Is censorship ever "right"

"Bottom line is the censorship should be left up to the parents, a reflection of their views. Unfortunately there are many parents that don't, or can't, spend the time they need with their kids, so government and special interest groups step in. What do I think of this?... "

Yeah, but....don't you love when a post starts like that....What about censoring what others don't themselves want to see and aren't ready to explain it to the kids.

For example, I used to see an old VW Van driving around town with a bumper sticker that read F*ck Censorship and of course, the all too common.. Ship Happens. I really don't want to look at that and I'm really not ready for my six-year-old to ask, "Daddy, what does FCK the only thing missing is U," mean?

Shouldn't I have the right not to be bombarded by vulgarity at some level?

You spoke of showing your son porn at age 13...as I recall, I knew pretty much all there was to know on that subject at that age anyway, but would you have done the same at 8...at 5?

At the younger ages, which I do have by the way, 10 and 8, I would tell them that I would let them know when I could explain it to them so they could understand what I say. As to the bumperstickers, seems like you either don't know what to say or can't be bothered.

Originally posted by Sargon of Agade

You spoke of showing your son porn at age 13...as I recall, I knew pretty much all there was to know on that subject at that age anyway, but would you have done the same at 8...at 5?

I remember being 6 7 8 and my best friend showing me her mom's boyfriend stack of porn magazines.
She used to show me her sex toys too.

My other friend who lived two doors down showed me his moms how to have sex book. Stuffed under her mattress.

I knew what strippers were when I was I don't know how young.
This girl in my glass wanted to be a stripper. She would do things at recess that only a stripper would do.
She was a stripper for halloween!


Kids know things, they will hide from their parents if parents don't talk about it. And it will intrigue them more because they know they shouldn't know about it.



Ex/ Madonna. My mom would make me tape over her videos when I was a little girl. She wouldn't let me watch or listen to her songs.
So when she wasn't around I would.
My bf used to listen to madonna all the time. We were only in grade 3 at the time, and did a dance routine for the talent show dancing to material girl!


Also this boy Alan in 4th grade would stand up in the middle of class and grab his crotch!
Obviously he got it from Michael Jackson because he would do the Ow thing.


Censorship doesn't work when it comes to children. They will find another way around it some way or another.



[Edited on 25-3-2004 by TrueLies]

Truelies: Censorship doesn't work when it comes to children. They will find another way around it some way or another.

Exactly True, If you won't inform your kids someone or some media outlet will. They also have to feel that they CAN talk to you. If you are flustered by a question, just tell them you will let them know. Think about how you want to discuss this thing with them, then do it. Don't say this and then put them off, they won't forget.

Yeah, but....don't you love when a post starts like that....What about censoring what others don't themselves want to see and aren't ready to explain it to the kids.

As far as what adults dont want to see, personaly I think tuff # look the other way if you cant handle it.

And while I will tend toward understanding some people in some things wishing to censor the things there childern see.......BUT 99% of the time it is just because they are to lazy or hung up themselves to take the time and energy to sit down and explain things to there kids. Most of the time a kid wont ask a question that he is not ready to have answered. I can understand some things I would not want XXX rated shows at pre-school but a flash of janets tit or the word # is not gonna turn them into drooling fiends, so get over it.

I have four kids and have basicly exposed them to the world head on. Guess what? All four are well adjusted strong intellegent people. Not a pervert in the bunch.

But what I am mainly talking about is ADULTS. If you cant handle being offended once and a while hide under your bed or something and let the rest of us live our lives. There are a lot of things that offend me too, but I take it like a man, change the channel, politly or not so politly decline to speak on the subject, look the other way, or even...... GASP..... listen to there side of things, sometimes it has made me a better person for listening.

But the key word here is I decided what I wanted to here, see, read, etc, not the government or the church or my neighbors.

And Jethro raised a good point about people taking responsabilty for the things they say, but even there where do you draw the line? Like the example of the guy wearing a shirt that said "Kill Whitey" if someone read that and went out and killed whitey would it be his fault? Should the writers of the posts claiming Jews are Ruling the world be held responsable if someone desides to stop a few of these Jews by shooting them? How about the KKK preaching that blacks should be killed?


WHENEVER you censor or try to stop people from speaking there mind you open a can of worms.

Quote by Amuk: Should the writers of the posts claiming Jews are Ruling the world be held responsable if someone desides to stop a few of these Jews by shooting them? How about the KKK preaching that blacks should be killed?


WHENEVER you censor or try to stop people from speaking there mind you open a can of worms.

Not only a can of worms but your childs mind. If they're exposed to these things and not aware of them, maybe seeds may be sown that they aren't prepared for. Some of the people that spew this rhetoric can be very persuasive. Next thing you know your kid shows up from college with a skinhead cut blasting Blacks, Jews, anyone that eats avacodoes, whatever, because they were sheltered from fact.

Like I said.



DUMMIES are ruling our country when it comes to censorship...


[Edited on 25-3-2004 by TrueLies]

Censorship is absolutely wrong in every aspect.

Why should the censors decide what I want to see and hear? The innocents? Screw the innocent. If youre a responsible person you should know when to just turn off the radio/TV and call it a day.

Most of the complaints come from mothers (probably soccer moms that are too fat and lazy to get away from their Big Mac to monitor what their kids are watching) and "righteous christians" that think by ridding the air waves of all nudity and "offensive language" the world will become one big utopia where everyone is straight, white and christian. After all, dont you know that "curse words" are the devils dictionary?

I agree, ridding the world of distasteful things is impossible.

All a child needs to end his/her innocents is to watch the nightly news of any remotely metropolitan area.

DC here is terrible to watch the news.

A grandmother was shot in the stomach and raped.

A 4 year old girl was shot dead.

These are only a few examples EVERY NIGHT.

What we shouldn't do, is lie to the kids into thinking the world is not a sick and sadistic place.

What about banning/restricting information of a sensitive nature, such as scientific info that could be used to create harm (destruction/disruptions)...info like chemical formulas that could be used as a weapon....the chemical make up of drugs.....source code for computer operating systems and secruity...plans for a nuclear bomb? what type of info IF ANY should be withheld from dissemination and why?

Jethro: What we shouldn't do, is lie to the kids into thinking the world is not a sick and sadistic place.

You ain't Krazy, Jethro, beautifully said.

Originally posted by Amuk

But what I am mainly talking about is ADULTS. If you cant handle being offended once and a while hide under your bed or something and let the rest of us live our lives. There are a lot of things that offend me too, but I take it like a man, change the channel, politly or not so politly decline to speak on the subject, look the other way, or even...... GASP..... listen to there side of things, sometimes it has made me a better person for listening.

But the key word here is I decided what I wanted to here, see, read, etc, not the government or the church or my neighbors.

And Jethro raised a good point about people taking responsabilty for the things they say, but even there where do you draw the line? Like the example of the guy wearing a shirt that said "Kill Whitey" if someone read that and went out and killed whitey would it be his fault? Should the writers of the posts claiming Jews are Ruling the world be held responsable if someone desides to stop a few of these Jews by shooting them? How about the KKK preaching that blacks should be killed?


WHENEVER you censor or try to stop people from speaking there mind you open a can of worms.

There is a difference between skinning your head and shouting kill the jews or kill the black versus having a reasonable debate on a subject that is very touchy.
There was no kill the jews on there. It should have raised informative answers.
While we are all searaching for the truth, who's to say that what we actually believe in now is the real truth??
I'd like to know other sides, doesn't mean i'm going to go around killing different races...
To be educated, is to have knowledge, to be open minded is to be wise.

Originally posted by CazMedia
What about banning/restricting information of a sensitive nature, such as scientific info that could be used to create harm (destruction/disruptions)...info like chemical formulas that could be used as a weapon....the chemical make up of drugs.....source code for computer operating systems and secruity...plans for a nuclear bomb? what type of info IF ANY should be withheld from dissemination and why?

I have a set of world books from the 50s and in them you can find step by step instrutions for making TNT, Nitro, Meth, several chemical weapons and even instrutions on how to use them. I am suprised I didnt blow up myself and half the town making homemade Naplem and bombs as a kid. Back then you could buy just about any chemical you wanted over the counter without even signing your name. Even today a quick trip to Wal-Mart is all it takes to make some pretty serious weapontry or drugs if a person was so inclined. Most of it is simple chemistry that almost anyone could do.

How do you propose to stop it? Censor high school chemistry books? Have to give fingerprints to buy gasoline? A nation wide data base on everything you read or buy? I think that last one will be a reality sooner or later if we dont wake up.

The one on computer codes I imagine is covered by business laws but I could be wrong, but even those can be got easily.

Information is NEVER the problem. It, like a Gun is totally dependent on the person welding it.

When it becomes a crime to simply KNOW something the world will be...... "1984".

I can not see myself backing ANY form of censorship among adults.

TrueLies

I did not mean to say you were speaking of killing Jews Or Blacks I have spoken to you too many times on the subject and know better.

I was just taking it a step further from resonable debate to out and out HATE speach. Where do you draw the line? Or do you? Is it a crime to merely wish someone dead? How about talking about killing someone? How about planing to kill someone?

How about if the plans are in a fictional book like "The Turner Diaries"? How about a T-shirt thats says "Kill Whitey"? How about a T-Shirt that says "Kill George Bush"? This is where the water gets a little muddy for me.


And buy YOU I mean the readers in general, everybody.

[Edited on 26-3-2004 by Amuk]

Originally posted by Amuk

How about if the plans are in a fictional book like "The Turner Diaries"? How about a T-shirt thats says "Kill Whitey"? How about a T-Shirt that says "Kill George Bush"? This is where the water gets a little muddy for me.


And buy YOU I mean the readers in general, everybody.

[Edited on 26-3-2004 by Amuk]

This is hate speech and is not protected by the Constitution. Advocating the murder of another or words likely to cause a riot is hate speech---if I remember my con law correctly.

This is hate speech and is not protected by the Constitution. Advocating the murder of another or words likely to cause a riot is hate speech---if I remember my con law correctly.

I was thinking the same but was unsure where the line was drawn. For example saying lets go kill so-and-so would be against the law but would saying something like "somebody needs to shoot him" be illegal?

And again books like the Turner Diaries are a thinly disguised "how-to" Guide to killing Miniorties. How would this be different than saying lets go shoot some Blacks, Jews, etc?

Originally posted by Amuk
TrueLies

I did not mean to say you were speaking of killing Jews Or Blacks I have spoken to you too many times on the subject and know better.
Oh honey, I know that. I just wanted to make it clear for the dummies who easily misunderstand things. You wouldn't believe how many people have SELECTIVE memory. It's scary, and really too bad.
I was just taking it a step further from resonable debate to out and out HATE speach. Where do you draw the line? Or do you? Is it a crime to merely wish someone dead? How about talking about killing someone? How about planing to kill someone?
Well I hear my husaband tell me all the time "fcuk the arabs, this world would be better off without em, he's even said it would be better if they just killed em all off because they don't do the world any good. But if you think about it he's getting his anger pushed on him through mainstream media, especially the republicans. He is republican and that is like saying, burn all the witches because they are an occult, and they put spells on people. It's not right... We were all socialized all time ago, we were barbaric, wild, or to use today's terms "sick" "evil" "aholes" ... you get the point... However, we live in a civilized nation now.... We are spoon fed to not say anything "mean" or "derogatory" about any race.............. Well you know what, some races do it, white people shouldn't say things about other races, it is DEAD WRONG to do so. But it's ok for other races to say things about white people........................... I wonder who started this.... About killing people. .. Sometimes I get reall pissed off and want to hurt someone but I k now not to. I don't want to fight, I just get pissed when something isn't fair... Yes fair... That's usually the only thing I get mad at. Inequality.......... Sometimes I think about ways to oust the government and other elite organizations, corporations ect... I would never do it, but I might have half a "criminal" mind, or in other terms, half barbaric... It's innate. Everybody is the same in their minds. It's whether or not you had had something happen to you in your life that set it off. .. Some people just "snap" if you will. ....... If you want to wear a shirt that says kill whitey go ahead, just don't be surprised if whitey comes up and kicks you in the ass when your walking down the street.... I don't want to censor that, dow hat you want, if you don't like it, don't look, or if you don't like it, then do what you feel is right, except for shut people up.... So either don't look or confront the person but don't ever try to take away their liberty...
How about if the plans are in a fictional book like "The Turner Diaries"? How about a T-shirt thats says "Kill Whitey"? How about a T-Shirt that says "Kill George Bush"? This is where the water gets a little muddy for me.



I just want to get the "truth" this world is so dillusional and people will believe what they want, I don't know if it's to shield them from whatever they fear, or they don't want to learn that everything around them is a farce... But when you find the truth on different issues, it will make you think your the crazy one!

It's nice to live in a world, that's all rosey and fluffy, but it's not...... It goes deeper then that, it's a sinister #ing world out there, and the people at the top will do anything to make you believe it's everything but...


We know nothing....... But if you search for truth, you will find it. Other's may not like it because they like the bubble they are living in, and don't want anyone to fart in it, but for those of us who are on a mission of truth, it different. We want to fart in our bubbles, just figure out how bad it really stinks.
And then find answers to some of the questions like,
What can we do about it? How can we set the truths free???




And the people who censor are the ones who say
well tell the truth if you must, but do it in a way that won't hurt others...... Like we all have to be sensitive, and politically correct..........


I understand you need to draw the line sometimes, but some issues need to be exposed as is.... The truth is so ugly, there isn't really a nice way to cover things up to make them all nice and rosey...
It's not like the people who found things are actually the "evil" ones....... They are merely exposing the truth as is....

Like my signature said before.... A is A...

[Edited on 26-3-2004 by Amuk]

[Edited on 26-3-2004 by TrueLies]

You know what else is backwards....


Secret service, NSA, CIA, the presidents right hand men, who will kill anybody who gets close enough to the truth. It's LEGAL for them do kill, but not citizens.


Just like it's ok for them to tap phones but we can't to catch a liar or whoever the idiot might be....


These guys get away with murder, rape, destroying people's homes, their careers, their finances,
but we at the bottom get thrown behind bars...

Nice equal fluffy world isn't it.

What I find interesting is that these agencies can "bug" people, outside of the law, but if you use a recording device without a persons knowledge, that's illegal, even if you are trying to uncover a wrong. It's all slanted to the government and the criminal, which makes me think that they may be one and the same.

Bingo!!

They are criminals..............

Think about our whole system, it's designed to benefit big #s, and keep us all in line, pay up our monies even though they had nothing to do with our hard work, if we don't we get fined, or worse go to jail...

Guys at the top get the biggest kickbacks, they obvious don't practice what they preach.....

And what I don't get is how EVERYBODY BUYS INTO IT!

Oi .....

I'll tell ya... So many dumbasses out there that wouldn't know what the truth is even if it hit them over the head.

It's a shame......

And yes they are all criminals.....

Look at congress' rap sheet. Research big shots at the top... They have criminal minds, some of them are sociopaths, some psychopaths, tons are narcissistic psychopaths, they all have control issues, just thinking about this is getting me pissed..

I gotta get out of here for awhile.