Wall Street tumbles as fear grips the markets

Wall Street tumbles as fear grips the markets

www.msnbc.msn.com

NEW YORK - Fear swept across the financial markets Monday, with the Dow Jones industrial average closing with a loss of over 650 points, after the government’s financial bailout package failed to survive a vote in the House.

Wall Street started tumbling in afternoon trading as the vote was shown on TV Monday afternoon, sending investors fled to the safety of the credit markets, worrying that the financial system would now keep sinking under the weight of failed mortgage debt.

(visit the link for the full news article)

The dow's final closing drop point was -777.86. This was the lowest point ever in all of the US's history, according to CNN. Is this true? What does this mean exactly? Will there be a bounce back like in the drop in the last week? I really don't know what is going on anymore. Whatever happens, it definitely won't be good for anybody except the wealthy elite.

www.msnbc.msn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

That means exactly they are trying to put fear into people, to pass the bill. Thats all it really means.

I'm assuming this is going to be on the news nonstop until the bill passes. CNN is already overhyping the entire thing.

[edit on 9/29/2008 by SonicInfinity]

Agree with Andy.

The politicians will try to pass another bailout plan, after they check Americas pulse to see if this plunge has shaken the voters out of their "let it fall" stance.

The thing that worries me is if the people get scared and back down now, we may get a bailout scam that is worse for us than the one that has just failed.

Stand firm. Be brave. We will survive this.

CNN is using fear mongering headlines.

This drop is nowhere near as bad as others we had. You must look at percentage drops. Black Monday was 20% this was only 11% drop.

Originally posted by SonicInfinity
I'm assuming this is going to be on the news nonstop until the bill passes. CNN is already overhyping the entire thing.

[edit on 9/29/2008 by SonicInfinity]

THIS means that people who fund the LARGE works of the world VIA the stock market
are scared...

This is serious and it is very much psychological...

IT is the sound of your dollar shrinking, the sound of layoffs, and the sound of some very rich folks earning dollars for pennies.

There is nothing to gain by buying bad mortgages. The real money is in buying the cheap property when the bad mortgages fail.

Originally posted by mental modulator


IT is the sound of your dollar shrinking, the sound of layoffs, and the sound of some very rich folks earning dollars for pennies.

Well, unless I am very very wrong, and I could well be, we were going to see layoffs anyway. And, unless I am very very wrong, the problem with the bailout and pumping money into the market would have been to decrease the value of the dollar and hyper inflation on top of all the home losses, job losses, massive increase in the deficit, etc.

I still think this fall on Wall Street is better for the average American than the alternative. But, I am not going to say I know for that for certain. We are going to suffer, but I think that is just a given either way. Its just a matter of how much and for how long, and which class of people pays the highest price.

[edit on 29-9-2008 by Illusionsaregrander]

CNN!

NOW!

Maybe the worst financial Crisis EVER

Senator Greg

considering situation mods?

Ta

Elf.


[edit on 29-9-2008 by MischeviousElf]

People don't understand the current economic system. If you use the great depression as a gauge to our current situation, you will be sorely surprised when this collapse comes upon us.

If a new bailout is not passed with the next month to two months, we will see a full scale collapse. This was not black monday, this was the week before when the Bank of The United States collapsed and the Fed did nothing to save it.

I am not saying you are wrong, but would you mind leading us through the logic? Not in the timing aspect, that the fall will be worse in a week, but why you say that the bailout is necessary and the collapse will be so much worse than the Depression? You mention that we do not understand the economy, and that is very possible. After all, the economists didnt understand the economy well enough to prevent this with policy. I would like to see how YOU reason through the causes and effects a bailout or no bailout will have.

I want to be able to walk my mind through the logic and reasoning you are using rather than just disagree based on the fact that we have come to different conclusions.

Ok, so JPmorgan bought WaMu's banking branch. Good stuff. I was saying "good on you" to Dimon for doing it. It was a smart move for him.

Citigroup buys the banking branch of wachovia. Bad on citigroup. They don't have the quaterly numbers to support such a acquisition. They will not be able to afford it. Unless the credit markets loosen up a good deal, I would bet citigroup will go under.

Unlike WaMu and Wachovia, Citigroup is too big to be bought. That basically means that they are too big to fail. If they fail, lending will essentially stop. The market, already unstable, will further destablize. That will cause a further freeze in lending.

That is bad for business, especially small businesses. Big businesses might have the captial on hand to survive this credit freeze in the short run, but small businesses will immediately feel the effects. They will be forced to cut jobs, or bankrupt all together.

Big businesses will follow suit if the credit market isn't immediately unfrozen. More job losses means more tax revenue lost. Business loses profits since people can't afford to engage in big consumerism. This causes a domino effect essentially.

It's a collapse. Things have become so interconnected/interdependent upon eachother that any part failing would mean a collapse.

One family going bankrupt isn't a failing on their part of the system. It would take many. Same thing with banks. One bank failure isn't a failure of the system. That isn't what we are dealing with though. We are dealing with a MASS failure of the banking sector.

If it goes under, we all go with it as a result.

reply to post by SectionEight


Actually, the drop was less than 7% and was the largest decrease in total points the Dow has ever experienced but, as stated, the market has dropped more significantly in percentage in the past. Also, most investors and analysts agree that this was total and sheer panic selling today.

I personally think the Dollar is dying.

What have people like Aaron Russo been saying for years now?

the Dollar is worthless because it's backed up by air and promises, not anything substantial, it still has value because people believe in it!

I guess the belief's falling rapidly, not only in America but across the globe..

reply to post by Phatcat


It's not just him, a lot of people have been saying this for ages now, yet nobody listened - or maybe they did listen and didn't care.

When life's just tumbling along, and people can pay off their cars, houses, and what have you it was in their best interest to keep believing I guess.

Ironically, it still is.. if people make a run on the bank the S really HTF
Because then it creates more bancrupcys, more panic, more runs on banks, in a cycle spiraling down.

The bringer of bad news is never welcomed.. in earlier societys they got beheaded, nowadays they get discredited.. break out the tinfoil hats.

reply to post by grimreaper797




I guess what I am not seeing is how we are not going to go under (the little guys) anyway. Credit is never going to be as loose as it has been. At least not till people get all complacent and forget this mess, which will be a long time.

Tighter credit at the bottom is still going to hurt our still crippled consumer driven society. Causing further damage when sales plummet, production is tightened, more jobs are lost, etc.

Pumping billions of dollars into the markets weakens the dollar, and now those same Americans that are struggling to make ends meet, losing their homes, and have been relying on easy credit to just get by when dollar has the buying power it has, effectively sees their buying power drop with the weaker dollar. Which will hurt them even more.

Everything IS all connected. But it is all connected from the ground up. Wealth has never "trickled down." It trickles up. Essentially placing a "tax" on the American people by weakening the dollar doesnt seem like it is going to help matters from where I am looking at things.

[edit on 29-9-2008 by Illusionsaregrander]

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Its not the lack of credit for the average person that will crush us. it is the lack of credit for small businesses that will cause mass unemployment. Companies these days ALL run on credit to function, rather than capital on hand. Many companies will go under when they are forced to turn to capital and cannot raise it fast enough.

reply to post by andy1033


Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!! that is exactly what they are doing, this is a banking industry crisis, we the regular people will do just fine and the markets will be able to get rid of the bad apples that caused this mess, not reward them with a bail out at our expenses.