Why I Believe We Are Not Alone In The Universe – Intelligent Discussion

My stance on life might contradict others, to name a few points.

1) Extraterrestrial are living among us now.
2) Extraterrestrial live on every planet and moon in this solar system.
3) Extraterrestrials, not from the above 1 or 2 option, visit the human race all the time.
4) Extraterrestrials are incredibly abundant in the galaxy and other galaxies, and multiverses or dimensions if possible.

Just my two cents.

Why I believe we are not alone:

I always had difficulty grasping why some things in society were the way they were. Then I read The Terra Papers.

The Papers were written BEFORE Star Wars (an important thing to keep in mind while reading, mind you) as a term papers in the late 1970's by a Hopi/Apache who grew up with the Hopi. Robert Morning Sky's grandfather was part of a group that rescued an ET from a crash in 1947.

The Hopi hid the ET, Bek'Ti, from the military who showed up shortly after the rescue and nursed Bek'Ti to health. In exchange and in trust, Bek'Ti - with the aid of a hologram device - gave the Hopi the history of Earth.

It was kept hidden and taught to the next generation with the understanding that it would remain theirs in the trust that Bek'Ti gave it.

Robert was taking a course related to religions and when Von Daniken's research led him to publish Chariots of the Gods, and Robert saw that the research was very close to the history taught by Bek'Ti, he petitioned the Elders to release the history as it related to the areas Von D had covered.

Thus was written The Terra Papers.

And in time, I came to read them (they're linked in my sig). At first I nearly quit reading them, thinking I was reading some bad scifi. But the back story intrigued me and so I kept at it. And by the end, I was literally shaking from a very radical paradigm shift. Literally. Shaking.

For my WHYs had been answered. And it all made sense, this life I have.

One thing that was an issue was trying to keep up with the characters, for some had many titles and often they were used interchangeably. So taken by this work was I that I read and reread it, and also compiled a glossary to assist other readers in following it. The glossary is here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's there twice because me and the edit option had an altercation at which time a BOLD tag was incorrectly turned off... The second copy should be more usable.

Those picutes are truly facinating but on this topic I would agree I feel that you would have to be nieve to think that all those suns up there and only ours has life orbiting around it. Come on now!!!

I don't want to sound like a broke record here but like those eloquent posters before me that listed the mathematical probabilities that we are not alone, I AGREE WITH YOU! I am also a believer that we as humans were designed and we did not evolve to our current state. In every case of "evolution" that scientists give us, it is just a tiny adaptation to better suit that creature in that environment, there are usually man subspecies and very similar creatures, even though they might not be exactly the same. This is not the case with humans. There is nothing close to us. Those that would argue that we are close to apes, think, why are there still apes if we evolved from them? The better suited for survivability goes on and the loser dies off. But we still have apes...

So if we were designed, then we had to be designed by someone. Thus, we are not alone and not superior.

Humbling isn't it?

Then there is the question of what IS intelligence.

Of course we think WE are intelligent. But what of a civilization ten thousand or a million years older who stopped killing and abusing themselves so long ago that we are insignificant in comparison?

Imagine we are listening to an early simian version of the first bipedal ape-like pre-humanoid, thinking maybe they are the bar for intelligence. What would you think was true?

I believe we are pre-intelligent. When we are not threatening our own survival, defecating in our own bathwater, using each other and climbing on piles of dead bodies to get up to some illusion of power, blind to the complete transcendent beauty of the Earth, that we are just seeing what we can extract from her for profit, comfort and power, when we are beyond such behavior and sheer ignorance, only then I would consider such a label such as intelligence possible.

You must imagine that to be truly intelligent you would need to survive ignorance first.

Not there yet, but there is a chance. Our age of evolution might be the time to make the effort. If time is left.

Recognizing the gift and grace our lives are, and honoring that in all others would be a good start.

We might not get out of the nest until we make that happen.

ZG

reply to post by SuperSecretSquirrel


This is not a debate but I will be brief. The current situation for humans (homo sapiens) is unusual. For almost the entirety of human history we have shared the world with other homo species (homo neanderthelasis, homo erectus, Homo floresiensis -flores man). Neanderthals existed until about 24,000 years ago and have been proven to co-habit territories where humans were present in the same time period. Neanderthals probably had language ability (they had the Fox2 gene and voice box) and they also made advanced stone tools equivalent to ancient humans in complexity and had the ability to light fires. Flores man was almost certainly a distinct human species (notable for its small size) which existed in Indonesia until 13000 years ago or so.
This situation where man does not see any animals that are closely related has led to a strong anthromorphic character to our reasoning, because we don't have very similar species to us extant that can talk and make fire (the really major differences to the other apes IMO) we assume we are special.

[edit on 7-10-2008 by ManInAsia]

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
reply to post by Dave Rabbit

 

Hello Dave,

I know you didn't include the Helix Nebula and I'm not sure if this is relevant, but I just always found it interesting.

I've been to Yellowstone and seen "The Morning Glory" pool when I was a kid on family vacation. Later on in life after seeing a picture of the Helix Nebula, as seen by the Hubble Telescope, I could never figure out why it looked so familiar to me, then one day it hit me..."The Morning Glory" pool.

I put these pictures side by side. I've overlaid them also, but the perspectives are to far off to judge properly although when I have overlaid them, many aspects are the same. I believe them to be the same thing, but without having a direct overhead of the pool it is too difficult to judge. See what you guys think.

I've seen a few UFO's right over downtown San Diego that I honestly can't explain away to be "ours" though SD is a huge military contractor. What I saw were "burnt orange" orbs hovering directly over downtown in broad daylight. If our universe is what we are told then I don't see how others could not be out there. Enjoy

Peace

When i saw the above pictures they instantly reminded me of



from battlestar galactica.

Well, Dave, I usually use what I call The Rule of Nines. I posted it else wheres, but I am not in the mood to try and find it at the moment.

90% of all UFO phenomena is man made, black projects, private ventures, etc. This has increased over recent time.

9% is the other tenets that live here, like apartments in a building. And when one screws up, the others come a knockin'

.9% is neither of the above, but from "out there".

My estimation of the current galactic population is over a million intelligent races. That is based on 200B systems sporting around a trillion worlds.

Hundreds of thousands of those worlds have been uprooted by Eta Carinae, and they have been passing through our system for thousands of years.

edit Carinae (with an e) as in the star, opposed to constellation.

[edit on 10/7/2008 by Matyas]

It is too naive of us to think that we are all alone in this vast universe. It is freaking huge. Think of it like this we are nothing but a spot, on a spec, on a rock in a infinitely massive area with a sign that says you are here. We are really just a small part of the universe at this moment that we really have no bearing on it. There has to be some other race of beings out there who can transverse the cosmos and make intergalactic travel be as trivial as we drive to and from to work. It is too statistically impossible for it not to be.

Now, as far as them visiting us and monitoring us and such, that is probably at a minimum. We being such a primitive culture compared to them, I highly doubt that there are all these aliens picking people up and there is a mass alien presence here on Earth and possibly the Moon. There may be one or two scout groups who reports our progress and abduct the random person for testing to see how our genetics are coming and if it needs tweaking.

I personally like the Star Trek Model that Gene Roddenberry gave us with noninterference and no first contact until a certain level of technology accomplishment before they will show themselves. I am not sure if we will make first contact or if it has all read has been made by mistake or on purpose but I assure you, We are not alone.

What's surpising to me is that the thread is clearly labeled "...We Are Not Alone in the GALAXY"...

And it seems as though everyone except a few are posting about the UNIVERSE.

It's a different question.

Second, what does arrogance have to do with it? No one is saying 'they can't be out there because we're special'.

Seems to me that playing the 'arrogance' card is arguing by intimidation. Either you believe there's sentient life out there, or you're arrogant'.

Hardly. There's no evidence of sentient life upon which to base any belief.

There's some compelling hints that life may be prevalent, but only microscopic life.

There's no evidence that evolution selects for intelligence. In fact, there's some evidence it does not. Millions of years of dominance by meat-eating creatures during the Jurassic period did not lead to intelligence.

2 cents.



[edit on 7/10/2008 by Badge01]

reply to post by bubbapug1985


" 1) Extraterrestrial are living among us now. "

Sounds OK to me. I kinda think that they don't really want to openly contact us. Linda Molten Howe's work on animal mutilation is quite instructive. I feel that ET mutilates these animals as a form of a veiled threat. It's like saying "Leave us alone".

reply to post by Badge01


Your right it is a completley different question, than life in the universe and it does change everything.

Source

Size of Milky Way

The stellar disk of the Milky Way galaxy is approximately 100,000 light-years (9.5×1017 km) in diameter, and is believed to be, on average, about 1,000 ly (9.5×1015 km) thick.[8] It is estimated to contain at least 200 billion stars[9] and possibly up to 400 billion stars,[10] the exact figure depending on the number of very low-mass stars, which is highly uncertain. Extending beyond the stellar disk is a much thicker disk of gas. Recent observations indicate that the gaseous disk of the Milky Way has a thickness of around 12,000 ly (1.1×1017 km)—twice the previously accepted value.[11] As a guide to the relative physical scale of the Milky Way, if it were reduced to 130 km in diameter, the Solar System would be a mere 2 mm in width.

The above source cant tell exactly how many stars are in the Milky way "200 billion at least, could be 400 billion"

If the great brains of the science world cannot even tell exactly how many stars are in the Milky way and there huge(the stars not there brains) how can anyone say yes or no to life in it?

Our star the Sun, has 8 planets orbiting it, one of them Earth has 5-10 million forms of life on it,again the big brains cant say for sure.

The odds in favour of life in our galaxy are high, let alone the the fact that there are estimated to be 125 billion galaxies in the universe.

Again the big brains cant say for sure.

So do i think there is life in our galaxy? intelligent life? civilized life?

Im not so sure on that one its, only one out of 125 billion. but i suspect there is at least some glowing green substance that qualifies as life.

Welcome to the neighbourhood



edit for smelling and gram'a





[edit on 7-10-2008 by N.B.A.Y.S.O.H]

We are clearly not alone.

Where is the evidence?

Where isn't there evidence? Evidence is in the fact that all of mankind has numerous accounts of the "others". Evidence is in the abundance and diversity of life on this planet. Evidence is in the communications that many of us have with "others". Evidence is in the immenseness of the universit coupled with the possibility of something happening somewhere. Evidence is in the microorganisms that can survive a freezing vaccume.

But, I am not one of those people who, a few hundred years ago, would have believed that the earth was at the center of the universe either. To me, it is as obviously silly to think that earth is the only living planet as it is for me to think that I am the only living person.

(edited for goofy spelling and grammer ;-)

[edit on 7-10-2008 by bricmpt]

reply to post by bricmpt

But, I am not one of those people who, a few hundred years ago, would have believed that the earth was at the center of the universe either.

A few hundred years ago i doubt you would of been as educated as you are today.

If back then, thats what the big brains belived, then you can bet thats what the masses belived.

[edit on 7-10-2008 by N.B.A.Y.S.O.H]

reply to post by Badge01


Not trying to flame you at all. I see your point. You might note, however, that belief is a function of mental faculties that are not limited to logical deductive reasoning.

We have the capacity to think in other ways. Right brain, left brain. Art and science. Myth and fact. Yin and Yang. Truth is to be found in both and neither can invalidate the other. Perhaps a balance is best?

reply to post by N.B.A.Y.S.O.H


Not as "educated"? Perhaps so. But I think it is possible that even tribal people do not think that we are alone. I don't think it's limited to education or simple deductive reasoning.

..And what about the prediction that a big UFO will show on Oct. 14. Are most of the posters on this thread very mainstream. Seem like scientific types. Does anyone have any stroke with ET.
Can Blossom Goodnight talk to ET or is it just fantasy.
Will the US ever have another year like 2007 for sightings, with the big finale at the top of 2008 in Stephenville. Is someone in the UK operating a beacon or signal bot?

reply to post by bricmpt


Good point there is a tribe in Afrcia the Dogon tribe that ...

heres a snipit

Several specialists now claim they have found the long-sought "final evidence" of visits made to earth by ancient astronauts. The myths of the Dogon tribesmen of Mall, West Africa, contain astronomical knowledge which the native people could have neither learned by themselves nor guessed. Obviously, the researchers say, some more advanced civilization told them. These fascinating Dogon legends speak of Jupiter's four moons and Saturn's rings, which were not seen by human beings until the invention of the telescope. They speak of the star Sirius and of a pair of invisible companions. One of them circles Sirius every fifty years, the legends declare, and is made of a metal that is the heaviest thing in the universe. Astronomers have discovered that such an object (called "Sirius-B") does exist but only the most sophisticated and sensitive instruments -- unavailable, of course, to the Dogons -- can detect it." from The Sirius Mystery, by James Oberg

Source

[edit on 7-10-2008 by N.B.A.Y.S.O.H]

Originally posted by ZeroGhost
Then there is the question of what IS intelligence.

Of course we think WE are intelligent. But what of a civilization ten thousand or a million years older who stopped killing and abusing themselves so long ago that we are insignificant in comparison?

Imagine we are listening to an early simian version of the first bipedal ape-like pre-humanoid, thinking maybe they are the bar for intelligence. What would you think was true?

I believe we are pre-intelligent. When we are not threatening our own survival, defecating in our own bathwater, using each other and climbing on piles of dead bodies to get up to some illusion of power, blind to the complete transcendent beauty of the Earth, that we are just seeing what we can extract from her for profit, comfort and power, when we are beyond such behavior and sheer ignorance, only then I would consider such a label such as intelligence possible.

You must imagine that to be truly intelligent you would need to survive ignorance first.

Not there yet, but there is a chance. Our age of evolution might be the time to make the effort. If time is left.

Recognizing the gift and grace our lives are, and honoring that in all others would be a good start.

We might not get out of the nest until we make that happen.

ZG

I like this point, as it definately has some weight in terms of defining an 'intelligent' civilisation.

I would like to think that a Space-Faring civilisation is the definition of intelligence. It makes the term 'intelligent civilisation' enable us to class them as a race which can be contacted over great distances.

Of course, people may have different views.

Originally posted by ManInAsia
reply to post by SuperSecretSquirrel

 

This is not a debate but I will be brief. The current situation for humans (homo sapiens) is unusual. For almost the entirety of human history we have shared the world with other homo species (homo neanderthelasis, homo erectus, Homo floresiensis -flores man). Neanderthals existed until about 24,000 years ago and have been proven to co-habit territories where humans were present in the same time period. Neanderthals probably had language ability (they had the Fox2 gene and voice box) and they also made advanced stone tools equivalent to ancient humans in complexity and had the ability to light fires. Flores man was almost certainly a distinct human species (notable for its small size) which existed in Indonesia until 13000 years ago or so.
This situation where man does not see any animals that are closely related has led to a strong anthromorphic character to our reasoning, because we don't have very similar species to us extant that can talk and make fire (the really major differences to the other apes IMO) we assume we are special.

[edit on 7-10-2008 by ManInAsia]

This is not an evolution debate, I stated that I believe that humans were designed of genetically altered, and if we were, then there is no way that we are alone in the universe.