Millionare bankers threaten exodus to Mumbai if denied their six-figure bonuses.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


Good point-there is this discrepancy between the views of the middle-class and the upper-class, The middle-class tend to be anti-muslim, the upper class tend to be either anti-muslim or more likely anti-semitic-in banking and insurance they tend to be anti-semitic. The UK is a complex place generalisations are tricky-many people will be conceptually anti-muslims and theoretically have nothing against jews-but in practice dislike Jews.
Many PC types will actually dislike and exclude jews.

Originally posted by Rinorino2
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

Good point-there is this discrepancy between the views of the middle-class and the upper-class, The middle-class tend to be anti-muslim, the upper class tend to be either anti-muslim or more likely anti-semitic-in banking and insurance they tend to be anti-semitic. The UK is a complex place generalisations are tricky-many people will be conceptually anti-muslims and theoretically have nothing against jews-but in practice dislike Jews.
Many PC types will actually dislike and exclude jews.

No, I'm not really that sure about this either. Firstly, whenever you hear about anti-Muslim &c hostility, it's not a "middle-class" issue at all. I'm not sure whether you're using an American understanding of "middle-class" as opposed to a British one, but, as you're talking about issues within Britain, I think you need to stick to a British understanding of class. The reality is that much of the explicit anti-whatever ill-feeling is actually expressed by the working classes not the middle-classes or the upper-classes - and again, I'm using British readings of the terms here.

The working classes tend to actually feel more pressure when it comes to influxes of immigration. More often than not, ghettoisation of communities happens in working-class areas. These tend to be the areas where resources are tightest - whether it's housing, jobs or money in general. Whether it's true or not this competitive environment creates the belief that 'they come over here taking our houses, our jobs...' and so on. This is where the hostility and ill-feeling comes in.

In social strata where money is less of an issue, where housing is less of an issue, where employment is less of an issue, people tend not to be as threatened. Yes, there will undoubtedly be some hostility to Jews, Muslims or whoever as discrimination will be a feature of any demographic, but generally, the actual mechanisms that create wide-spread hostility aren't there.

Whilst you might try and argue that competition amongst a specific area, such as the banking system is an equally competitive environment, this particular demographic is far, far, far smaller than the working-class demographic that is potentially affected by this.

Also, if the middle and upper-classes shunned the likes of Jews, how did the idea that Jews run business and media actually take hold. If they were shunned and unable to get positions as you're suggesting, then how - according the conspiracy theories - are they controlling ostensibly middle-class industries like business and media?

EDIT: Just in case it's not clear, I'm certainly not saying racism or religious hatred is a working-class issue and the working-classes are at fault with this. Ultimately, I blame the government.

[edit on 11-10-2008 by Merriman Weir]

reply to post by Merriman Weir


Firstly, they are not in control of business or the media, however they are way more prominent in the US than in the UK. In the UK, certain elements of the establishment have gone to great lengths to minimise Jewish presence in industries like banking-this hasnt been entirely successful and there are still a fair few jews in banking in the UK-but there are many more Asians.
No Jew will get a job in London as a trader through a non-Jew-they will only be employed by other Jews who will get a start through US divisions.
Believe me if a Jew goes to a bank to get a job as a trader he will only get that job if the decision maker is a Jew or it isnt at all realised that he is a Jew.
The UK is a society where anti-semitism exists, as does philo-semitism as does complete ambivelence in this regard.
Look anti-semites were claiming jews ran the world at a time when Americans didnt let them into country-clubs. Its the same here.
Jews tend to gain acceptance at the absolute upper levels of institutions
The traders for all their bonuses are in terms of heirarchy in the middle-they are basically very lucky salesmen-you won't meet to many Alan Greenspans amongst them.
Usually a bunch of slick multiculturals-Asians with shaven heads, Chinese girls, the odd funky black guy, hard-drinking Anglos...get the drift.
They all hate jews and one of the big topics is as that the Jews make more than them-ie they make a million pounds a year for being totally dumb and just lucky-while a tiny handful of jews make ten millionpound salaries-but these guys are actually mathematical and financial whizzes.
The greatest lie is that jews have it easy or get things on a plate-probably no group makes a bigger effort and actually places massive value on education and knowledge not just looking cool.


[edit on 11-10-2008 by Rinorino2]

[edit on 11-10-2008 by Rinorino2]

I hung out for years with a group of guys that worked for these banks and broking houses and got the million pound bonuses. they were mainly Asians and many of them knew nothing about nothing. I was flat broke at the time and they would just go on and on about how rich Jews are and how we only help our own kind (absolute BS) they woukld alos never shuttup about why the Jews had the 20 million pound jobs and how it was all so unfair on them.
They were the most selfish vacuous bunch I ever met- and you know what there is an ethos in this group that I cannot put into words- a selfishness, lack of perpsective, lack of any gratitude or even decency, combined with a stupidity and a feeling of belonging to some superior club- and that people that work for regular wages are scum.
This is where bailout money is going-yet all people can do is whinge on forums.
This is one of the reasons anti-semitism peeves me, because at least the Jews in this industry have some sense of history, some depth and feeling.
If anti-semites did rid the world of jews they might be surprised at what takes their place-it may well leave them nostalgic for the Jews.

how about re-locating them all to the slopes of Mount Pinatubo...
the climates good there.
Oh, too bad if the volcano blows

Originally posted by Rinorino2
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

Firstly, they are not in control of business or the media,

I personally don't believe this to be the case either, I'm just trying to illustrate the point that there is a counterbelief to what you're claiming. I didn't start the 'Joos run the meeja!' and 'Joos are steeling our gold!' conspiracies and nor do I support them. I'm only pointing out that they exist and people will argue that case as much as you're arguing yours.

The UK is a society where anti-semitism exists, as does philo-semitism as does complete ambivelence in this regard.

Yes, some anti-Jewish feeling undeniably exists as every demographic is hated by someone, but on a general level, compared to the amount of anti-Muslim/Islamic feeling? Not a chance.

You can state, perhaps even accurately, that there is some anti-Jewish feeling amongst bankers &c, but the point I picked you up on was where you made a generalised comment about that level of antagonism and ill-will in Britain. That's not there and certainly not on the level of anti-Muslim &c feeling.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


You make some very fair points

reply to post by St Udio


Good Idea

Let them go, buy a plane ticket for them, but get them out of here!

Now! And be sure they aren't allowed back in, or are allowed to own any property or investments in the country they leave behind.


Kick them in the groin on the way out too.

reply to post by 2stepsfromtop


gee, that's a bit harsh.

ladies and gents

I agree with a lot of what you say.

I aThe vast majority of people who work in the banking industry are not well paid and do not get amazing bonuses - most of these are women who have low paid jobs and are suffering at this point, just like everyone else.

m an ex-corporate banker (not investment banker). I did not get a fantastic salary and bonuses!

I did not see any deliberate defrauding or a strategy to bleed the world dry.

What I did see with the investment banks (such as the one Bob Diamond runs) was a very short term attitude. The average investment banker changes contract every 18 months, therefore only cares about the bonus they get. This is compounded by the dominant corporate philosphy of seeking to offer shareholder value (especially amongst listed companies). I was offered the opportunity to enter investment banking - however, my issue was that I didn't like the kind of person it may turn me into.

The banking industry is split into various sections - the cash powerhouses are the investment banks where derivatives are traded and debt capital markets instruments are bought and sold. These organisations have an attitude to risk which is unique.

Corporate banks will offer standard banking services, working capital, debt, etc. These tend to be very risk averse and naturally manage their balance sheets against available cash.

Retail banks hold our personal funds and are also exceptionally risk averse.

Most banking groups now have an integrated business model where they have sought to diversify risk and revenues by having representation in each of these markets. This creates an uneasy alliance in most banks as there is a cultural unease between the businesses as to what is an acceptable level of risk and what is the best way to run a business. I worked for two integrated banking groups and there was tremendous discomfort felt by the rest of the group against the investment banking arms.

As the investment banks have tended to make the most profit over the last upcycle, there has been a shift in politics amongst most integrated banks. The investment banks undoubtedly have had the political power in most Banking Groups. Therefore, their attitude to risk has been allowed to dominate.

One of the major issues I see is the derivative market. It's so complex that unravelling it would take a huge amount of time. I would say IMO that not one of the banks can really get a handle on their true position and that is why there is still a low relative level of interbank lending.

The main issue in my mind is that there are so many transactions, so many complex positions, so much jargon and so much arrogance, that humans realistically cannot keep up with it.

There's no conspiracy in my mind...just a bunch of people who thought they were cleverer than they actually are.

I may see sympathetic to the banking system - I am not. I suffered significant sexual discrimination and saw shareholders funds being spent in lap-dancing clubs, etc. However, the system got bigger than the people and they were to arrogant to see that. They got bit.

It can only be fixed if the global community stops believing in a recession.