Yes, documents can survive a plane crash

Fossett wreckage found

We hear the argument all the time about how there's no way a hijacker's passport could have survived the WTC crash. Even though other evidence of documents survive are out there, this myth still keeps being repeated.

So here is yet another story to be added to that list.

Most of the plane's fuselage disintegrated on impact, and the engine was found several hundred feet away at an elevation of 9,700 feet, authorities said.

"It was a hard-impact crash, and he would've died instantly," said Jeff Page, emergency management coordinator for Lyon County, Nev., who assisted the search.

Searchers began combing the rugged terrain on Wednesday, two days after a hiker found Fossett's identification. The wreckage was found about a quarter-mile from where hiker Preston Morrow made his discovery Monday.

The IDs provided the first possible clue about Fossett's whereabouts since he vanished.

PIctures of the documents, which happen to be in great condition even a year later, are attached to the story.

So, to the people who keep repeating it's impossible, you can stop now.

Even though I see your point.. you are not comparing apples to apples.

Originally posted by hikix
Even though I see your point.. you are not comparing apples to apples.

Well, that's uhm, insightful?

Thanks for your opinion I guess, but the fact remains that we see so many truthers claiming this is impossible when we have numerous accounts of this not being the case. The story above just happens to continue to prove that point.

Originally posted by Soloist

So, to the people who keep repeating it's impossible, you can stop now.

Think that'll stop them? A stark example of reality? I applaud your optimistic altruism, in any event!

I think the two arguments that were made are 1) the fireball and debris fall that enveloped the wreckage was significant. The likelihhod that such a document would survive is small; and 2) what are the odds that of all the paperwork in the buildings and the plane that it would just happen to be the passport of a terrorist that they find.

But in any case, comparing the impact and wreckage of the 9/11 crashes and that of Fosset's light plane are like comparing apples and aardvarks. There was no evidence of fire in the Fosset crash and his Bellanca Decathlon would carry only 40gal of avgas when full compared to the nearly 12,000gal of the plane that hit the towers.

reply to post by jtma508

Most of the plane's fuselage disintegrated on impact, and the engine was found several hundred feet away at an elevation of 9,700 feet, authorities said.

Sounds pretty darn rough to me! Yet even $1000 cash survived, plus his license in excellent condition. This is only one example to be added to the many that others have shown. You don't have to make a direct comparison, using truther logic that we hear it should be impossible. But as we see time and time again, it's not.

You claim to have numerous accounts of documents surviving plane crashes, but you are just talking about the Fossett crash. Truth be told, you dont even know the logistics of the Fosset crash so its a poor comparison. fail....please try again

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Originally posted by Jeff Riff
You claim to have numerous accounts of documents surviving plane crashes, but you are just talking about the Fossett crash. Truth be told, you dont even know the logistics of the Fosset crash so its a poor comparison. fail....please try again

Yes, there are numerous ones where documents survived, this is another to add to that list. Truthers say it's impossible all the time, but stories like this easily disprove them.

Originally posted by N. Tesla
the plane turned into a #ing fireball. ever heard of Fahrenheit 451? the temperature that paper ignites? im sure that a fireball will ignite paper. your ignorance astounds me

Wow! Nice language!

Nice Ray Bradbury reference too, bet you thought I might be too "ignorant" to get that, eh?

You're "sure" it will ignite the paper, yet it didn't and there is no proof that it did, obviously since it survived. Hmm, who's the ignorant one again?

yes the language was unnecessary. . . this time. but the fact of the matter is that there is too much unknowns about 9/11. who are you to say that the passport wasn't planted? all i know is that if a plane becomes a fireball so does everyone and everything in it. a fireball with 12 000 pounds or liters or w.e of fuel. a fire ball with all that fuel + burning building= 1 passport of hijacker. i doubt it.


and 451 degrees Fahrenheit is the accepted value of the temperature needed to ignite paper. Bradbury did his research.

Just in! Suicide pilot throws passport out cockpit window.

Just before plane crashes into WTC.

Just a question. Where would the hyjacker put his passport?

In his jacket pocket or his pants pocket?

Originally posted by N. Tesla
who are you to say that the passport wasn't planted?

Well since there is no evidence or witnesses to ANYTHING being planted at all, I would ask where's the proof since you doubt that?

And if it were an "inside job" (lol) why would they plant a passport that according to truthers couldn't have possibly survived?

I mean to go through all the details of , how do truthers say it - "defying Newton's Laws", killing all the passengers, making the buildings come down in a new fangled way, producing holograms (for those that still hang on to that one LOL), coordinating everything with the media, and so much more...

"But dang, we'll just chuck this passport out in the street, even though it couldn't happen, noone will notice, right?"

I guess they didn't take in account all of the internet sleuths out there,eh?

reply to post by Soloist


I am sorry but was the Fossett crash the type of explosion that could take down say one of the twin towers. I hear that took immense heat and a great deal of shock to the building do to the impact explosion. Was this crash the same? Did it produce steel bending heat or a building killing explosion?

Just asking because if not, it really is not even remotely the same thing.

Originally posted by Soloist

Originally posted by N. Tesla
who are you to say that the passport wasn't planted?

Well since there is no evidence or witnesses to ANYTHING being planted at all, I would ask where's the proof since you doubt that?

And if it were an "inside job" (lol) why would they plant a passport that according to truthers couldn't have possibly survived?

I mean to go through all the details of , how do truthers say it - "defying Newton's Laws", killing all the passengers, making the buildings come down in a new fangled way, producing holograms (for those that still hang on to that one LOL), coordinating everything with the media, and so much more...

"But dang, we'll just chuck this passport out in the street, even though it couldn't happen, noone will notice, right?"

I guess they didn't take in account all of the internet sleuths out there,eh?

Who says that they found a passport on the street? The same people that are already being pinned as liars in that conspiracy scenario right? Did you see someone actually find and pick up a passport? I do not understand why you would think there would have to physically be one on the sidewalk for them to say there was. The president said he saw the first plane fly into the building and that did not happen so who knows.

Originally posted by MorningStar8741
reply to post by Soloist

 

I am sorry but was the Fossett crash the type of explosion that could take down say one of the twin towers. I hear that took immense heat and a great deal of shock to the building do to the impact explosion. Was this crash the same? Did it produce steel bending heat or a building killing explosion?

Just asking because if not, it really is not even remotely the same thing.

Well since truthers always say it's impossible, following that logic I would say it's surely the type of explosion to take out the documents,no?

Originally posted by MorningStar8741

Who says that they found a passport on the street?

Truthers say this one ALL THE TIME. It would appear you haven't been here for very long so I'm sure you haven't seen this one repeated over and over.

I do not understand why you would think there would have to physically be one on the sidewalk for them to say there was.

It doesn't matter what I think, this is what gets repeated over and again. Stick around awhile and you'll see what I mean.

The president said he saw the first plane fly into the building and that did not happen so who knows.

But of course he couldn't have possibly misspoke or simply mistaken? This president? Nah,surely not!

Apart from the passport, what other documentation is known to have survived? I recall that a 'terrorist headband' also made it through apparently unscathed. It would be a bit of a coincidence if the only matter that was not destroyed was also evidence of terrorist involvement.

But I realise that only these items would have been of interest enough to have received the attention, hence my query.

Originally posted by almighty bob
Apart from the passport, what other documentation is known to have survived? I recall that a 'terrorist headband' also made it through apparently unscathed. It would be a bit of a coincidence if the only matter that was not destroyed was also evidence of terrorist involvement.

But I realise that only these items would have been of interest enough to have received the attention, hence my query.

Unopened mail, an endorsed check,thin nylon, maps, magazines,financial statements, someone's stock portfolio, a baby picture...

Szupinka said that lighter, smaller debris probably shot into the air on the heat of a fireball that witnesses said shot several hundred feet into the air after the jetliner crashed. Then, it probably rode a wind that was blowing southeast at about 9 mph, Crowley said

Source

Thanks, that does seem pretty solid without trying to pin involvement on the farm workers who witnessed the debris cloud. I suppose you could also hypothesise that a plane with this debris on board flew over and jettisoned it, but without real foundation.

Was any similar evidence found within proximity of the impact site?