Does fate exist?

Yes, I know: it's such a simplistic question...
I stumbled upon it (again) while trying to carve some time for the elaboration of my thoughts about retrocausality (another thread).

And I actually have an idea (= a core intuition, based on my life experience) about the way it may work.

But I really want to hear your thoughts - YOUR thoughts, not your guru's, church elders', other people's thoughts - about it, if anyone has the time and the inclination to talk about it.

Thanks.

I think it does.

But, I also think that the decisions we make concerning what is already "destined to be" in our lives can change what our fate ultimately is....for the positive or the negative.

JMO...

I really don't see how fate can exist. There are so many variables in life. We make so many decisions - some good, some bad - that have a massive effect on our future life without even realising it.

To believe that this is destined to happen is just too much for me.

Life is just a series of random events and events that we make happen through our choices.

Fate is a nice idea and also a bit of a cop out if you ask me.

It's easy to say "I'm outta work and skint but I guess it's fate."

It's not easy to say "I shoulda worked harder. I shoulda met that deadline. I shoulda gone to class."

Fate can be an excuse. Fate can be a comfort.

Just like something or someone else I could mention...

Peace,

MGGG

edit to add: my profile says I'm offline...

Is that fate telling me not to post anymore? LOL

[edit on 1-10-2008 by machinegun_go_go]

Fate are the bound things come. Not all things are bound though. Certain thing are bound, certain things are not. It is certain fate for or against everyone.

Though it may sound counterintuitive I believe in fate but not coincidence.

For example, I believe that if you meet someone under extrordinary circumstances that you would not normally meet then this is fate and not just coincidence or blind chance.

I don't believe in coincidence anymore. I think that people have control over their lives. People bring the events they experience upon themselves. The only variable is whether they do it consciously or subconsciously; whether they are aware of what they are doing or not.

So I think fate is basically someone bringing their conscious or subconscious thoughts into their physical life.

It's not that there is no fate; it's that you make your own.

All of this IMHO, of course

reply to post by Mabus


Mabus,

You lost me there dude? Care to elaborate?

Are you saying that our ultimate 'destination' in life is ascertained and it's how we get there that's down to us?

If you're referring to death as this ultimate 'destination' to which I refer, then I concur - you are correct. Otherwise, I am still confused.

Peace,

MGGG

reply to post by machinegun_go_go


I don't think that our whole lives are predetermined for us before we are born, but I do think that there are certain things that we are predestined to do:

Live
Pay Taxes
Die



On a more serious note, though, instead of looking at life like a series of meaningless nothingness, I think it is more of a test. If it is a test, then some of the obstacles we come across, and have to make choices about, have been predetermined for us by something.

I think some of the little things and a few of the big things are predetermined (meaning things we have no control over), but the majority of it is the choices we make.

Interesting viewpoint skeptic1.

But what.who do you propose these things are directed by? Being an atheist, that's why I have such a hard time with the idea of things being preordained.

I'm just hoping the atheist bashing doesn't start now...

BTW, may amend your Birth, Taxes, Death to:

Birth,
School,
Metallica,
Death.




Peace, MGGG

S&F coz I like the thread.

well im going to go with your fate is based on your decisions.
So, i guess you could say a fate is chosen from the day your born, but that doesnt me you cant change your fate.
your decisions and others truely effect your life and your fate.
The way i see fate is
This is how it will be, and this is how it will go cause of bla bla bla
but really as a true believer in karma, im going to go ahead and say karma truely decides and weaves your fate,

reply to post by machinegun_go_go


I have no idea.....that is why I did not put a name, gender, or even person-like equivalent to the "something". I don't want to get "fate" confused or tangled up with "faith".

Fate is defined by destiny, controlled by free will, and explained by karma. (I like that definition, BTW....).

And, since destiny is actually a predetermined set of events, and fate is controlled by free will.....

Then, maybe fate does exist because it is determined by the choices we make about our destiny??? Our fate is the end result of the choices we make, of our own free will, to a set of predetermined events.

Of course, then you have to ask does destiny exist and if so, who or what sets the course of life for us? And, the answer to that is way above my pay grade.

Now I have confused myself and have a little headache.....

Interesting thread

I believe in Fate, as in genes have a memory (if you believe in previous lives) and spur everyone to develop towards your Fate...(i think everyone has something to fulfill each lifetime)

I believe in free will too, as in free to choose in each moment which way to go...which causes Karma....

if you choose this way something happens (bad) if you had chosen the other way something good happens or just the expected result....
but it could also be that you had to choose one way or just no opportunity to choose and just go along with it, then that last one i consider as a part of the Fate-road ...

The other where you could have choosen, it is Karma in the moment and you can develop from there again and again and again .....and if you don't choose the right way then you get the lessons delivered again and again untill you finally see what it is meant for....thus spiritual growth can take place....

ahh well, i hope it's readable ...those were my 2 cents

I believe in fate.
However I believe that one carves his own path in life and can change his fate.

To a limited extent at least, as ultimately there will most likely be a losing battle to be fought, which is when 'fate' kicks in, and you have to accept your loss.

I see fate as the end game, the final destination. Which for the average human would probably be death.

However if you happen to run into a criminal intent on killing you, that would not be the ''end-game'' fate. That would all depend on your actions.

Funny isn't it.

I'm practically living to die, as all I am doing these days is waiting for my 'fate'.

[edit on 1/10/08 by -0mega-]

my profile says I'm offline...

Is that fate telling me not to post anymore? LOL

And I am being told that the thread has 11 (eleven) replies - yet it has not received a single "view"! (Maybe that's fate telling me that I should have placed this in the "Paranormal" section? )

I have more to say than this - just not right now, because it's very late where I am.
I'll be back.

Originally posted by -0mega-

as ultimately there will most likely be a losing battle to be fought, which is when 'fate' kicks in, and you have to accept your loss.

Yes, that's just it.
I don't know, of course, whether this is really true, but it was this sort of thoughts (prompted by situations irrelevant at this point) what compelled me to voice this question.

Only, I don' think »death« (BTW, I am not at all convinced that it is inevitable – and you're welcome to think I am a fruit loop ) is necessarily the final, the ultimate »enemy« here.
(Nor do you, if I understood correctly the implications of your reply.)

On the other hand... what about all those secret yearnings that seem to have come from nowhere – that seem practically »inborn«?
Only some can be attributed (however speculatively) to influences too early to be present at a conscious level.
There ARE others that seem to be somehow an integral part of the »baggage« that we bring into this world.
(A long time ago, when I relied on my rational mind only, I used to think we were »blank slates«; I don't anymore. And I don't mean past lives, not in the sense it i usually discussed, i.e. in terms of reincarnation.)

Anyway, those »yearnings« (and I am NOT speaking about simple »desires«, or »needs«), those (actual) fleeting visions of a future that I am sure many – possibly not all – people have... what about them?
How valid are they as a »compass«, as a guide to which we should align? Because the truth is, they sometimes feel VERY relevant, fatefully relevant, if you'll excuse the pun – and yet, very often they end up being »overpowered« - or simply »ignored« - by a totally different course of events.

And the same goes for fears, apparent »presentiments« of unpleasant situations (in the distant future – I am not talking about the immediate future, where they could be simply a subconscious or even conscious acknowledgment of things that could go wrong in a currently evolving situation). "Memories" of deep sadness - from a future that is yet to be.
(Or is it?)

Where do THEY come from?

I am not sure this is even intelligible to anyone outside myself...
And, as I said in my OP, I do have a viewpoint on this, but I'll leave it for later on.

BTW, I replied to this post only – for the moment being – because it resonated very directly with the specific train of thoughts that brought me here tonight.
It doesn't mean that I don't find the other replies »uninteresting« or anything. It just means it's late.
And I will be back.

In the meantime – thank you so much, everyone.







[edit on 1-10-2008 by Vanitas]

reply to post by Vanitas


I suppose my previous really WAS unintelligible...?
Sorry about that.

I'll try and describe those fragments of "future" experiences in some other way.
But not today.

As for my personal view... I sometimes think that the role of "fate" - a somehow predetermined (by various factors, difficult to identify) course of events - may be greater than I thought, certanly greater than I would wish it to be.
(Although I agree 100% with those who say that belief in fate is a great consolation. Of course it is. I actually envy those who believe in it - like devout Muslims, for example. Do read the wonderful ancient story of the "meeting in Samarra", if you haven't done so already. )

But I do feel, always have, that this particular "caleidoscope" called our life is just one among several - perhaps innumerable? - available to us.

Strange.
This is one of the topics that concern me the most, and yet - even being used to writing - I find it very difficult to express my thoughts about it.

I'll give it another try some other time.

I believe in fate 100%. I think that everything happens for a reason. Divine plan? Unsure. I'm on the fence of believing in God, but I tend to lean more towards him not existing.

I like Greek mythology, I'm not a buff or anything, so please forgive me if this is incorrect, but I think there are the three Fate sisters? I really like the idea of them weaving through everyone's life and watching them. I believe even the Gods feared them as they too were subject to their decisions, which just goes to show how powerful fate really is.

I dont know if i believe in fate, even if it did exist how would you know you may think you are changing your fate by doing something but that may be what "fate" intended all along. I think that everything you have in life you earned if you studied for a test and got a good grade didn't you earn it? I don't believe in fate just coincidences

Hmm...
well my thoughts are this.
Fate can't exist. and it can. We live in a life of retrospection. so If I believe that everything happens for a reason (not cause and effect) but that everything has already been set in motion so that 20 years down the line, there is absolutely no other outcome possible, then I have already made up my mind.

It's not a matter if there could have been another outcome, Its a matter of accepting after it has happened that there could be no other outcome - fate. But If I believe in randomness, or that somethings just come down to chance, then yeah, fate can't exist, I would always accept the possibility of an alternative outcome because of chance.

My personal belief: (as of right now) Humans are fated - I believe in a purpose in everything - in which my perception of that purpose almost irrelevant - for I am not allowed to see the big picture, but I can only put faith in my beliefs to create good in the future, and that I may never fully understand why anything ever really happens.

reply to post by Vanitas


Hmm. I say meetings can be fated. It's funny how certain people show up in your life just when you need them. Or how someone seems to know you need to talk or whatever.

I say past just bumping into a person, it's up to those two people what they do.

But who knows really. More important to be aware of the other stuff, but concentrate on improving our physical life.

Originally posted by machinegun_go_go
I really don't see how fate can exist.

In principle, I agree with your assessment (and I wish I could quote the entire post, but it would be too long).
But the reason why I even began mulling over this question is the many experiences I've had with what could only be called (adequately, that is) "precognition".

I understand how difficult it must be for anyone (in general; I do not - and could not - mean you specifically) who has not had such experiences to gauge their impact. But to ignore them, in my case, would amount to recklessness, or worse.

In the year or so since I started this thread, however, I've had additional experiences that seem to be confirming another hunch I've been having for a few years now: that, perhaps, our individual time lines really do branch out into a myriad of paths; and perhaps each of these paths are "static", i.e. more or less predetermined. But the branching out, of course, is endlessly dynamic.

So in that sense it would seem that, yes, fate exists - and no, it does not exist, all at the same time.

(Believe me, I can easily perceive how airy-fairy this line of thinking may appear - fuzzy enough to dissuade many people from pursuing a serious conversation in this direction.
But of course, I also owe it to myself to take my experiences very seriously and give them all the consideration they deserve.)

Furthermore, I have been thinking for a long time now that, perhaps, our individual "universes" could be FAR more individualised - i.e. obeying to highly personal (almost - but not quite - solipsist) dynamics - than previously thought or imagined, certainly by mainstream quantum physics.


N.B. I do hope you people are still around and available to resume this conversation in the first place...






[edit on 25-10-2009 by Vanitas]