Low I have been Baptised at least 3 times in my life ...
I think you need to reread my posts ..I dont think your getting it yet ..
I actually dont think you will ..

Your trying to justify being Masonic and Christian ...and keep mixing the two ...they just dont go together Low ..they are contrary to eachother no matter how much you try and tie the two together ...it wont work ...

reply to post by Simplynoone


I want to point out the post by our new member KYCH/32KCCH.

Knight of the York Court of Honor is the highest honor that can be afforded to a Christian Mason of the York Rite and is only bestowed after a lifetime of masonic service and service to the York Rite.

In order to become a KYCH, one must have presided over a Commandery of Knights Templar.

To even JOIN the Knights Templar, one must be a Master Mason as well as a Christian. It's not enough to just 'believe' in Christ, one must swear a "firm belief in the Christian religion" and swear to defend Christianity from all threats.

The words that KYCH/32KCCH writes are not a cut-and-pasted diatribe, they are the words of a man who has spent a lifetime of service to Christ and who is a Freemason.

So, you see, Christianity and Freemasonry are not opposites. In fact they complement each other in a beautiful way. For those of us who ARE Christians, masonry is a way to become better followers of Christ's example and stewards of our neighbors.

There is a powerful message in his post. I urge you to read through it thoughtfully.


KYCH - It is an honor to have you on this site.

reply to post by emsed1


I would like to thank you for your welcome.
You are correct, what I posted was from lectures that I have given at various Masonic events. The one thing that I found interesting was that the higher you go in Masonry the more Christians you find who are either active in their church.
Also I have found them to be very strong in their respective positions on doctrine, dogma, and theology. Oddly enough anti masons normally fail to understand Masons only refrain from religious discussions while in a formal meeting ONLY. The same as with most secular organizations. I have enjoyed speaking about Christ with other Brothers while at a Lodge dinner or after a meeting.

reply to post by KYCH/32KCCH


Hi KYCH ...I appreciate you posting some info for us .And your at least not hostile in your post ..thanks for that .

Seems to me like you are saying that because a few men who are supposedly good little Christians who have joined your fraternity that means it must be ok with God and should be ok in the eyes of all believers then ?
Sounds alot like some Catholics who say if the Pope sayeth it ..then it must be true ..
Has it ever occurred to any of you that they may be mistaken and are deceived ?

Dont say it cannot happen to you ..because its easy to get deceived ..even I was deceived by a particular denomination I attended for awhile ..they went strictly by the book (bible) ..the problem was they were a cult ..plain and simple ...
This wasnt easy to see ..and it was even harder to uncover where they had gone so wrong ...it took alot of studying and listening carefully to what they were teaching ..but first I had to open my eyes to the fact that they could be deceptive in their teachings ...that was the hard part ..because I loved them ..and they were so kind and good ...and yet they were robbing their people of everything .....they ran these peoples lives ..from what they could eat ..what they could read ..what they needed to give to the pastor etc ...

KYCH I have a million questions ..I hope you have plenty of patience for people like me ...unlike some here ..
I believe in order to get answers you have to ask questions ..and I may not like some answers but that does not mean that I just completly reject them all ....In fact some here like Appak and a few others really did get me relaxed somewhat on who masons are as people ...and I did change my mind some .

As far as Christ and Masonry ..thats what I cant get past ..
They are contrary in my personal opinion ..and I cant seem to get past the Gnostic stuff and the Mystical stuff ..and the ritual stuff and the fact that Christians could sit up under a club who claims God has many names ..doesnt matter what you want to call him as long as you believe he is supreme .
What about those who claim Gods name is Lucifer and that he is a supreme being ...Would that be enough to allow that person into that fraternity ?

The God of the bible ..says there is NO OTHER NAME by which one can be saved except JESUS CHRIST the Lord the SON of the LIVING GOD ...
Pretty much rules out any other names as being God doesnt it ?


1Cr 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.

[edit on 30-10-2008 by Simplynoone]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
KYCH I have a million questions ..I hope you have plenty of patience for people like me ...unlike some here ..

I'm not him, but I've got some time to kill, so I'll give it a shot!

As far as Christ and Masonry ..thats what I cant get past ..
They are contrary in my personal opinion ..and I cant seem to get past the Gnostic stuff and the Mystical stuff

Gnostics were Christians. The Gnostic Catholics were persecuted by the Roman Catholics, and eventually died out. Who knows though, they may have been right, and the Romanists wrong. Regardless, Freemasonry is not Gnostic, although Gnostics are welcome to become Masons.

As for mysticism, all religions and spiritual societies are mystical. I think that's the whole point...otherwise, it would be a waste of time.

..and the ritual stuff and the fact that Christians could sit up under a club who claims God has many names ..doesnt matter what you want to call him as long as you believe he is supreme .

Freemasonry does not claim that God has many names. It simply affirms that God exists.

What about those who claim Gods name is Lucifer and that he is a supreme being ...Would that be enough to allow that person into that fraternity ?

There is no Masonic requirement about believing in a certain name for God. An individual's person religious beliefs are just that, and have nothing to do with the fraternity.

for the longest time, i was really snagged on the "who is jehovah" thing.
it started with research on who is "allah."
the allah research lead me to baal.
the baal research lead me to bel.
the bel research lead me to EL,
which lead me to Enlil (sumerian).

i'm afraid it's true...

jehovah could be called baal (because it meant LORD, generically-speaking, sorta like "God" is a generic word for several entities, only one of which is Christ and/or Jehovah. he could also be called bel. and EL and Enlil and Allah.

i had found this excellent etymology that basically showed that IL doesn't translate to AL. sadly, it leaves out EL. IL became EL became AL. i didn't want to believe it either. so my next task was to find out who bel and enlil were. suffice it to say, i think somebody tossed the Lord in a bucket, tossed in some Adversary, and stirred liberally, cause that's the biggest jumbled up mess. it's taken me ages to unscramble it all so that the ancient texts telling the same exact stories, start to make a bit more sense!

(addendum to above post: i do note, however, that the ones the bible refers to as bad (bel, baal, for example) may be indicated by the "b" proceeding them (not "b" for "bad" but "b" from "Ab", later "Bab', which is the water god thing, the guy who is supposedly the sumerian equivalent to the serpent in the Garden... none other than the sumerian Enki (akkadian Ea). he was associated with the abyss (Ab and Bab). long story short, that may be why "ba'al" and "bel" are frowned upon in the biblical texts, because although Enki (Ea) was a "god" to the ancient people, he was a particularly devious one who was a constant adversary of Enlil. so those words (bel, baal) might be better translated as water god or simply enki (ea, etc. the guy with the trident... believe it or not!)



[edit on 30-10-2008 by undo]

reply to post by Simplynoone


Simplynoone, Freemasonry has no dogma, cosmology, eschatology or theology that has o be followed. Nor does it offers sacraments or ritual of worship, and unlike religion it does not claim to lead to salvation by any definition.

Freemasonry does not assert nor does it teach that one religion is as good as another. We admits men of all religions and denominations. Freemasonry officially believes in religious freedom and that the relationship between the individual and his God is personal, private and sacred. That is far from teachng that one religion is as good as another.

We do not apply a theological test to a anyone what we do ask is that a man believes in God and that is the only "religious test". Belief in God is faith; belief about God is theology. As freemasons we are interested in faith only and not in theology.

So is The Masonic Lodge is not a Christian fraternity, No but is a fraternity that Christians join. When the Lodge accepts a Christian, or a Jew, or a Buddhist, or a Mohammedan, it does not accept him as such, but accepts him as a man who has a common goal, that of building a better society for all.

reply to post by Simplynoone


You are welcome simplynoone, I try t be civil when I am posting.

"because a few men who are supposedly good little Christians who have joined your fraternity that means it must be ok with God and should be ok in the eyes of all believers then ? "

Hhmmm, A few men well quite a bit more than a few. At least
1,110,000 men are members of the Southern Baptist alone, as well as over 1000 of their pastors. If you would notice who I posted as Christian leaders, you would have noticed the number of mainline churches represented. As far as being ok with all believers and God, every beliver has to deside for themselves if it is right for them, and them alone. Since as my Bishop put it "it is not a doctrinal or theologic isssue." As for God, no one has the authority to speak for Him. God will judge me and no one else. What I dislike is people who believe they are the Holy Spirit and think they have the the right to judge some one elses standing wth God.

reply to post by undo


Undo ..Allah says real clearly that he has no son (I read it in their bible) ...so he cannot be the same God as the God Jeohovah who has a son named Jesus Christ ...



KH I wasnt questioning your walk with God ...my question was because a few supposed Christian pastors which you named ...are Masons or agree with them being a part of the church too ..then your suggesting it is ok with God because its ok with them ....

By the way I read what the Southern Baptist came up with on this subject .
And just because they thought it may be ok to be a part of this ...does not necessarily mean that it is ok with God ..In fact as you know there are many wolves in sheeps clothing in mainline church these days ..so that does not make them very good examples does it ?


Ok so I want waste any more of your time ..

reply to post by Simplynoone


Simplynoone,
Yeah you are correct there are many wolves in sheeps out there, and that includes in the church as well as the masonic fraternity. I would say that each and every man needs to be inspected on an individual basis. Since I do not think as a rule you can judge an entire group by one member of thsat group.

ask asny queastion you like I will do the best to answer you the best I can. Then you can check with other Masons and see what you find.