Wicca/Witchcraft/Magick?

Dave420 is right. There is much fantasy interwoven throughout wicca and other forms of magic and it's easy to get caught up in a world of "make-believe".

This can be quite unhealthy and in many instances and can lead to artificial ideas of grandiose and sometimes psychological damage that can be very difficult to recover from.

One has to realize that you are not God and never will be. There is an order to the universe and if you don't earn it, you won't get it. Simple as that. To attempt to artificially force one's desires, and play all powerful sorcerer, can only lead to disappointment in the end.

Though I'm not completely debunking magic, just stating the truth about it, whether one wants to believe it or not.

A perhaps more enlightened path, would be to learn to let go of all your selfish impluses that drive you to explore the dark arts and your lust for control. For only by letting go of your selfishness will you ever be able to truly find yourself.

But, as in the times of past, perhaps when your ready. When you tire of the childishness of your ways. When you learn to see the futility of your foolish games and lust for power for what they really are. Perhaps then you may find the way you have always searched for, but not before.

Originally posted by dave420


1. "So many claims, so little evidence..." what is it you were hoping for? A small spell?

2. "I though the motto of the website is "deny ignorance" not "embrace ignorance with every aspect of your life, believe in anything without any evidence, and destroy rationality" - You didn't quite finish making your point, I believe? If you don't have anything nice to say, quit your jibberjabber and mouth off somewhere where people care... we don't.

3. I live a very real life, have everyday issues, like every other human being. Thank you for your concern, though...*ahem*

4. Yes, I realise Harry Potter is fiction, seeing as I have read these books. I also have a wide collection of other books, like Anne Rice, Philip Pullman, Dan Brown, JRR Tolkein, Steven King, Robert Barclay...my list is endless. Bugger off, you are not contributing in any way, shape or form...

[edit on 3-10-2008 by emmy]

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Please don't take offence, but every Wiccan is different. I don't cast spells, yet you speak like every Wiccan is only into it for the 'Hollywood' style about it.

I'm nowhere near that status. In fact, you couldnt be more wrong (well, you probably could).

I realise that is your opinion, but think before you speak. I do not try to be a God. Nor do I think I'm more in control than other people. In fact I'm insulted when people try and tell me I'm being selfish. A little Wicca in my life isn't going to harm me or others around me. For the first time in years I'm learning to embrace life and nature and respect for the Earth, and it's all due to the wiccan/pagan lifestyle. My eyes have been opened much more in the past few months since I left the Military. Those were 4 years of hell (there were some highlights), but it's helping me get through the bad times.

If someone is made happier because of a certain religion or belief, why deny them that happiness, huh? Gr, some people really ticked me off the past couple of days (in my real life too, not here ATS).

But I've come to the conclusion some people here are ignorant or just plain arrogant, and can't accept others for who they are. Life's a bitch, if you don't like something, shut up and get on with your own life before you comment (ie criticism) on someone elses, and if you do - your life must suck somewhat.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS[...]
One has to realize that you are not God and never will be. There is an order to the universe and if you don't earn it, you won't get it. Simple as that. To attempt to artificially force one's desires, and play all powerful sorcerer, can only lead to disappointment in the end.
[...]A perhaps more enlightened path, would be to learn to let go of all your selfish impluses that drive you to explore the dark arts and your lust for control. For only by letting go of your selfishness will you ever be able to truly find yourself.[...]

Thx for the sermon preacher!
May I just politely remind you, that you are not in church at the moment!
Furthermore, I would like to remind you, that you say that you believe in the possibility of magic(k). Now if magic(k) possibly exists, not every person, who researches it or lives the life of a witch, magician, sorcerer, shamane etc. etc. is automatically a power-seeking deluded tw*t who is following his/her selfish impulses!
I for one, am actually quite content with my life, sure it could be better, but magic(k) isn't going to improve it. Magic(k) will only season it!

And as for the religious side of it => I'm still searching and asking questions...
So, mr(s) Anonymous, think before posting and please don't be so narrowminded and prejudice, because you may actually hurt someone with your remarks.

BB
Samuel

Originally posted by Aldolas
is automatically a power-seeking deluded tw*t who is following his/her selfish impulses!

I applaud thee with thy witty remark.

Good to see people standing up for their beliefs. As I say, if it makes someone happy, then why try and rid them of their happiness? Gr, arrogant people!

Thx Emmy.
(BTW, not 'my Beliefs', but the Belief of most of us here. Narrowmindedness usually winds me up...)

I was wondering if someone knows of good books to the subject of the days of the week especially the Sabbat...

And while we are at it: Yasmine Galenorn has a very strong faith in the Godess/Gods and interweaves them in her spells. Do you know of a good book without any Gods.
Not some New Age "Just call upon the characteristics of the Gods, 'cause they don't really exist" (They DO exist!!!) But a system with a couple of example spells without the Gods.

BB,
Samuel

reply to post by OkamiZaku

First off there is no such thing has white magic and black magic. Also if you are interested in Wicca because you want to perform spells you are doing it for the wrong reasons. Wicca or the craft is a life style. I recommend 'Drawing do the moon' By Margot Adler. It will give you a good history on all forms of the craft. She also has many interviews with other witches and what being a witch means to them.

reply to post by emmy


Good book recommendation. I haven't read the whole thing but I've flipped through. I have many books though, also two sets of tarot cards. Palmistry isn't my thing. I also have a pendulum, but had a bad experience so I don't know that I will be using it anytime soon. I don't consider myself wiccan but more of a follower of nature and the craft. I found peace studying these things and I recommend to anyone not to get into for spells. Its like becoming a christian to turn water into wine.

reply to post by mateandbucky06


You have just described me in your words, pretty much so I guess I'm more of a follower, but I do love their way of life.. maybe I'll induct myself soon haha!
Ah, cool (ref book), ooh, what happened with the Pendulum, if you don't mind me asking? You able to U2U it to me? (Just interested is all)

Ah, gotta go to work....joyus!

And Sam, thanks again

I very much inderstand the points you all are making. Wethe magick can fit into reality or not is a choice I'm only guessing people can make. When we have to resort to what "DENY INGNORANCE" means, however, I feel like I'm getting nowhere. I may be getting nowhere as is, but at least I know I'm doing something about it!

I read in many books that Hollywood has impared the image of magick and witches throught stereotype. I am very well aware of this. But, what I find really hilarious is as soon as someone brings up the subject on magick or whatever, someone skeptical of this matter brings up Harry Potter. I have never read one of those books in my life, so, you can't really say "I've read too much Harry Potter books". Maybe, it is prehaps the skeptics being unrealistic here? Coinsedence, I think not~!

Originally posted by OkamiZaku
Maybe, it is prehaps the skeptics being unrealistic here? Coinsedence, I think not~!

You took the words right out of my mouth.... not quoting Meatloaf, however, great choonage

Originally posted by emmy

Originally posted by OkamiZaku
Maybe, it is prehaps the skeptics being unrealistic here? Coinsedence, I think not~!

You took the words right out of my mouth.... not quoting Meatloaf, however, great choonage

Well, I am glad that someone agrees wit me!

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Well, this post is certainly interesting and thought out. I see what you mean, but, I don't think the point of Wicca (or whatever) is to become a god. It's more about helping others or helping yourself. Well, that's the concept of white magick, anyways. I could go on about what this "helpful magick" exactly is, but it wouldn't get anywhere. White magick wouldn't really be a dark art, would it? Anyways, I don't want to get into a big disagreement. When it comes to religion, you can argue about it all you want, but it really isn't going to go anywhere. I'll change my ways if I'm destined to do so, that's that.

reply to post by Aldolas


Just to point out there is nothing wrong with practicing the Wicca and believing in Jesus. "The Occult Christ" by Ted Andrews is a highly intriguing book. He talks about how Jesus was apart of one of the ancient higher teachings schools, but then things got twisted and he was used for political power instead. Even if you don't believe what Andrews wrote its still and entertaining view point.

No problems Okami

And yet another subliminal message about a book *bucky* may have to go buy it

I think I've got enough books for a while....
On the weekend I went slightly nuts buying books! After checking my statements, I decided to not go over 100 quid.
I put everything in my shoppping cart, that I thought was really important and ended up with 101 Pounds and 13 books.
13 is my lucky no. I hope that means I'll find what I'm looking for.

Well, I would be quite pleased if I'ld find out what I'm looking for.
I remember hearing a wise person say: "The more you know, the more you know that you don't know!" When I was a teenager I thought I understood, that the sentence was wise. Now 10 years on, I'm starting to realize: "I didn't have the faintest clue HOW wise that sentence is...."

Well, I think I might be busy for the next couple of months!

Oh BTW, anyone know of any books about the subjects mentioned in my last post?
The one about Jesus and the occult sounds like another must read.
I reckon I need a week or 2 holiday...

BB,
Samuel

[edit on 6-10-2008 by Aldolas]

I'll try to make this as plain as possible, I'm not now nor was I previously addressing my comments to anyone who is not attracted to wicca or magic for egotistical or selfish reasons. I assumed anyone reading my original comments would be able to discern this. Perhaps I was wrong.

Of course anyone who is attracted to wicca or magic for the healing aspects, divination, spiritual protection, or helping others in any way were not the individuals I was addressing my comments to.

I also wasn't attempting to convince anyone to retreat from wicca or magic. Only warn the more unbalanced individuals, who are no doubt reading this thread as well, against the abuse of same.

For some to assume only positive individuals, who would never abuse magic, would be reading this thread is very naive imo. Perhaps dangerously so.

But for those who so thoughtlessly attempted to vilify me; as you have done to me, so it will be done unto thee. Not by my hand, but by yours alone.

Regardless, there is a universal spiritual law which states: Anytime an individual(s) attempts to use or abuse spiritual forces (one example would be so-called magic) for material gains or the manipulation of others, they are not advancing in any way - spiritually or otherwise. They are in fact following a path of selfishness and devolving, and bringing harm to themselves and in many cases, others as well. This is very basic spiritual law 101 stuff.

Of course by "manipulating others" I mean that they are attempting to perform some rite or take some action against the will of the recipient.

But even attempting to heal someone without their full conscious permission can be a form of manipulation and thus create negative karma for the sender. Not to mention love spells or the like which one may attempt to perform with out full permission of the recipient.

Even Crowley himself, from whom wicca was derived (along with Gardner), stated that magic applied to any other use than the great work, was a form of black magic and should be shunned.

Originally posted by mateandbucky06
reply to post by OkamiZaku

 

First off there is no such thing has white magic and black magic. Also if you are interested in Wicca because you want to perform spells you are doing it for the wrong reasons. Wicca or the craft is a life style. I recommend 'Drawing do the moon' By Margot Adler. It will give you a good history on all forms of the craft. She also has many interviews with other witches and what being a witch means to them.

I believe there is such thing as white and black magick. And, no, I'm not interested in Wicca because of that. But, thanks for your concern and suggestions.

I got pulled into Wicca a long time ago when it was as someone else said the IN thing to do. I found it to be just another form of religion.
There is more magik in your natural untapped energy than in anything written in some book or performed in some ceremony.
The difference being that you "think" that by doing these things it will make it happen.. you have the power within you to do these things without all the frills or belief in pagan gods... it is just more effective with these techniques sometimes because you believe in yourself through the outside influence.

The occult and paranormal are deeply entertwined.. and I might have to admit that despite my lack of research into the subject my life is filled with activity that people often associate with the occult. It has nothing to do with anything i have ever done to make it so. It just is.

There are many people with natural gifts that look into these subjects in hopes of finding a way to harnass what they already have, although it is my belief that it is completely unnecessary. The power is there within you, waiting to be controlled you just have to focus.. You don't need any ritual to do it.. but for some.. it helps.

reply to post by NephraTari


Well, thank you very much for the tips. Someone told me something like that, but I can't seem to keep in touch with my inner magick...maybe I just need to finish the book I'm reading in order to understand it. Maybe I just need practice. But, thanks!