What if Jesus returned with a new identity?

Originally posted by Matrix1111

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

If we went by the 1948 date, we'd already be in the "end times". Jesus said the generation that witnesses Israel become a nation again will be the generation that witnesses the end of days.

A generation is generally 52.5 years in the Bible.

The "end of days" means an end of an era. It doesn't necessarily mean the end of the world. Remember, Jesus said he was coming without signs. So he could already be here now.

Yes, the end of the "church age", there will also be a 1,000 year reign of Christ on Earth. I know this, I didn't mean to imply the end of days was the end of the world.

And we have a specific time when he will return to Earth, 1,260 days from the abomination of desolation, they time when the antichrist will set himself up in the 3rd temple, in the holies of holies and declare himself to be God. You can mark the day on your calendar for His return to Earth with His saints behind Him.

We are told there is no warning to His return to the air to gather his saints. There is only one time when he will return to Earth, but there is also a time when the Word of God says he will return to the air to gather His saints. Are you thinking Jesus will come to Earth, resurrect the dead, rapture those still alive and we'll meet Him in the clouds then come directly back down to Earth??

That view makes no sense.

Originally posted by ben91069
Excellent post Matrix, very insightful thinking on your part. You are very good at digging to the root of the logic in the scriptures reflecting prophecy.

He will have a new name and no one will recognize him.

The parallels are significant....

Stay tuned.

[rapture those still alive and we'll meet Him in the clouds then come directly back down to Earth?]

Thats how alot of Post Tribbers and Prewrathers believe ..

Prewrathers believe the rapture occurs AFTER the MARK and before the Wrath of the Lord (Second half of the trib)..they also think they will go up then come back at the end of the 3 and 1/2 years ..

Postribbers believe at the end of the trib ..there is a rapture then they immediately come back before the thousand year reign (saints who return with Christ to defeat the devil).

I agree that it makes no sense ....

The whole purpose of the Rapture is to take his PRECIOUS BRIDE who were saved just for himself (His peculiar peoples ..his faithful remnant) out before the really bad stuff happens .....I always ask the post and prewrathers ..Who in their right mind would leave their bride down here for the wolves to devour ?And why on earth would he take his bride to battle with him ?
They wouldnt ..neither will Christ ,

Now the unfaithful ones (at least up until that rapture) in my opinion are the ones who will have to endure the TRIB and will have to die for him ...because they are in need of being purified and made white ..
The faithful have been being purified and made white all along because they were faithful to him the whole time (From the day you completely gave your heart mind and soul to him there was changes made in you (from the Holy Spirit in you) the whole time because you were WILLING).(If this has not happened to you then in my opinion you never really did give your WHOLE SELF to him ) ....there will be no need to put them through anymore than what they have already been through ..



[edit on 3-10-2008 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by Simplynoone


Well, it's partially true to rescue His bride, but in order to understand the rapture, one needs to understand the Jewish wedding ceremony.

Here

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

And we have a specific time when he will return to Earth, 1,260 days from the abomination of desolation, they time when the antichrist will set himself up in the 3rd temple, in the holies of holies and declare himself to be God. You can mark the day on your calendar for His return to Earth with His saints behind Him.

We are told there is no warning to His return to the air to gather his saints. There is only one time when he will return to Earth, but there is also a time when the Word of God says he will return to the air to gather His saints. Are you thinking Jesus will come to Earth, resurrect the dead, rapture those still alive and we'll meet Him in the clouds then come directly back down to Earth??

That view makes no sense.

A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days. -Rev. 12:1-7

I don't know how Christians decide what order the events will take place. Revelations says the new Jesus will be born on earth. Because it's the last book in the Bible, does that mean the rapture will take place first? Will the tribulations take place before or after the birth of this male child because of the order it falls within the book of Revelation. I don't know. But like I've said, his coming is like a thief in the night and he won't come with signs in the heavens. And resurrect the dead? I don't think that's a literal event either. The Bible already mentions that the dead came out of their graves at Jesus' time. I guess only people who could see spirits actually saw this event, as no other mention of them living afterwards is known. So it's hard to get a good grasp of the sequence of event considering these events may all be invisible to people who are spirit seeing. Have they taken place already? Anything is possible. I tend to believe in the non-literal view of prophecy.

Originally posted by Simplynoone

Now the unfaithful ones (at least up until that rapture) in my opinion are the ones who will have to endure the TRIB and will have to die for him ...because they are in need of being purified and made white ..
The faithful have been being purified and made white all along because they were faithful to him the whole time (From the day you completely gave your heart mind and soul to him there was changes made in you (from the Holy Spirit in you) the whole time because you were WILLING).(If this has not happened to you then in my opinion you never really did give your WHOLE SELF to him ) ....there will be no need to put them through anymore than what they have already been through ..

Would Jesus actually spare his own even after he dead in place of sinners? Didn't he tell his followers to pick up his cross and follow him. Doesn't that mean he may ask his own to sacrifice themselves for the sake of the lost? I'm not sure the heart of God or Jesus will allow anyone to go through such tribulations, if they can help it. He may have to ransom his own in order to save as many as possible. Christians are, after all, to be like Christ. That means they may be asked to give their lives for the sake of others at the time of the tribulations -- if it comes to that.

The whole idea of the tribulations means to me that Christianity (therefore Jesus) failed to save mankind.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
His people KNOW HIS VOICE ...if they have a personal relationship with him (on a daily basis ) they KNOW HIS VOICE they know HIS WAY ..they KNOW HIS PERSONALITY (Because of the Holy Spirit within them) ....they are as one ...just like you would know your very close loved one even if he or she had a complete change of identity on the outside ..you would still recognize their heart.mind and soul....

And if it turns out that he has already returned and you don't know him, what would that mean? He isn't the awaited Messiah? Or that you have a wrong impression of his "Second Coming?"

You know, all the people of Israel at Jesus' time were waiting for Elijah to return first before the Messiah came. Then he showed up as John the Baptist. ( Mat. 11:14) That caused all of Israel to reject their Messiah... down to the last disciple (Peter) who rejected Jesus in the end. (before the "rooster crowed")

Even the high priest believed his faith was so pure that if the Messiah had come, he would know it. Therefore, he sent Jesus off to be crucified for blasphemy.

Lots of lessons to learn from these events. Don't believe Christians are going to be spared anymore than God's chosen people were spared. That's fairy tale faith. The Opponent doesn't give up that easily.

HI Matrix ..

I dont know about others ..but I know SINCE I gave my life to Christ ..my life was rougher than it has ever been (In different ways than before) not to mention the really hard lessons I endured were certainly TRIBULATIONS ..and I have even been through times where my life was given up for others (even physically sort of ) . ...I also believe that the sacrifice he wants from us and the taking up of that cross ..... is GIVING OUR TIME ..our LOVE ...Our concern for others..our giving up of selves for others (spiritually speaking here) ... ..and the reaching out to the lost is ttaking up that cross ...also just telling others about the Lord is a taking up that cross persay ..we suffer redicule and scorn and we are even abused for it (I have been beaten for it even) .. .Now yes some will be required to give their PHYSICAL LIVES for him ...but the giving up of self is spiritual most of the time ...

Not all will be killed for his name sake ..not all will suffer severe persecution .
They will however endure much troubles for even knowing him ..

[A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days. -Rev. 12:1-7]

It is my opinion that the above scriptures are talking about the Jewish (literal) peoples who refuse to revere the AC .
Those are the ones who will be taken into the wilderness and protected by God during the trib ......(I could be wrong )

"Jesus Christ"
.. IF he was an actual being and NOT a composite character amalgamated from the teachings and virtues of many historical individuals into an abbreviated synopsis of experiences rolled into one man..

upon returning to the planet that crucified him.. would look down on us and say...

SCREW IT DAD...

I'm NOT going back.


THEY'RE ALL WEARING CROSSES!!!

they want to do it to me AGAIN!!!

I'm NOT goin BACK!!!





sorry.. just the way it is people....



R.I.P Bill Hicks..
(just thinkin bout Johnny, Jackie... with my NRA rile pendant lawl...)

-

reply to post by Matrix1111


I'm a pre-tribber, the ones who find the Lord during the tribulation time will be able to be martyred. We'll most likely never have that honor, there is a special reward and blessing those of us who are raptured will NEVER have the opportunity to have.

Blessed is the man that has the opportunity to give his life for the Lord.

Originally posted by Simplynoone

Not all will be killed for his name sake ..not all will suffer severe persecution .
They will however endure much troubles for even knowing him ..

I'm sure, if the Messiah is on earth, you'll find him. I think Jesus said all you have to do is knock and have ears to hear. Based on my assessment of the situation, I'm knocking.

Tribulations? They've already been going on. The first and second world wars? The 150,000,000 killed by Communism over the course of it's lifetime. The millions dying from famine or religious persecution, such as in Darfur, Sudan. Then there's poverty. Almost half the world — over three billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day. These events bring tears to God. We just don't get it. We've already been living through the tribulations. It just hasn't yet caught up to us. But if Christianity continues to reject and persecute this new Jesus with a new name, it will. Just my logical conclusion.

More poverty details:
www.globalissues.org...

According to UNICEF, 26,500-30,000 children die each day due to poverty. And they “die quietly in some of the poorest villages on earth, far removed from the scrutiny and the conscience of the world. Being meek and weak in life makes these dying multitudes even more invisible in death.

[edit on 10/3/2008 by Matrix1111]

Yes, Jesus has a new name, and it is yours.

Yes those people in the insane asylums (whom society really does not give a rat's arse for, I might add) are correct in that one has to be slightly insane, to see that Christ force which operates in all of us. No I am not being some new-ager here.

I'd like to draw your attention to a very interesting individual, named Quanah Parker. He was a Comanche chief who went from being a bloodthirsty savage to being a preacher, though he himself did not walk his mother's "Jesus Road" as he called it. The town of Quanah, Texas is named after him, due to the amazing story of his birth (he was half-scots irish and half Cherokee king) ...He said:

"The white man goes into his church and hears talk about Jesus. The Indian goes into his tipi and talks to to Jesus."

wiki: Quanah Parker


I don't believe a lot of the Jesus story as told in the gospels. I think a lot of it is veiled astrology. The core idea of astrology, is that the sun, is a lense, for the stardust it collects from the side opposite of Earth. So if Pisces is on the opposite side of the sun, those stars of Pisces send matter to the sun, which throws out solar winds and since Earth is in the house of those stars, they have the greatest effect, as they move through Earth's "house". This might seem merely just fantasy except that the age of Pisces began right when Christos, the fish, was born (or so we are led to believe) ...But the Essenne texts which John Allegro exposed, speak clearly of a purified "great leader" who had existed even as far as 200 bc.. That is a fact they don't want you to know.

He is another man to research, one of the few men who dared to publish the Dead Sea Scrolls fragments he had ben asked to translate.

John Allegro

I think everyone here who talks about dispensation, should go dispense themselves (under the care of a physician of course) some psilocybin. Either that or some peyote. At first you feel a little bit insane, but quickly you realize that the insanity is external to your own heart. When the experience is over, you'll have performed your own "secret higher initiation ritual" right in the comfort of your own brain.

Originally posted by prevenge
"Jesus Christ"
.. IF he was an actual being and NOT a composite character amalgamated from the teachings and virtues of many historical individuals into an abbreviated synopsis of experiences rolled into one man..

That's the "in" theory for the moment. While Paul may have adapted many Greek and Roman (which evolved from Egypt religions) to develop his version of Christianity, it doesn't mean Jesus didn't really live and die. Nor does it mean Jesus wasn't the Messiah. The world was transformed because of Jesus. It may have taken 2,000 years, but it is phenomenal what technological feats Judeo-Christianity has accomplished. And the fact that these technological feat are multiplying exponentially during this time is another indication to me that this new Jesus must be on earth now. That's the power of the Holy Spirit. It may be a tiny seed when planted, but watch out when it starts to take root. The potential is astronomical, if we have faith.

[I'm sure, if the Messiah is on earth, you'll find him.]
He is not on earth YET ..he is INSIDE the believer ..

[I think Jesus said all you have to do is knock and have ears to hear. Based on my assessment of the situation, I'm knocking.]
No he says HE stands at the DOOR to your HEART and it is HE WHO KNOCKS ..you just have to open that door and let him IN YOU >


[Tribulations? They've already been going on. The first and second world wars? The 150,000,000 killed by Communism over the course of it's lifetime. The millions dying from famine or religious persecution, such as in Darfur, Sudan. Then there's poverty. Almost half the world — over three billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day. These events bring tears to God. We just don't get it. We've already been living through the tribulations. It just hasn't yet caught up to us. ]
The word says that we will have TRIBULATIONS the whole time we are on earth ...but there is also a time that is THE GREAT TRIBULATION (The final seven years ) ....one that the world has NEVER SEEN BEFORE and will NEVER SEE AGAIN >.....this is the TRIBULATION that Rev speaks of ..


[But if Christianity continues to reject and persecute this new Jesus with a new name, it will. Just my logical conclusion. ]

There is no NEW JESUS ...neither is a NEW NAME of Jesus ..
(I am not sure what your talking about here anyway could you please explain >?)

There is ANOTHER JESUS (Who is NOT OUR JESUS) >.This is the spirit of ANTICHRIST (In place of Christ) the AC and or False Prophet ...and those who PREACH AND TEACH contrary to what the word of God says ..They twist scripture take it out of context etc etc ...for the purpose tO DECIEVE >.
2Cr 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].

[edit on 3-10-2008 by Simplynoone]

Hey smallpeeps .

I have been on DRUGS many times ..guess what ..of course I could see spiritual in taking them ...but it was not the RIGHT SPIRIT I was hearing and seeing ..it was all illusion ..it was not GOOD it was NOT RIGHT ..and I had HORRIBLE HORRIBLE experiences in those spiritual realms that drugs take you into .....

I had to stop trying to find spirit with physical things (Drugs,alcohol,sexual physical feel goods) etc .....thats when I found the RIGHT SPIRITUAL WORLD .
The one where GOD Is ...I sought the Lord and his spirit and it WAY SURPASSES what drugs etc can you make you feel ...and it FEELS GOOD AND IT FEELS RIGHT >>and it IS HOLY and not corrupt and is not an illusion that goes away like it does after a drug has played itself out ...

Christianity is not really big on reincarnation, per se. For the most part, it would like you to live one life, be judged as to whether you were good or bad in that life, and then go to Heaven or Hell accordingly. End of story. A lot like the ancient Egyptian religion where your heart is weighed and your afterlife fate decided by that.

Jesus returning in human form isn't generally considered. Even in Revelation, Jesus (or some kind of butt-kicking Messiah like Elijah) comes flying down from Heaven to fight a war with evil, Zoroastrian-style. But there's no indication that this is a real human-type being. It's more of a supernatural avenging angel/king of some kind than an ordinary guy.

If Christianity allowed for reincarnation, then the whole point of being righteous/ blessed/ graced kind of goes out the window. Then it would be relatively okay for a person to be a scumbag in one lifetime, since they would have plenty of other lifetimes to eventually get it right. "If at first you don't succeed..." And that's not a good business plan for a Church, which relies on the members doing things like giving them money right now and not blowing them off when things are going pretty good.

In India, reincarnation works better because you are born into a caste and there's pretty much no way out of it. Then you can hope for a "do over." But with Christianity, reincarnation can be way too good an excuse for procrastination.

As many others have said throughout ATS and i can't help but logically agree with even if Jesus returned as himself as he was 2000+ years ago he would merely be shunned by the religious of today and possibility be disgusted with the creation of the religions of today.

Also digust at how his words have been edited and censored by people who didn't even know him for their own gain.

reply to post by smallpeeps


I essentially agree with what you say. Religion does correspond to astrology. Jesus is the Piscian age. Moses was the Arian age. The new Messiah will be of the Aquarian age.

I also agree with Allegro connecting the Essenes with Jesus.

Allegro believed that Essenism was the matrix of Christianity. He suggested that there were so many correspondences between the scroll texts and the New Testament — words and phrases, beliefs and practices, Messianic leadership, a teacher who was persecuted and possibly crucified — that he thought the derivation obvious. This brought him into conflict with the Catholic priests on the editing team, and with most church spokesmen, who maintained the orthodox assumption that the arrival of Jesus was the unique, historical, God-given event described in the Gospels. Allegro also started to look in more depth at the way the New Testament appeared to weave together a mix of folklore, myth, incantation and history.

It just makes logical sense that, if Jesus was the Messiah, he would go to the true holders of the Jewish priesthood (Zadokite) to be educated and anointed. Their leaders were originally the priesthood lineage until the Maccabbees took over and set their own priesthood (Hasmoneans) -- which wasn't exactly a "kosher" thing to do.

I'm not sure why Allegro decided Jesus was a "drug-induced" composite picture of a Messiah dreamed up by early Christians. But drugs theory may have some basis in that one of the ingredients of Temple incense or Temple anointing oil is supposedly cannibis. The other connection is that it is through the "third eye" (pineal gland) that religious (hyper-dimensional)experience takes place. While it's a legitimate theory worth exploring, I think Allegro doesn't quite have all the dots connected. But the pineal gland is an important key to man's full enlightenment (connection to God). And it explains why the mentally ill (who happen to have their pineal gland stuck open) have the Jesus experience. We are after all made in God's image and should have Christ consciousness naturally flowing through us.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
[I'm sure, if the Messiah is on earth, you'll find him.]
He is not on earth YET ..he is INSIDE the believer ..

[I think Jesus said all you have to do is knock and have ears to hear. Based on my assessment of the situation, I'm knocking.]
No he says HE stands at the DOOR to your HEART and it is HE WHO KNOCKS ..you just have to open that door and let him IN YOU >

You're right. You make a better Christian than me.

"Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." -Rev. 3:20-22

[Tribulations? They've already been going on. The first and second world wars? The 150,000,000 killed by Communism over the course of it's lifetime. The millions dying from famine or religious persecution, such as in Darfur, Sudan. Then there's poverty. Almost half the world — over three billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day. These events bring tears to God. We just don't get it. We've already been living through the tribulations. It just hasn't yet caught up to us. ]
The word says that we will have TRIBULATIONS the whole time we are on earth ...but there is also a time that is THE GREAT TRIBULATION (The final seven years ) ....one that the world has NEVER SEEN BEFORE and will NEVER SEE AGAIN >.....this is the TRIBULATION that Rev speaks of ..

Perhaps this new Messiah has altered the course of history so that this GREAT TRIBULATION can be avoided. Or maybe Christianity has set such a bad condition by not recognizing their Messiah, and persecuting him, that this GREAT TRIBULATION is inevitable. I don't know. I'm hopeful and prefer the former scenario.

Btw, according to Quantum Physics, we create our own future. Think negatively and you create negativity. We are just beginning to glimpse the inherent power waiting to be tapped within each of us.

There is ANOTHER JESUS (Who is NOT OUR JESUS) >.This is the spirit of ANTICHRIST (In place of Christ) the AC and or False Prophet ...and those who PREACH AND TEACH contrary to what the word of God says ..They twist scripture take it out of context etc etc ...for the purpose tO DECIEVE >.
2Cr 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].

This passage parallels Galatians 1:11-12

"I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."

As we read further in Galatians, he testifies he:

"...I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was..." (Gal. 1:15)

In the next chapter, Paul brags about having another gospel that conflicts with that of the apostles, specifically that of James and Peter:

"Fourteen years later I went up again to Jerusalem...I went in response to a revelation and set before them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. But I did this privately to those who seemed to be leaders. (Peter, James)... James, Peter and John, those reputed to be pillars... When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong."

It's obvious to me that Paul was creating his own version of Christianity. Jesus had given authority to Peter and James (as James was head of the Jerusalem church and Peter reported to James). Yet, Paul was in opposition to them, both in front of them and behind their backs. Paul was a renegade. Yet, he's saying his gospel should be followed and that of the apostles should be rejected? What does this say about Christianity?

So who's gospel was deceiving others? Paul's or James. It's debate that is of great interests to many theologian today.

Ebionites
en.wikipedia.org...

Ironic that Paul is saying Christians should obey his instructions while he himself couldn't obey the apostle's instructions.


[edit on 10/3/2008 by Matrix1111]