The Christian Lie!!!

Ok, the title is a little exaggerated, but it got your attention.
The topic is very serious however, in fact this may be one of the most important threads you'll ever read here on ATS.

I will be quoting many external sources, most of them I agree with and have only found after the fact of my own revelation.

I believe that Christians are supposed to be vegans, I also believe Yeshua was vegan, or at least a "fish vegan" (a vegan who eats fish), or some sort of Essene Order of the Nazarene or something.

I believe that the eating of animals stems from pagan roots, well, more like satanic roots.
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The Way I See It

Ok, let me explain some of this better.
From my years of studying the Bible and some non-cannonized books, one attribute about "The Adversary" has become so incredibly clear, Satan is here to kill, steal and destroy.

From a philosophical view, look at it this way, in eating meat you are in fact killing the animal,[stealing life away from the animal and destroying the animal to fufill a selfish desire.

I know, it sounds a little silly, but this was the beginning of the journey for me, starting from childhood.

In Genesis, God tells us what we are to eat, only plants are to be eaten.
After man was banished from the garden, he was still told to eat plants, but God killed two animals, to make a covering for the sins of man, God had to kill his own creation, something that hurt him deeply.

I know many of you will erroneously post scriptures saying "meat this, meat that", keep in mind that the word "meat" in the Bible is often mistranslated, it's usually talking about "food", not flesh, even the word "flesh" is misused sometimes.

When those bastards, the Nephylim, came down and started polluting the human gene pool I believe one of the evils they taught mankind is the eating of flesh, only after man left the garden did he start to eat meat, only after the flood is it actually written that he ate meat.
I believe that the eating of flesh is one of the many evils that the "Fallen Ones" taught mankind.
Animals are God's creation too, killing them, I believe, is wrong.
Eating of there flesh, I believe, is vile.
Abusing and raising animals, just to murder them and consume them, IS EVIL.


All across the earth, it is believed that eating flesh is good, that it's ok, that if your "A Good American", you'll eat a burger from Mickey D's and hate the vegans and vegetarians. It's also taught that Vegetarianism is "Evil", that it's some sorta Satanism, at least that's how they make it sound.
The truth though, you can be a Christian and be a vegan, you can be a Christian and eat meat, but to make the most out of the freedom found in Yeshua, being a vegan is best.

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I will now quote from some external sources that better summarizes some of my points, please read:

...continued on next post

Jesus and the early Christians
Was Christ a Vegetarian?

by Ted Altar

The following arguments are to be found, for the most part, in Keith Akers' very useful, A Vegetarian Sourcebook, 1989. Another sourcebook I would also highly recommend for its scholarship is Lewis Regenstein's Replenish the Earth: The History of Organized Religion's Treatment of Animals and Nature--Including the Bible's Message of Conservation and Kindness Toward Animals, 1991.

"I require mercy, not sacrifice" (Matthew 9:13 & 12:7)

This is a significant message when we remember that in the context in which this was said meat eating was commonly considered part of these sacrifices. Sacrificial offerings often entailed meat consumption and a strict reading of Leviticus 17: implies that, indeed, all meat consumption necessitated a sacrifice. Also, the noted confrontation of Jesus in the Temple suggests that he was not at all pleased by the desecration of the Temple by the money changers AND by "those who were selling oxen and sheep and pigeons" (John 2:14-15) since these animals were being sold for sacrifice before being eaten.

www.ivu.org...

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[edit on 6/10/2008 by Mirthful Me]

I dont think I really agree with all of that ...but in the book of Daniel it was pretty clear that Vegetables definately make you more spiritual and more aware .... ...meat is heavy ......and yes it is flesh and feeds the flesh ..flesh for flesh sounds creepy doesnt it lol ...

Maybe we are all as a people really bloodthirsty ..and we really should reconsider what all we are putting into our bodies .......but I love meat and would have a hard time being a Vegetarian since I really hate greens of any kind ...


The Giants were mostly all cannibals..and I am sure they started with animals and worked their way towards humans ...when animals got scarce .. ..so your theory could have some truth to it ..

Vegetarianism: Supported in the Bible

The Bible has many quotations against meat-eating as can be seen from the following: "But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it." (Genesis 9.4-5) Certainly we can see in this verse that no one was meant to live by eating the flesh and blood of others. If one did so, then he would have to pay with his own blood, as it says, "your blood of your lives will I require." This is merely a reference to the law of karma: for every animal who suffers because of you, you will also similarly suffer: "at the hand of every beast will I require it."

"To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? Saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of goats. When ye spread forth your hands, I will hide Mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear, for your hands are full of blood." (Isaiah 1.11,15)

Source:
www.stephen-knapp.com...

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[edit on 6/10/2008 by Mirthful Me]

...continued from previous post

My final thoughts are this, I was unable to find any documentation (strangely enough) that shoes evidence that meat consumption has it's roots in paganism.
One thing I know for a fact though from my studies over the years is that the killing of living creatures and consuming there flesh and sacrificing it before idols was a VERY popular thing back in ancient times.
But the Israelites sacrificed animals to God, so it must have not been such a bad thing for the Pagans to do right?
No, actually, the difference is a bit bigger than just the act of sacrificing the animal.
Most often the families that sacrificed the animal were attached deply to it, it would be the equivilant of taking your pet (cat, dog, fish, what have you) and killing it to attone for the sin you have.
It hurt the people to sacrifice the animal, but the aroma of the burning sacrifice was like a prayer of love and repentance to God. There was also a lot of symbolism behind the sacrfices too, it was symbolic of God's promise of a Saviour to mankind.
The ancient Pagan rituals of animal/human sacrifice was of bloodlust, no love for the creature was ever held.

I believe that once the Bible became corrupted by the Romans the real change, the real damage had begun to Christianity.

Now I'm not going to go into the health benifits of veganism, or tell you that you're an evil person or not a true Christian if you eat meat, but I will tell you that whatever you choose to do next after reading this, I pray you make the right descision, so I will leave you with this verse.

James 4:17 (King James Version)


17Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Star & Flag

Peace and God Bless,

-Jimmy

I don't know what the heck you are talking about; but I am no christian, nor am I a member of any other Abrahamic religion.
It is part of nature that we eat what we can eat to survive. As humans we are omnivores. When our ancestors decided to eat meat as well as veg and berries, we began to hunt animals. Hunting animals takes organization and planning. The more we hunted, the smarter we got. Eventually we got smart enough to say, "Where did we come from?" So we invented religion. And we continued to eat meat. No white bearded guy who lives in the sky ever told us to not eat meat.
I am going to eat some meat right now, just because it is delicious.

reply to post by jimmyjackblack


perhapse you should have reaserched alittle better....

why when you decide to bash christians do you quote the OT?

and why if you were going to try passing this didnt you read leviticus 11 after all you claimed you reaserched this and if your going to quote the OT Leviticus should have also been read thorougly

Leviticus 11
Clean and Unclean Food
1 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'Of all the animals that live on land, these are the ones you may eat: 3 You may eat any animal that has a split hoof completely divided and that chews the cud.
4 " 'There are some that only chew the cud or only have a split hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you. 5 The coney, [a] though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. 6 The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. 7 And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.

Leviticus 11

perhaps the title should read jews are liars? well we cant say that because its anti semitic so why not bash christians.

God explicitly states that one purpose of plants and animals was to provide food for man.

Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they? (Matt. 6:27).

Jesus goes on to say, "Do not be anxious saying, 'What shall we eat? Or what shall we drink?'...for...your heavenly Father knows that you have need for all these things." (Matt. 6:31-32).

about the only thing christians are guilty of is eating pigs, does that make us a liar?

perhaps were all going to burn in hell over a ham sandwich...

sorry if this post sounds alittle harsh but im tired of people who know little about my faith making these wild claims.

also on christians following a kohsher diet

th issue was settled at the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15; where it was determined that obedience to Mosaic rituals was not required of the followers of Jesus.

Paul pointed out that we have the full liberty to eat whatever we want to: Now the Spirit expressly says that in the latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrine of demons . . . commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. (1 Timothy 4:1, 3-5)

also Some are under subjugation to food, or to certain foods, and that is sin under the principle of 1 Corinthians 6:12: All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. Certainly, many would benefit from the attitude of self-denial and bodily discipline Paul spoke of in 1 Corinthians 9:24-27.

Yet, apart from these considerations, Christians are free to eat or not eat whatever they please - and no one should think themselves more right with God because they eat or don’t eat certain things

More on Leviticus

[edit on 6-10-2008 by Demandred]

Eating animals isn't wrong, buying them or killing them is.
Unless you enjoy murder that is.
As humans we can make choices about what we eat. Last time I checked we had a pretty wide variety of food to choose from. The problem is meat tastes good...people are addicted to it. And they dismiss the thought that maybe it is wrong to torture these poor animals and then kill them just so we can satisfy our cravings. That sounds more like animal behavior than human behavior to me. The choice is yours. Contribute to the ongoing cycle of animal torture and slaughter to satisfy your carnal desires or make the title "human" a respectable one by choosing to do the right thing.
Or you can just ignore this because out of sight is out of mind, just like the animals.

Some websites that talk about Jesus and Vegetarianism
www.geocities.com...
www.compassionatespirit.com...

reply to post by jimmyjackblack


hello Jimmy

i have to disagree

firstly, i may agree if you were talking pre flood. There is fair argument for that

however

Genesis 9:3

Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things

the chapter goes on to mention flesh with life, this is man.

there are clean and unclean and this is different

david

didnt jesus have a passover dinner with his apostles?

i believe lamb and bitter herbs was the passover meal

reply to post by jimmyjackblack

Abusing and raising animals, just to murder them and consume them, IS EVIL.

The Hebrew religion is one of nomadic herdsmen and does not make much sense otherwise.
Remember Cain was a vegan.

Eating meat has no connection to religion. Christianity or otherwise. It is the way of the world. Is lion religious? Wolf? Chimps also eat meat.
I have no problem with someone eating only vegetarian food, of course. But this ideology should not be forced on others.

Ok, if eating animals is moral, then eating humans is moral. We are omnivores after all and it would be one less mouth to feed. You say: No, that is wrong, it's murder. I say: Was it considered murder when it was a last resort for starving people? We didn't lock them up and put them in jail afterwards. So if it isn't evil then why don't we do it all the time?
Actually my point is when you have the choice-it is wrong to kill humans and the same goes for animals. And if you still havn't changed your mind then I don't want to hear you complaining when the non-vegetarian aliens invade.

reply to post by jimmyjackblack



I give you stars and a flag for being brave enough to take on such a subject. Even if it lacks evidence in some eyes, it takes confidence on what you feel about something to post it to others minds.

I for one, agree that there could be some grave confusion that has been brought on since the time of Abraham. I will make some time to posts things from scriptures and outside sources of old scriptures that might help others see why we think this could be the case.

The word meat in the Bible is actually many words being used as one meaning. Sometimes when it says meat at was meant as 'anything to eat'. Also, in genesis (ill defiantly have to do some research) but I think the herbs and nuts are told to be our meats. There is some science research that says our bodies were not meant to eat meat (also some science that says vise versa though).

The prophets did not partake of meat or wine, John the Baptist, James the Righteous and Jesus I believe ate of no meat nor drank wine. Before everyone jumps up and says Jesus ate a lamb and had wine with the last supper....IT WAS ALL SYMBOLIC. Taking of the bread/flesh/meat is symbolic that we are all a part of Christ. Our body is his, his body was ours. When we realize this, new understandings come. The wine is the soul. Partaking of the wine is partaking of the spirit within you. The story of the wine press and god walking through the winepress is symbolic of god trodding through the spirit...helping our souls transform into a new substance/body. For me, the story of the owner of the vineyards sums the wine thing up. God owned many vineyards and hired masters to care for them. At harvest time, he sends a servant to collect the harvest. The master, becoming greedy and prideful in his works of caring for the garden, kills the servant that was sent. God, then sends his son, for the master surely wont kill his son when sent. But, the son is killed. The only thing the owner can do is go and collect the harvest theeself. I see it as the servants have came, the son has came...the only one left to come is the owner. The earth is like a winepress, pressing out the light (spirit) from the dark(flesh). The grape represents a flesh body that holds wonderful juices, spirits. No light/spirit shall be lost.

I only find it important to those who seek a change in their spirit. I dare say I practiced this for a few weeks of my deepest seeking of God and this was when many phenomenal things happened. I have not stuck to this no meat thing, but I do eat very little. Twice a week at the most (weakness is bacon
:@@. I feel animals are a part of souls or something like that. I feel the whole sacrifice thing was a misleading revelation that led many astray for the demands of God. When I do eat meat, Im very conscious of blessing the flesh that I partake of. God at least knows Im aware that this meat once held life. I think awareness is the key, practicing it is for the higher/deeper seeker (if we are relating this to a spiritual thing).

Its easy to listen to the ego, the part that enjoys the 'taste' of things.

Ill come back to this thread in a bit, not sure that I can help with the evidence and facts that people like to see on here, but I back your idea that in the spiritual path, not eating meat can open ones eyes to many things. I dont think we need to be perfect...just be aware of what a PRIME way would be.

Im sorry if I sound preachy, but Im passionate about this kind of thing...souls, life, the spirit, so precious.

Blessings
LV

I know you made the title of the thread to catch attention, but it really should be more broad. I would say its a spiritual deception (that we are told to kill flesh).

Also, I know there are some who will ring in that if animals have souls, then so do plants and every other living thing. There can be a spirit in something (life) without a soul. I think souls go through a transgression of stages. Plants are the spirit before a soul. Animals are the first dwelling of a soul in matter (darkness). Humans are the next and there are more to come after our human lives. I dont think it just all ends and then we sing and rejoice for ever more.

LV

So does this include all meats and animal produce such as eggs and dairy, or just red meats or what?

What about all the sheep raised back in ancient times, were they strictly for the use of wool?

My thoughts-the animals gave us gifts, such as milk and honey.

Im unsure what I think of eggs. I guess to fully follow the thought, eggs would be life.

I put in "the messiah is" and my results were: the messiah is jesus really the only way in now is the time is a funk and dancepop