Group shouted at death fall youth

1 anonymous user posted that he was there...I am perplexed.

Aside from the boy's unfortunate death...who were the people shouting "jump"?

It is a sad event, and I am not trying to make light of the incident...but at a height that could have killed someone, it could be said that what was yelled from the crowd was mis-understood? Perhaps some people yelled "don't jump"?

Seriously, anyone in thier right mind who was there, and allowed for people to yell "jump" to someone who was obviously in pain, should have just beaten some folks @$$3$! Just my opinion.

Originally posted by andy1033
reply to post by 19DCW71

 

I agree with some of what you said. I do not believe that many of us are actually born knowing right from wrong, like they tell us. If people really knew right from wrong, they would not be doing what they are doing, and this just showed up this society for what it is.

I have to disagree. We are born of the spirit which guides us to know right from wrong. Only problem is that some spirits are very weak and the world they live in around them contributes and feeds that energy. If you were a child brought up w/out love and guidance, in a horrible setting, your spirit will be weak and easily corrupted.

NOTurTypical.

..... is right about demon influence and possesion. They are constantly and consistantly whispering in your ear and trying to persuade you and your thoughts and reasoning. Trying to make you believe it’s your thought and will you are performing. People's judgement is so clouded and distracted through planned tactics to keep us from making that connection to GOD.

Not here to change anyone's opinion or beliefs just stating what I know. Not to derail the thread either. So in the name of this Youth, may he rest in the Loving arms of GOD.

Those of you who don't believe in GOD. You can just be a little more compassionate next time you see someone who is truly hurting and in need of help. Sometimes just a kind word is enough to change a person’s life for the better.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


You should have tried to at least talk to this kid. I know it's easier said than done and don't know the layout of the scene, but I'm not the type of guy to bother w/situations unless they're drastic life changing events. If I had to Knock out the cop scale/climb the side of the building to get to him, I would have at least tried. All I would of been thinking about was my children and knowing what it was like to feel this way at one time.

It truly sickens me what this immoral corrupt world has become.I hope and pray I'm alive to see the mighty hand of GOD retake this world so I can see the expressions of all those who denied him and commtted immoral acts/without compassion for there fellow humans.

Humans truly are naive, lacking common sense and are dumber than a bag of hammers.

Ungh, all this "God did it" and "It's the devils fault" stuff is incredibly counter productive.
Placing the blame for a problem on a deity doesn't fix the problem.
It distracts from the problem.

Yes, upbringing has allot to do with the psychological issues these people face... but no god is going to fix that for you, no matter how hard you pray.


So, please everyone, come up off your knees, and join the rest of us in figuring out the sociological causes for the actions of these people... not some lame excuse of "god did it." or, "He's demonically influenced".

One hand working is worth infinitely more than a world of hands clasped in prayer.
Heck, I'd take a quadruple amputee helping me out over someone praying for me any day.


Now as for the causes of a mob of people willing to persuade an individual to jump, the urge to do harm to the select few has been around as long as we've recorded our histories... thousands of years.
The root cause of this is embedded in what you might understand as natural selection. Those that aren't quite right in the minds of the pack, are excluded.
It's not a nice way of looking at things, as today's morality that we hold so dear is in direct conflict with the primitive desire to exclude differences.

Innocent children do this naturally. Without any external influence applied. They form groups with others like them, and exclude anyone who doesn't fit into what they believe to be "right".
What's "right" to the children is ultimately defined by the majority of the group, and isn't always visible.
Sometimes the differences used for exclusion from the group can be based on race, attitude, dress style, hair color, etc... the range is wide. But the MOST COMMON exclusion is due to the victims own depression.

It is very common to see, not only in children, but in grown adults, the exclusion of a depressed member.
When a stranger sits beside you at a bar... you have two sides that typically confront you... that which has been bred into you (exclusion) and that which you have been raised to understand (community).

The community side of you will often come in the form of your conscience. It will have you console the person sobbing beside you.
The exclusion side of you will want to simply walk away, "not my problem, why should I care?"
Of course, sociopaths and others who have damaged consciences might also console their sobbing neighbor, but they will ultimately have ulterior reasons.

Now back to exclusion and community.
... back to the school yard scenario.

Those children who have formed an exclusive group will often be seen taunting the few who they've deemed to be outcasts... or would be outcasts if they were originally part of the group.

Fortunately, this inherent behavior isn't all bad... as within that group, they are starting to understand community values. It's not quite noticeable yet, but it will be as time progresses.

As the children one by one begin finding their own independent differences, so too shall they notice the differences of those within the group. Some will be outcast from the group, some will leave voluntarily... but eventually, with the dwindling numbers of the group becoming ever smaller, the group has to recognize that for it to survive, it must set aside these minor differences.

This is the formation of community. They begin to understand that it's necessary to support one another regardless of their differences, attitude, etc.

Remember me saying depression is a common difference for which you can be excluded from a group and taunted for?

Well that's exactly what happened here... the group, (mob), noticing a depressed individual naturally resorted to exclusion tactics upon seeing the depressed individual.

These people who were taunting the teen to jump, have not undergone that last step from exclusive group, to community.

THAT, is what you need to be focusing on.

Children need to come to terms with their differences. Don't hide them from them... regardless of what those differences are. Don't pretend your child still fits in... let them know it's time to leave the group, if the group is shunning the child.

When a child tells you of another childs differences and mocks them... point out one of their own flaws and make sure they realize that they too are flawed. They need to know that everyone in the group is flawed.

Of course, all this sounds touchy feely when we put it in terms of a childs growth... but later on in life, if they don't break away from the exclusive pack understanding to a more broader community understanding of life... their natural desire to exclude will manifest itself as some other rather ugly traits.
Fascism is a prime example of this.

These people taunting the jumper to jump... is another.

Originally posted by johnsky
Ungh, all this "God did it" and "It's the devils fault" stuff is incredibly counter productive.
Placing the blame for a problem on a deity doesn't fix the problem.
It distracts from the problem.

Yes, upbringing has allot to do with the psychological issues these people face... but no god is going to fix that for you, no matter how hard you pray.


So, please everyone, come up off your knees, and join the rest of us in figuring out the sociological causes for the actions of these people... not some lame excuse of "god did it." or, "He's demonically influenced".

Nobody accussed any deity of doing it. I simply stated INFLUENCE.
You mean to tell me you believe that everyone in that crowd was pursuaded by pack mentality. If you believe that then that is simply pathetic in my eyes for one reason.

A crowd made up of individuals of all ages and all different backgrounds and educations, yet don't have the knowledge,wisdom or self restraint to think or act for themselves.If this is the case then these are the individuals who need to cease to exist because they are the counter productive ones, not the ones praying.

One hand working is worth infinitely more than a world of hands clasped in prayer.
Heck, I'd take a quadruple amputee helping me out over someone praying for me any day.

That is honestly just a ridiculous statement aimed to poke at religous beliefs and that's fine. For starters people don't just pray and do absolutely nothing else. I build houses for a living, that people like you live in, to stay sheltered from the elements. I also fix cars, weld and do numerous other things that contribute to society.

Have a quadrupple amputee help you next time your car breaks down in the middle of nowhere, or need a new roof after a tree falls on your house. I'm sure there are multitudes of these people w/the skills required to accomplish these tasks.

[edit on 1-10-2008 by 19DCW71]

Originally posted by johnsky
So, please everyone, come up off your knees, and join the rest of us in figuring out the sociological causes for the actions of these people... not some lame excuse of "god did it." or, "He's demonically influenced".

From your words you make it sound as though you and the rest of America are on a crusade to figure out as you state, "the sociological causes". If you ask me people ARE the cause.

Did you not just alienate me for my beliefs? Besides totally misinterpereting my post and what I said. And you're supposed to be an adult (on your crusade to solve this problem) part of the cause. I never said HE was possesed or influenced. Re read before the sarcastic comments are made.

Communication and understanding are the solution.Human interaction. I got hte answer through prayer and life experiences. Now you and the rest of America (who are on this crusade to solve this problem) have to look no further. Your Welcome too, for the answer.Anytime





[edit on 1-10-2008 by 19DCW71]

Originally posted by johnsky
Placing the blame for a problem on a deity doesn't fix the problem.
It distracts from the problem.

I agree, it is more than a little creepy. It gives the impression that if some folks ruled the world the treatment for suicidal individuals (or anyone with mental problems for that matter) might be to hold them down and start praying to send the "evil demons" away. Course if prayer alone didn't work them maybe rougher tactics would be in order, can't let those demons get the upper hand.

That is a scary mindset.

[edit on 1-10-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by johnsky
Placing the blame for a problem on a deity doesn't fix the problem.
It distracts from the problem.

I agree, it is more than a little creepy. It gives the impression that if some folks ruled the world the treatment for suicidal individuals (or anyone with mental problems for that matter) might be to hold them down and start praying to send the "evil demons" away. Course if prayer alone didn't work them maybe rougher tactics would be in order, can't let those demons get the upper hand.

That is a scary mindset.

[edit on 1-10-2008 by Sonya610]

The scary mindset is not reading, or not comprehending the post and commenting about it. Nobody ever said to pray over someone.I said say a prayer for him and his family.And people should of had compassion and emraced him, not taunted him. Prayer is also a form of meditation and relaxation which gives a little insight into life and opens doors of the mind which were clouded and closed.

So do you beleive its alright to just pump drugs into children because some doctor says so? Doctors aren't always doing what's in the best interest of the patient. DR's also make money by peddling the pharmaceuticals they push. legal drug dealers.

Doctors used to say smoking was good,nothing wrong with asbestos,flouride (aluminum byproduct) is safe to ingest (alzheimers patients just happen to have high levels of aluminum in the brain) and so on. What about the meds for depression they were giving kids which was the cause of suicide.

There are many ways people perceive to think they can solve problems but I know (as I stated in my post) that the best way is compassion. Human interaction. Talking to people and showing them there's someone there that has been through the same or can relate to them is a MAJOR help in someones life. Making a connection so they don't feel all alone. Do you think if I was on the scene trying to help that child I would be praying at him? that's the stupidest thing I can think of. I may say a quick prayer to myself for guidance and relax but would RELATE to the reality that the person is going through.

As I stated in my post before,Somethimes a kind word is all that's needed.Problem is that's why relationships go bad, state of affairs we are currently in and why nobody's races religions or ideals will ever truly live in harmony. Misunderstanding and lack of COMMUNICATION.

This is what happens when you have a culture of people that watch clips of people getting shot, beheaded, have accidents etc on the internet. People have had their normal mechanisms for these matter rubed off.

What I fail to see is the same as people before me in this thread, why the police or people around those yelling did nothing to stop them. According to me that should be illegal.

To the ones claiming demonic possesion, maybe you ought to check for possesion as well. After all, you are the ones hearing voices. But of course...for YOU it's different.

Have to say, I am really tired of the religious preaching in ATS.

I'm almost at the point of suspecting it's a form of reverse-psychology, with the intent of turning people AWAY from God.

Yes, actually, I DO believe that.

Originally posted by Dock6
Have to say, I am really tired of the religious preaching in ATS.

I'm almost at the point of suspecting it's a form of reverse-psychology, with the intent of turning people AWAY from God.

Yes, actually, I DO believe that.

I'm tired of people such as yourself who don't read or don't have enough common sense to comprehend, or just don't want to comprehend what's said.

I never told you to accept christ or you go to hell if you don't.I personally and honestly don't care what you believe in or are deterred away from. You are just another contributer to negativity in life.

I stated my beliefs to the few who can relate and also stated an opinion that people who don't believe in God can also realate to.

Compassion and interaction is the key and if you read my posts,and not just selective reading, you would understand that.

Only the kid knows for sure now.

However I'm a firm believer in if someone truly tries to kill themselves, they always succeed. Failed attempts amount to the cries for help.

I mean death is a certainty and those that bring on a certainty certainly succeed.

While a horrific situation and a horrible thing to do to the family, we cannot steer the blame to the outside factors, such as a bunch of loons egging him on. Look how well the jackass films sold@!

That moment that the kid jumped, he had ultimate clarity that only one in the situation could have had.

Still, a dumbass display of "dumbdome" by a bunch of wankers.

reply to post by jackinthebox


I think you are wrong. If I was shouting and swearing when an ambulance crew were trying to attend to someone, the police ask me to move and arrest me if I didn't go. This is the same, the police were being obstructed from fullfilling their duties to their full extent, (they have even said their job was made difficult).
Obstructing the police in their lawful duties.
Breach of the peace, (I've seen the police arrest people for just shouting)
Using offensive language and swearing in public
It is also an actual offence punishable up to 14 years, for attempting to persuade someone to take their own life.
There are probably other charges that can be levelled against them.
Somebody in Derby should get the cttv footage and identify the worst culprits and charge them with the above, if the police are not going to do this, then a private legal firm should. The profits made from those buisnesses that were spared closure for 3 hours, because the police deemed this not serious enough should be donated to a legal fund. If any one sets one up in Derby I will donate generously, as I am sure will others.
Perhaps a local person in Derby or a group can set this up? But hurry before the cctv is erased.
(I am myself not from Derby but this affects the whole county)

The people who (I presume) called out 'jump' taunts, will carry the kids death as a burden on their conscience forever. Like a hit & run. This will manifest in some surprising ways... some bad, some good.

As for depression, it is a natural by-product of facing up to reality, and can also be constructive in it's own way.

reply to post by Shar_Chi


Yes good post.

If they were young, when they get older they will start to feel bad. Happens a lot.

If they were not young, it will still be on their mind forever, because they are human. Unless they are a sociopath...

[edit on 11-10-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by tracey ace
Lost for words,i know the family and i seriously doubt that he would have jumped if people were not goading him.
The chanting mob below should be prosecuted and they should have been moved on before it came to this horrible end.

Yes, teenagers frequently kill themselves do to the chanting of mobs.

Seriously this post makes a strong case for banning ATS posters that lie shamelessly.