Police Taser sheep blocking traffic

Originally posted by TruthTellist
reply to post by xxpigxx

 

Ever heard of sheep dipping?


Google it.

One full-grown man CAN move a sheep- Even pick it up and dunk it repeatedly in a pool of water. A stick across it's ass also works. So does having a dog nearby. Even a person barking works, sheep are so stupid.

"Next option ... Tazer" - OK there....

That's beside the point. A full grown man can also pick up move a women, but that doesn't mean they should do it.

Sheep are sheared that way. They are man-handled into position by the shearer then twisted and turned while the shearer does his job.

I have personally had the unpleasant experience several times of knackering (cutting out the testicles) of male sheep. This is also a one-man job that requires man-handling the sheep.

This is how sheep are handled. There is no difference between that and grabbing the bloody thing and man-handling it off the side of the road and either tethering it or putting it in a nearby paddock and alerting the farmer (something I have also done on numerous occasions).

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by xxpigxx

 

Settle down mate, no need to get angry.

Fair enough. But it strikes me that if that many people had tried, and then waited for the police to come, that the traffic must have been stopped for sometime and therefore their would be no immediate danger to people or the animal therefore they could have called a local farmer to bring his sheepdog and round the bloody thing up. This is exactly what I would have done.

As if they have farmers on call! What would you do if all the local farmers were busy and your gun was out of bullets?

The police have better things to do other than wait around looking stupidly at a sheep while a local farmer comes with a dog.

Ewes typically weigh between 100 and 225 pounds (45–100 kg), with the larger rams between 100 and 350 pounds (45–160 kg).

How do you and the sheep dipper explain that, farmer joe? Are you really a farmer? What kind of ship did you farm? Pigmy sheep?

Like I said before in another post, you were not there and are making a great many assumptions about the situation. The article didn't tell the weight of the sheep and it's obvious that at least 5 people could not move it. How big were these men? How do you know they were capable of moving a sheep that heavy - especially one that was "moving away" as they tried to do so? How many officers did it take to carry it to the side of the road?

Everyone involved obviously did not want to, or could not pick up the sheep.

Originally posted by logician magician

As if they have farmers on call! What would you do if all the local farmers were busy and your gun was out of bullets?

I would man-handle the sheep to the nearest fence and either throw it over the fence or tether it to it. The very fact that the sheep was there at all indicates that they must have been in a farming area, and farmers deal with lost or stray animals all the time so therefore are used to these types of calls. In fact in the area I lived in when I grew up we had a specific CB frequency we used to alert each other of stray or lost animals.

The police have better things to do other than wait around looking stupidly at a sheep while a local farmer comes with a dog.

Like I said, they were obviously in a farming area so therefore help would not be that far away. Farming life is totally different from city-life mate, farmers look after each other and their livestock.

Ewes typically weigh between 100 and 225 pounds (45–100 kg), with the larger rams between 100 and 350 pounds (45–160 kg).

How do you and the sheep dipper explain that, farmer joe? Are you really a farmer? What kind of ship did you farm? Pigmy sheep?

He is correct. The weights do not vary all that much in fully grown sheep. I am not a big fellow and yet I am more than capable of picking up and moving a fully grown sheep. If the sheep proves to be too heavy it is easy to grab the woolen coat and drag it. This is a common method farmers use regularly.

it's obvious that at least 5 people could not move it.

5 inexperienced people who did not want to get their hands dirty by grabbing the thing yeah perhaps.

How big were these men? How do you know they were capable of moving a sheep that heavy - especially one that was "moving away" as they tried to do so? How many officers did it take to carry it to the side of the road?

Again, I am capable of picking up or dragging a fully grown sheep myself. I weigh 75 kg's. Shearers and farmers do it on a daily basis.

Everyone involved obviously did not want to

That's the real reason. They didn't want to dirty themselves so they would rather electrocute it.


[edit on 7/10/2008 by Kryties]

Originally posted by Kryties

I would man-handle the sheep to the nearest fence and either throw it over the fence or tether it to it.

No, I mean what would you do if you were an apprehensive police officer who had no experience with wrangling sheep, and also did not want to get dirty - but you had a taser on you and figured it was the best way to go about the situation?

You know, walk a mile in his shoes? Just because you think he made a bad decision based on your experiences doesn't make it the truth. I'm sure if he was a sheep wrangling pro like you, he wouldn't have used a taser.

Obviously you should have been there.

reply to post by logician magician


OK, fair enough. I see your point. I am coming from a point of view where I dislike the use of tasers full-stop. The thought of the poor sheep being electrocuted when so many other alternatives could have been used, to me, is rather wrong. So I guess, yes, it is just my opinion.

Soory for the angry tone.

I used to be a police officer, and get tired of reading all the crap sometimes.

I have worked accidents where a herd of cattle are crossing the expressway and caused massive accidents. I have herded cattle with my unit twice. The second time I got in trouble because the cow kicked a dent in the vehicle. That was a few months before I quit. I was not about to get out and wrestle the cow of of the expressway. Better my unit get a dent than my head. Better my unit get a dent then someone possibly dying.

What I am getting at is that we do not know all the particulars. We do know that animals can be ornery. We do know that the animal would not budge for five people. We can assume that the police officer did not have herding experience (I grew up in a farm town of 2000 people. I know crap about farming.). We know that traffic was blocked. The animal had to be moved. It got shocked, and was moved.

Better the animal get shocked then an accident happen because of the animal. Better the animal get shocked than to be hit by a vehicle. Better the animal be shocked than it being killed, or killing someone.

From what we know, I would have done the same thing.

As far as we know, all his options to get traffic flowing safely in a timely manner had been exhausted.

reply to post by xxpigxx


Fair enough. I have a question for you.....

As a former police officer, having seen and heard about some of the recent incidents involving tasering of various people (not including the sheep in this thread) such as the naked man on the ledge, the young man who had just fallen off an overpass and the young man who was trying to point out the speed sign to the officer, what is your take on those particular situations? If you are unsure of the ones I am talking about I can link the appropriate threads and video's for you.

I am just curious is all, no disrespect or anger is intended.

[edit on 7/10/2008 by Kryties]

reply to post by Kryties


There are too many possibilities.

If the stories are 100% truth, the the officers deserve to be fired and charged. But if they stories are not completely true . . .

I do think that it should be taken before a judge and jury and let them take a look at the facts . . . not just what is reported in a news story, like we get here.

Just remember . . . there are many more good cops than bad cops. When I was an officer, I found that people got into law enforcement for one of only two reasons. To help people, or for the power trip. About 85% of the officers that I knew were there to truly help people out. The other 15% were very very bad eggs. The problem is that the bad eggs are usually tied somehow to someone in power (i.e. ranking officers, chiefs, politicians) who played the same game to get into power. So the cycle continues.

You will always hear of the bad cops tasering people, kicking peoples butts, etc. you will almost never hear of the good cop giving a drunk person a ride home, or verbally disarming someone, or herding a sheep off of the road without using force.

But then again, ATSers so hate cops, that even the good ones would be vilified somehow

[edit on 7/10/2008 by xxpigxx]

reply to post by xxpigxx


I do not hate cops, in fact I am still tossing up as to whether I will apply to the Australian Police or not. My grandfather was a Detective in the Aussie Police force and worked some very famous murder cases here in Australia (not to mention he was in the Signals unit that warned of the impending attack on Pearl Harbour, in fact he was the one who figured the message out). He used to jail the crims but on the flipside he would do everything in his power to help them out once they got out, even to the point of letting them stay at his house until they got on their feet. He was the one of the last of a dying breed, according to him. He left the force when the new blood came in and he got sick of the corruption and crap that came with it.

I guess you are correct. We cannot know if we have seen the full story or not. I guess that when I see footage of a cop roughing someone up or tasing someone that did not deserve it I get angry and almost want to reach through the screen and knock the guy out. I cannot stand bullying (having been bullied at school) and injustice to the point where it makes me sick to my very core.

reply to post by Kryties


If you can stomach the politics, I say go for it! It is a fun job, and if done right, provides a great sense of gratification.

I just always followed the golden rule. Made it very very easy in my decision making.

reply to post by xxpigxx


Yeah I just might

Reminds me of a funny story from my younger years, I was arrested (not going to tell you what for ) and on the way to the station I asked the police about the job and then indicated that I would obviously have no chance of getting in now that I had been arrested and he replied something along the lines of "How do you think many of us became police? Gotta be a crim at one point to understand and catch them!" Of course I know there is a point to which that would change (ie if I murdered someone or something similar). Anyways, he ended up feeding me coffee and cigarettes all night, allowed me to sit at his desk while he processed me instead of in a cell, then gave me a lift home! It really changed my perspective of the police from that point onward.

Anyhow this is somewhat off-topic I apologise but it was interesting to get your perspective xxpigxx

[edit on 7/10/2008 by Kryties]

Originally posted by Kryties
I am coming from a point of view where I dislike the use of tasers full-stop.

Why?

reply to post by LogicalSolution


May want to edit your post to not make it a one-liner mate

I do not like them because it seems that, due to many recent cases of misuse, that they can so easily be used by the Police in the wrong way and that they have also caused death. The intended use is as a 'non-lethal' alternative yet they seem to be killing some people.

f*****g idiots
it'd only make it slower policemen should play more videogames so they don't take their anger out on people.
or sheep

Originally posted by HatFoilTin
f*****g idiots
it'd only make it slower

policemen should play more videogames so they don't take their anger out on people.
or sheep

I play many video games. Did as a cop as well.

Alot of them look down on it though. Like they are too big shot and mature to play games.

Except my sarge. He would take his laptop to work with MAME on it and play arcade games while running radar. lol

[edit on 7/10/2008 by xxpigxx]

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by LogicalSolution

 

May want to edit your post to not make it a one-liner mate

I do not like them because it seems that, due to many recent cases of misuse, that they can so easily be used by the Police in the wrong way and that they have also caused death. The intended use is as a 'non-lethal' alternative yet they seem to be killing some people.

Taser was never advertised as "non-lethal", it was advertised as "less-lethal". It also pretty much is non-lethal, unless the person getting tased has a serious/rare condition.

Drinking orange juice is also supposed to be non-lethal, but if someone is allergic to it, it's not exactly going to be good for them.


You will find that in 100% of taser-related deaths (taser-RELATED for a reason), the person who died had a pre-existing condition of some sort where they were going to die any way, and the Taser just sped the process up. 90% of the time, the reason is that the person is hopped up on so many drugs, that their heart was just waiting to implode, and the Taser lights the fuse.


Now consider this, it's estimated that a Taser is used more than 200,000 times in the USA every year by police officers. Out of 200,000 uses, you hear of maybe 1-3 Taser-related deaths a year. Let's be extremely generous and say 10 deaths.

That leaves us with only a 0.005% death rate. That's pretty safe.

Furthermore, all police officers in the USA are required to get tased themselves as part of their training. There are more than 2 million police officers in the USA (iirc). Out of all of them that have been tased, NONE of them have died or had any problems at all. That further shows that people who are in a healthy condition and not some ultra-rare medical condition are going to be fine.

Bear in mind the alternative to the Taser, is using a gun. Which has more than a 50% death rate. Now which do you think should be used?

And no, Pepper-spray is not an alternative for Tasers/Guns, it's used for an entirely different purpose. But while we're at that, you should know that more people die every year from pepper spray than they do tasers.




To sum this post up in a nut-shell, do people die because of Tasers? Yes. But guess what, people also die from drinking water. That doesn't mean it happens all the time.

-LS

Originally posted by LogicalSolution
You will find that in 100% of taser-related deaths (taser-RELATED for a reason), the person who died had a pre-existing condition of some sort where they were going to die any way, and the Taser just sped the process up.

Hang on. We all have a pre-existing condition, it's called being human. We're all going to die at some point, for some reason.

The fact that, according to you, a taser will accelerate a pre-existing condition and cause death, should be a point of concern and not something to be hand-waved away.

90% of the time, the reason is that the person is hopped up on so many drugs, that their heart was just waiting to implode, and the Taser lights the fuse.

Please supply the data to prove this claim.

Does the sheep being tased count as one of the 200,000 uses per year?

A farm animal on the road? Who better to deal with it than a pig?

Hi, just posted a new thread on Tasers, I hope its ok to put the info here as I thought you guys seemed interested in the technology. Police can now taser multiple at the same time.

www.abovetopsecret.com...&flagit=399107#