Israel expected to bomb Iran, French foreign minister says

reply to post by magicmushroom

The US openly supports and forms terrorist organisations around the World yet you still point the finger at Iran when your own back yard is full of dirty laundry. Wake up and start smelling the coffee. It does not matter who likes or dislikes Iran but it does matter if Israel initiates a nuke war that engulfs the Globe and that is the bigger picture that you should be looking at.

Well said.
Some people can't see the bigger picture though,its almost as if they're in some form of denial.

And you know like i do,that the UK drew up borders for Israel,but they were rejected in favour for the UN mandate after the Arab uprising in the 1930's.Anyways,along with these borders that created modern Israel were the borders that created the West Bank,the Gaza Strip and the Golan Heights for the Palestinian people.Land that has been under Israeli military occupation for 40yrs.Some people fail to grasp this though.


Map from 1920.


Map from 1922.


Map from 1947.


Map from 2001.



The shrinking (stealing) of Palestinian land.

Let's stop this madness



Dooper and the few of you, sort your conflicts within and stop projecting them


Israel, sort yourself out, the Zionist's and Illuminati. These fear factor enginneered genocides is not acceptable. It is BRUTAL and INHUMAN.

Zionist's and illuminati sort yourself out.


I'm saying to all of you, who are creating this human vs human conflict for false power is getting you knowhere. It's getting none of us anywhere.


I say it again, ZIONISM is falling, and the world is AWARE, of the zionist's on this thread, trying to get us to fight these wars. It's not happening anymore. So my advice, is to start getting smart and wiseing up to this fact, or else your giving yourself more room to fall.


The madness on this threads, has GOT to stop. The me vs you has ALSO GOT to stop. Kllling each other HAS REALLY GOT TO STOP.


RANT OVER

I never suggested the Irish fight anywhere. This past rant is pointless, and better placed on another forum.

This is not Zionism. This is the survival of a nation whose existence has been threatened. If Israel determines the need to bomb Iran, then I hope they do so with extreme prejudice.

Maybe the people of Iran will then cast off their hateful, spiteful, threatening, religious leadership.

Tuesday, October 21, 2008

US intelligence: Iran will be able to build first nuclear bomb by February

US intelligence’s amended estimate, that Iran will be ready to build its first bomb just one month after the next US president is sworn in, is disclosed by DEBKAfile’s Washington sources as having been relayed as a guideline to the Middle East teams of both presidential candidates, Senators John McCain and Barack Obama.

The information prompted the assertion by Democratic vice presidential nominee Joseph Biden in Seattle Sunday, Oct. 19: “It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy.”

DEBKAfile’s military sources cite the new US timeline: By late January, 2009, Iran will have accumulated enough low-grade enriched uranium (up to 5%) for its “break-out” to weapons grade (90%) material within a short time. For this, the Iranians have achieved the necessary technology. In February, they can move on to start building their first nuclear bomb.

US intelligence believes Tehran has the personnel, plans and diagrams for a bomb and has been running experiments to this end for the past two years. The UN International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna last week asked Tehran to clarify recent complex experiments they conducted in detonating nuclear materials for a weapon, but received no answer.

The same US evaluation adds that the Iranian leadership is holding off its go-ahead to start building the bomb until the last minute so as to ward off international pressure to stop at the red line.

This development together with the galloping global economic crisis will force the incoming US president to go straight into decision-making without pause on Day One in the Oval Office. He will have to determine which urgent measures can serve best for keeping a nuclear bomb out of the Islamic republic’s hands - diplomatic or military – and how to proceed if those measures fail.

His knowledge of the challenge colored Sen. Biden’s additional words in Seattle: “Remember I said it standing here if you don’t remember anything else I said. Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.”

Israel’s political and military leaders also face a tough dilemma that can no longer be put off of whether to strike Iran’s nuclear installations militarily in the next three months between US presidencies before the last window closes, or take a chance on coordination with the next president.

Waiting for the “international community” to do the job of stopping Iran, as urged by governments headed by Ariel Sharon and Ehud Olmert - and strongly advocated Tzipi Livni, foreign minister and would-be prime minister - has been a washout. Iran stands defiantly on the threshold of a nuclear weapon.

(DEBKA)

Check this out. Will Iran strike London if attacked?

Senior Iranian Official Recommends that Iran Mark London as a Target – In Order to Deter Bush from Attacking Iran in Last Months of Presidency

In an October 18, 2008 article on the Iranian website Aftab, Wahid Karimi, director of the Europe and U.S. department in Iran's Foreign Ministry, recommends that Iran mark London as a target, since it is the capital of the country that is the U.S.'s closest ally in Europe. This, says Karimi, would be with the aim of ensuring that the Bush administration does not attack Iran in its final weeks, after the U.S. presidential election next month and before Bush officially leaves office on January 20, 2009.

Following are the main points of Karimi's article:

Karimi: "The Most Appropriate Means of Deterrence that Iran Has, in Addition to a Retaliatory Operation in the [Gulf] Region, Is to Take Action against London"

"... It is clear to everyone that George Bush will remain the official president of the United States until January 20, 2009. U.S. presidents are usually adventuresome in their second terms... [among them Richard] Nixon, disgraced by the Watergate scandal; [Ronald] Reagan, with the Irangate adventure; [and Bill] Clinton, with Monica Lewinsky - and perhaps George Bush, the sitting president, will create a scandal connected to Iran's legitimate nuclear activity so as not to be left behind.

"In the past, Iran has marked as a target the U.S. military bases in the Arab countries in the Persian Gulf, so as to deter American adventurism. Shortly after that, it gave the requisite warnings regarding [a possible Iranian move to] paralyze 'the Jerusalem-occupying regime [i.e. Israel],' so as to deter American adventurism...

"Although a U.S. military attack on Iran's nuclear installations is not likely... the last two months of Bush's presidency, from late November 2008 to January 20, 2009, will be the worst possible days of his presidency [for Iran, and during them he can] exploit his power to carry out political adventurism and a ill-conceived operation. If so, how can we restrain him?

"It is possible that after the next president of the United States is determined in November - that is, [either John] McCain or [Barack] Obama - Bush and the president-elect will reach an agreement about an ill-conceived operation against Iran.

"In the worst-case scenario, George Bush may perhaps persuade the president-elect to carry out an ill-conceived operation against Iran, prior to January 20, 2009 - that is, before the regime is handed over and he ends his presence in the White House. The next president of the U.S. will have to deal with the consequences...

"If we agree that such a scenario - with America, England and Israel at its center - is conceivable, then it would seem that the most appropriate means of deterrence that Iran has, in addition to a retaliatory operation in the [Gulf] region, is to take action against London. Experience proves that the [part played] by politicians in Tel Aviv and in London, in the [fanning of the] flames against Iran and in the urging of America to strike Iran, is no less than [the part played] by Bush."

(memri.org)

reply to post by chips

US intelligence

You do realize they're only saying this because the Bush administration is backing Israel,and there's a damn good chance that whoever gets in power won't be backing them.Therefore Israel has no allies when it comes to bombing Iran.

In an October 18, 2008 article on the Iranian website Aftab, Wahid Karimi, director of the Europe and U.S. department in Iran's Foreign Ministry, recommends that Iran mark London as a target, since it is the capital of the country that is the U.S.'s closest ally in Europe. This, says Karimi, would be with the aim of ensuring that the Bush administration does not attack Iran in its final weeks, after the U.S. presidential election next month and before Bush officially leaves office on January 20, 2009.

from your source.


Do you see a problem with this?

Firstly,there is no such person as Wahid Karimi.There is a Vahid Karimi,who works at the Iranian Institute for Political and International Studies.
Manouchehr Mottaki is the Iranian Minister of Foreign Affairs,and has been since 2005.

Interesting dontcha think??





[edit on 21-10-2008 by jakyll]

reply to post by jakyll


Hey, don't shoot me. I'm just the messenger.



It stood out for me - propaganda or not - so I just thought I'd post it.

reply to post by chips


(lowering gun) Well,alright then.

Its a good post because it shows that people can say whatever they want and people believe it without double checking it.Thats why propaganda can be so simple sometimes.

Propaganda? In the years leading up to 1956, and later in 1967, threats were made that Israel was to be eliminated. Surrounding countries each time lined up their armored columns and hundreds of thousands of men.

The only way the Iranian threat is different, is that Iran is pursuing nuclear material, and the Iranian rhetoric indicates clearly their intent to get the bomb to carry out their threat.

Then they'll make other public statements to the contrary.

It takes a complete idiot to believe that Iran is not a major, impending threat to the entire region, and as specifically pointed out, Israel. Some folks don't like reality, but it doesn't change reality. And tomorrow, the situation will be the same.

The only way to prevent this genie from getting out of the bottle is to bust the bottle, genie, and all.

Really is a bit ridiculous, 7 x Isreals neighbors have tried to over run it... In that time given the palestinian conflict, LOCALLY and on it's borders the Israelis have done wrong things.

But to compare every nation in the region attempting to force it into the sea to that is absurd.

Secondly Isreal did not ask for the palestinian crisis, nor given 1.5 Billion members of Islam is there any lack of territoty for the palestinians to occupy, they share a religion and in many ways an Identity with thier neighbors (not saying that's fair entirely) just that, Irans call for the Jews to be given land in Europe is no where near as applicable as Muslims entering other muslim states would be, particulalrly considering the sheer wealth and life style of some of those states like Dubai and Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, Even Iran is, a wonderful little nation in terms of geography and lifestyle..compared to palestine

Further, Isreal has held the bomb for close to 40 years, it's the only reason the wars have stoped against Isreal, the Iranian Bombs only Intention... is to start the fight up again, it has no other use, Iran has no natural enemy in the region, Isreal will never invade it, has no history or precedent of attacking beyond it's borders, unlike it has been attacked.

And in the end your talking about, a conspiracy people believe about zionists, where Jews in total can't possible number 60 Million worldwide, let alone zionists, vs a culture of, 1.5 Billion

To claim the palestinians have no options but the "zionists" do, a people who have been displaced, dozens of times not one, is really also absurd.



I think what the REAL Issue is, there are so few Jews and they have so little power, people are willing to sacrifice them, purely because they fear a war with Islam, it becomes easy to, simply, allow them to burn and end the problem.

But dealing with Islam, like dealing with Germany before the war, Poland was just the first stop... after Isreal, (and it won't be 6 months later, Islam is patient) but next will be the Vatican and Europe

There will be immigration to the borders, conflicts will be created, nations like France will wax Islamic, others like Italy will be forced into the fight and sooner or later Vatican city will be the next contested territory one way or another...

sounds impossible?

Don't doubt it

This is a method of warfare, the Chinese practice it too, conquest by immigration...

It's an achillies heel of Europe and America

people shouldn't fall for this.

Originally posted by mopusvindictus

Secondly Isreal did not ask for the palestinian crisis, nor given 1.5 Billion members of Islam is there any lack of territoty for the palestinians to occupy, they share a religion and in many ways an Identity with thier neighbors (not saying that's fair entirely) just that, Irans call for the Jews to be given land in Europe is no where near as applicable as Muslims entering other muslim states would be, particulalrly considering the sheer wealth and life style of some of those states like Dubai and Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, Even Iran is, a wonderful little nation in terms of geography and lifestyle..compared to palestine

Why should the Palestinians have to give up their land at all? No one said that when the Germans invaded France and Poland. They made sure that those countries got their land back. Why is it ok to tell the Palestinians to go somewhere else, when we were not prepared to do it before?

The Palestinian people are not just Muslims. If they were we would be calling the them Israeli Muslims. Palestinians are made up of Christians, Muslims and Jews. They are a people that have had their homes, schools, businesses, and family forcibly taken from them. How can you people even begin to defend a group of people that are hellbent on completely overrunning a country and its people? If it was any other country doing this there would be hell to pay...oh wait, what happened in 1991 when Saddam decided he wanted Kuwait? That's right. We turn a blind eye to when Israel does it, but if anyone else tries, there will be consequences.

I think this is the crux of the entire issue. Israel has been playing the victim card for long, that even if they go on the offensive they are looked at as protecting their interests. Yet any other country that takes the same position is the aggressor and must be stopped at all costs.

reply to post by Rook1545

The Palestinian people are not just Muslims. If they were we would be calling the them Israeli Muslims. Palestinians are made up of Christians, Muslims and Jews. They are a people that have had their homes, schools, businesses, and family forcibly taken from them. How can you people even begin to defend a group of people that are hellbent on completely overrunning a country and its people?

Muslims are bad,the government said so.And because the Jews have a right to the land,God said so.

What they forget is that the land is only theres if they keep his laws,and they've failed miserably at keeping them.Therefore they have no right to it all,yet they keep playing that faith card in hopes that no one notices....and hardly anyone has.


Here's another crime to add to the long list....Harvesting Organs....something else that has been ignored for years.

The Israeli authorities normally detain the bodies of martyred Palestinians for a few days without any explanation.
The Israeli Army on December 30 killed three Palestinian boys, aged 14-15 near Khan Younis in unclear circumstances.
The army issued conflicting reports on the killing, while Palestinian sources charged that Israeli troops murdered the three unarmed boys in cold blood.
The bodies of the three boys were handed over to the Palestinians for burial on 6 January.
However, shortly before burial, Palestinian medical authorities examined the bodies and found out that the main vital organs were missing from the bodies....


"Returned from foreign labor ... without his heart." Underneath such a headline, this newspaper relates that, reduced to despair by extreme material straits, a 39-year-old Khmelnytsky resident took a job in Israel. However, the terrible news shortly arrived that he had died there of poisoning by a tainted alcoholic beverage (even though all domestic sources insist that he never drank!). The body of the unfortunate worker was returned to Ukraine for burial. However, medical experts discovered that he was missing ... his heart! At the moment, this dreadfully-inhuman affair is being investigated with the help of Interpol....

www.voicesofpalestine.org...

WARNING:the above link contains a cpl of graphic pictures.

reply to post by jakyll


Oh see that is just silly. How could you dare to show things like that. Pretty soon they will be calling you anti-semetic. Heaven forbid the truth comes out.

wow, mopusvindicus, you need a history lesson. Israel attacked in 48, 56, 67, and 82, and despite the bomb, has been in a constant state of war. The main reason for a lack of large war is the fact that the US has to basically pay for the Egyptian military to have the best equipment so it would not fight Israel. The Iranians have plenty of natural enemies, including Iraq, all of the Gulf countries, and especially Israel. Other than it's rescue of hostages at entebbe, every other act by Israel has been one of agression. They cry terrorist at people throwing rocks at them, but use missiles and helicopters to kill one man in a wheelchair (political head of Hamas). The simple fact is that Israel will fade just like South Africa did, I mean, who is dumb enough to think you can be an alien population, a minority at that, and dominate everyone around you, it's unfathomable. Not only that but I hope Iran gets the bomb and flashes it around, # the US and Nato, who has the right to say which country can't have the bomb. Considering there string of dictatorships in Pakistan can't even hold back MR. ten percent, much less the handover of nukes to real terrrorists. I mean, you bitch about Iran not throwing out it's leadership, but if it's such a dictatorship and theocracy as everyone claims, how exactly are they supposed to do that? You are just like people here who bitch about France, even though they are the reason we have our country.

Originally posted by mopusvindictus


Further, Isreal has held the bomb for close to 40 years, it's the only reason the wars have stoped against Isreal, the Iranian Bombs only Intention... is to start the fight up again, it has no other use, Iran has no natural enemy in the region, Isreal will never invade it, has no history or precedent of attacking beyond it's borders, unlike it has been attacked.

Oh boy, that is one of the most redicolous comment's I've heard in along time.. This thread has really shown up its true colours, and so has Israel "holds the bomb" for 40 years


Sorry but there is nothing anyone needs to say to that
But the only correct thing I see that you've stated that, Iran has no natural enemy, But Israel is holding a bomb and it want's to use it.

Think we know who and what problem is.

And in the end your talking about, a conspiracy people believe about zionists, where Jews in total can't possible number 60 Million worldwide, let alone zionists, vs a culture of, 1.5 Billion

Zionists do not represent every jew...........

To claim the palestinians have no options but the "zionists" do, a people who have been displaced, dozens of times not one, is really also absurd.

Zionist's are not a race, its a group of people who happen to be jewish that is all.

Palistineans are a race like jews. It's incorrect to compare Palistineans to Zionist's

I think what the REAL Issue is, there are so few Jews and they have so little power, people are willing to sacrifice them, purely because they fear a war with Islam, it becomes easy to, simply, allow them to burn and end the problem.

Ah I see, because there are so "few" Jewish that gives them the right to bomb Iran

You said that's the issue..............


[edit on 22-10-2008 by mind is the universe]

Originally posted by dooper


The only way the Iranian threat is different, is that Iran is pursuing nuclear material, and the Iranian rhetoric indicates clearly their intent to get the bomb to carry out their threat.

But Israel has the BOMB already, how come they are not a threat, even given the FACT they want to use it.

Dooper, why are making no sense again ? Israel has "nuclear material" So Iran can't have it, but Israel can

Dooper How many times have I put this comment to you, and you seem to have a real problem answering me,

It takes a complete idiot to believe that Iran is not a major, impending threat to the entire region, and as specifically pointed out, Israel. Some folks don't like reality, but it doesn't change reality. And tomorrow, the situation will be the same.

Alot of idiots think that Israel isn't a threat when it has threatned Iran to war. Hmmmm very foolish.

It's so funny that you say that Iran is but Israel isn't. Oh boy. Nonsense and trolling again I see you do best.

What were you saying again?

reply to post by Rook1545


When the name calling starts and the accusations of racism fly,then you know you're on the right path.

Its easy for the truth to be ignored when its branded anti-semitic.

I just don't understand how people can condemn certain countries,yet when shown the evidence of Israel's actions they suddenly become blind and mute.

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by Rook1545

 

When the name calling starts and the accusations of racism fly,then you know you're on the right path.

Its easy for the truth to be ignored when its branded anti-semitic.

I just don't understand how people can condemn certain countries,yet when shown the evidence of Israel's actions they suddenly become blind and mute.

Because they are the perpetual victim. Everything they have done has been condoned under the guise of "National Security". Attacking Lebanon a few years back was them defending themselves, yet fail to acknowledge the real reason it started was because Israeli operatives were caught in Lebanon. They can push the boundaries of what constitutes war activities because they play the Self Preservation card.

The activities carried out under the Jewish flag are frightening. Many Jews are scared of what Israel is doing because it is done in their name when they really want no part of it.

AMEN

that could be the best post i've seen on ATS ever

Thank you

This is no longer breaking news,Isreal will not invade/bomb Iran