Chomsky prediction comes true ??

Throughout history, Adam Smith observed, we find the workings of "the vile maxim of the masters of mankind": "All for ourselves, and nothing for other People." He had few illusions about the consequences. The invisible hand, he wrote, will destroy the possibility of a decent human existence "unless government takes pains to prevent" this outcome, as must be assured in "every improved and civilized society." It will destroy community, the environment and human values generally --which is why the business classes have regularly called for state intervention to protect them from market forces

Noam Chomsky

Save Goldman Sachs.... didn't see them handing out cash payments to me when the gravy train was still on the rails, why should we bail them out ??

With the recent news of the crisis and bailout plans... is it time for a new social economic experiment and let the banks twist in the wind for a change and see what happens ??

Two recent firesales where Rockerfeller interests (JP Morgan) pick up loans of $50 Billion for Lehmans and take WaMus $370 billion in assets for a measly $1.9 billion.... thoses holding their shares and bonds get nuked.

I say the whole crisis is manufactured and the banks aren't dying at all it's the big final play robbing the middle classes of the last of their wealth (pension funds, stocks and shares).

I say they need the legitimacy of the govt to protect them from the angry mob when the cat gets out the bag....

question is, do the american people have the spine for a British style Poll Tax riot popular uprising that toppled the Thatcher govt?? After all, your ballot box is as impotent as those in Zimbabwe

If there were a Thread of the Month Award

I'd vote for the OP

As it is, all I can do is Star and Flag it


Good work OP

In fact, I think you could have gone even further

in your condemnation and suspicions

But I'm happy with what you wrote

I was eager to see Pilger and Chomsky's feelings on the current crisis?
I will consult their websites right away.
Now, possibly off topic, but relevant. A lot of ATS people are pretty open to some fairly hardcore conspiracy, myself included.
I have a theory (and this will eventually become a very large thread once I work out what to call it).
My theory is (was) that the elite, commonly refered to as illuminata are raping and pillaging to get the needed funds to prepare there own for 2012 earth change. My theory revolves around that if there is truth to the messages left by the Sumerian and Mayan and so on, that some serious changes will happer, then, like now, only an elite will be prepared to survive.
Now is is also very possible that 2012 will simply bring some mad weather and electric storms and floods and tsunamis and droughts and.......
So basically people with enoug knowledge and money can move to the right places on earth and build the righ kind of housing.
Perhaps this is what the educated elite always did.
Remember when they wrote the sumerian tablets, it is unlikely that the average peasant could read them, although more likely that was their intellectual way of recording the info.
So after that ramble my question is.......

Is this simply an econimic collapse based on corporate greed gone wrong?

Or is this the biggest conspiracy since JESUS?

When an army find itself on the brink of being overrun and ready to retreat what do they do? They pillage everything they can get from the towns they occupy as they pullout. The PWB are worried that their control on government which has served them so well these past 8yrs is likely coming to an end. So, in the time remaining, they will do everything they can to squeeze what is left out of the carcass.

All of the analysts are essentially saying the same thing. That is, the banking system (set loose after restrictions were lifted in the Reagan era) were provided with artifically low interest rates and tons of capital (courtesy of the central banks). They made widespread reckless and even fraudulent loans, devised new investment instruments to help perpetuate their con job all the while the government (whose responsibility it is to provide regulation and oversight) obligingly looked the other way. Now, using fear as the motivator, will reel in the rest of the fish.

Like sheep to slaughter...

Originally posted by serpentine
I have a theory (and this will eventually become a very large thread once I work out what to call it)

You might not be far wrong Serpentine

Interestingly I was reading this earlier:

Russia to dominate the World

One of the popular predictions about Russia is that when the permafrost thaws and the floods come, nothing will survive on Earth but Russia. The climate will change and Russia will occupy the best inhabitable zone. Plus, Russia is predicted to herald in world peace and flourish in the face of good fortune.

And the extra upside in food production the russians/ex USSR states have... much of western top soil has been destroyed by chemicals

Capitalist eye Russian Framland

Today, roughly 7 percent of the planet’s arable land is either owned by the Russian state or by collective farms, but about a sixth of all that agricultural land — some 35 million hectares — lies fallow. By comparison, all of Britain has 6 million hectares of cultivatable land.

The there's Bill Gates seed vaults in the artic not too far away from Russia and the worlds last remaining oil and gas reserves in the Caspian.... and the full spectrum dominance airbases in central asia. Was all this preplanned ??

Ironic that civilization came from these places and in it's demise will fall back to the same regions...mainly, the Bushs, Clintons, Rockerfellers etc ....

[edit on 26-9-2008 by Unknown Perpetrator]

I read Pilger and Chomsky, although banking and economics has never been a strong point. Probably why I have no credit, credit cards, loans etc.

Is the whole ENRON thing symbolic of the BS that has created this situation? Since 9-11 US financial markets have been based on unconventional markers. ie people speculating on people speculating on the value of the wood from trees that haven't even grown yet, and actually making a fortune because they advise and invest in natural resources that don't exist. Like in a fast growth forest, people were making money on the wood that was 20 yrs away from ready, then selling options on the following generation of wood knowing with the current state of the nature, this wood would be very valuable. And no one pointing out that these trees will probably never grow in the first place.

Does this sort of sum up what banks have been doing?

Wasn't Bush and his cronies proven to be blatently corrupt over ENRON?

Why are they still sitting in their leather couches? I can not get my head around what they are getting away with.

I want an economic rationalist to come and tell me it's all ok and it is just a result of bad management of the banks and economy. But even with my limited knowledge I know it is so far beyond this.

I have friends who are conservative european bankers and made a lot of money. They knew it was all a lie when they saw the graphs of the financial markets (I forget what they call this thing) drop rapidly Sept 10th for no apparent reason. And these guys I speak with are pretty much very conservative in their thinking. They decided the whole Sept 11 thing was mad even before their conspiracy freak buddy (me) had ever thought of it.

Flagged and starred!

There were a number of harbingers warning us of the impending 'clean out'. But among the clearest I believe was the rather nasty image we faced when Vice President Halliburton, met and allowed the energy consortium to secretly compose a policy and execute a plan to bilk Americans of their hard-earned cash.

Enron was instrumental, being the fall guy for a larger conspiracy, one involving the destruction of the SEC records in WTC7 eliminating all collected evidence of the breadth and depth of their plans.

The bubble was inflated, the FED did its part by manipulating the credit rate and available cash. Just as it had done in the last depression.

Don't forget the 2.3 Trillion dollar 'lost' by the DoD, as announced by then Secretary "People get away with lying all the time" Rumsfeld the day before the archives were destroyed as the pentagon was 'struck'.

There are too many coincidences. Too much money going to too few people.

2012? Impending world collapse, catastrophic change? I don't know. Perhaps. But regardless of that angle, they are shameless parasites that should be confined to a small room for the rest of their lives, sentenced to respond to letters from every person who suffered because of their greed and lust for power.

Makes us wonder about so many "myths". Perhaps Atlantis as written by Plato was his summary of a soceity that reached a peak and disappeared with no warning. In this context Plato and Socrates are talking yesterday and perhaps we are only now understanding the politics behind survival on earth. So he was like a peoples poet. Perhaps a part of an elite but someone who related his knowledge to the proletariet.

Hitler's fascinaton with Tibet and Antarticta have always felt important to me, and been some of the greatest research topics. . He believed these were places where knowledge of survival comes from. Now I'm not saying Hitler was a good man, but he was probably extremely intelligent. He got his information via occult knowledge, which in essence is not much different to any religion.

So the big religions came about to keep the masses in the dark, and the secret societies and the occult is how the important knowledge is handed down to those who the elite believe need to know.

I guess this is sounding like a sum up of conspiracy 101. But the thread started with Chomsky, and it seems these days truth is always stranger than fiction. Chomsy is a highly respected left of centre writer. The fact he is accurate should not be a shock to anyone.
So now we need to decide what to do if this elite really are making a survival plan and tring to keep us in the dark.

It seems to be often mentioned that high places like Tibet and mountains in New Zealand are where one wants to be if the earth starts spitting teeth.

Russia too- maybe under all the permafrost it is lush, fres and ready to be molded into a rich and prosperous land.

Sorry I realised I am derailing the original post.

I can't help make the connection simply because I can not think of a credible reason why these men would be so evil.

I always knew about 2012 but always took the ancient knowledge more as a fascinating excersise in the belief systems and knowledge of some of these old cultures that have left the so called evidence.

All of a sudden I can see a reason why these evil men might do what they do.....survival!

It can't be pure greed, because very few people are that evil. They may want t be rich beyond all comprehension, but why would they want everyone to suffer?

Even in history such characters are rare although did exist for sure.

I am trying to find reason in the madness. If it takes billions dollars to put their survival plans into practice, then we would have a reason, because we know these elite pigs want their bloodlines to survive.

reply to post by serpentine


I'm not prepared to agree that you were derailing the thread.

Choamsky, for one, I believe is a fervent denier of conspiracy theory in general, yet, I suspect that even he might want to 'revisit' his objections in light of the ever increasing appearance of impropriety and 'circumstantial' evidence.

Yeah, Chom is one of the great minds of the time, he is an academic, and a lot of people don't like him because he deals with topics on such an intellectial level. Me drawing the whole elite survival mechanism into it is probably not something Chomsky would entertain. You are correct, he denies conspiracy in the way that he is at the top of his field, so when a conspiracy starts holding water, Chomsky has probably already stated his observations and theories, therefore it is no longer a conspiracy, because he is not denying anything.
Is forethought and a deeper understanding of facts the thing that seperates him from many other writers who get labeled conspiracy writers?
His ideas are usually the root of what becomes conspiracy litrature. I guess if someone writes anything about the current state without knowing Chom's work, they are speaking a little ignorantly.
Like Pilger, he lays it out as he sees it, and he sees further than most,

So back to the "elite survival mechanism concept"......Chom was right, I think about everything he writes about.

But does this explain why the elite are doing this?

OP... can you post a link if you have one? I'd like to read more.
Thanks.

This guy seems to know his stuff. I have had an article of his in my SIG for quite some time (If you haven't read it please do). Most everything he says seems to ring true to the highest degree !

Thanks for this one.!

[edit on 26-9-2008 by d11_m_na_c05]

This is an excellent thread, and one that touches on many valid points and theories. Over the last few months I have been pleasantly surprised by my fellow Americans. Many, many more people are listening than I had ever imagined.

We need voices like Noam's. We even need voices like Alex Jones, annoying as they may be . The more we communicate with one another, the more we empower one another. Whatever we can do as individuals to open each others eyes should be seen as humanitarian efforts.

We may or may not be on the brink of something big. It is safe to say change is underway. I would like to see nothing more than our great country, and the whole world for that matter, get back on track.

Its not a miracle actually. All fiat currencies due to the nature of being backed by borrowing, versus something tangible, is essentially akin to living off of credit cards and are bound to fail at sometime or the other.
Additionally, the timing is right for Bush and his band of thieves to cash in for one last government sponsored jackpot and ride off into the sunset with their US taxpayer wealth.
As I've stated before, Dick has his hideout already established in Dubai where Hallilburton has recently, coincidentally I might add, relocated their headquarters.
Bush has his hideout in Paraguay where he's got Blackwater protection for his 10,000 acre ranch over one of the largest fresh water aquifers in North and South America !

I see the problem here is education of the masses, why doesn't someone at ATS get a select few writers/designers to come up with a little leaflet that states a few home truths on the financial layout of the fed. Put up the money to get a few hundred thousand leaflets printed, distribute them to a geographically mapped group of members and then have a synchronized drop off of buildings, in malls etc. With enough leaflets and a synchronized multi city drop it will make the headlines and even if it doesn't you can get enough people to read the truth and maybe make a difference.

That's what I'm talking about.
Is Bushs' Paraq venture 10,000,100,000 or 1 mill? Keep getting different sizes, either way it is big, and also strange they chose there.
Are we now bringing the financial conspiracy and some recent hard facts together here?
Look at all the likely suspects.
They all have places to disappear.
The word amongst fear mongers, conspiracists, fanatics, zealots and hobos is get out of urban centres. And all those who have no plan, are ignorant or more likely apathetic as this unfolds, won't have any idea what hit them.
I dare to look where the Rockys will go.
Interesting times. If u own a house in LA now, it may become as usefull as a jungle bungalow in Burma by next month.

reply to post by Unknown Perpetrator

I am somewhat perplexed by people's reaction to the current situation. The bailout. I mean really. What did people think would happen.
Didn't anyone notice or not remember the goings on in August 2005. We, through the grace of God have gone three years extra. A free gift.

Originally posted by Unknown Perpetrator
Throughout history, Adam Smith observed, we find the workings of "the vile maxim of the masters of mankind": "All for ourselves, and nothing for other People." He had few illusions about the consequences. The invisible hand, he wrote, will destroy the possibility of a decent human existence "unless government takes pains to prevent" this outcome, as must be assured in "every improved and civilized society." It will destroy community, the environment and human values generally --which is why the business classes have regularly called for state intervention to protect them from market forces

Noam Chomsky

Can you cite a source for that? Noam Chomsky seems to be a person who would take the time to understand Adam Smith. Nevertheless, the passage is a misrepresentation of what Adam Smith actually said. And if Noam Chomsky is responsible for that, it wouldn't be the first time that someone who should have known better has attributed nonsense to Adam Smith. (In the past I've done so myself. Now I know better. But I'm not Noam Chomsky either!)

Adam Smith said that the price system, the relative prices of what is exchanged, is what affected market behavior. He argued against the concept of an invisible hand affecting the market.

But rather than explaining it myself, I'll quote someone more well versed on Adam Smith than I ever could be. Turns out he wrote something appropriate to this discussion recently.

Correspondents regularly ask me why I bother repudiating the invisible hand as being related to Adam Smith’s authorship, when I am not charged with misunderstanding the metaphor (even by distinguished scholarly colleagues).

Well, modern economists created a stick with which to beat those who doubted the significance of general equilibrium models or who challenged the alleged mystical (even divine) workings of commercial economies that somehow (never explained) ensured it produced the optimum outcome for the public good because, they assert with absolutely no evidence Adam Smith said so.

Now the believers and those who oppose markets on principle (strange, given the universal poor results, both personal and in terms of the public good of these tried and untried alternatives) are using the trumpeted myth of the invisible hand (which had nothing to do with Adam Smith on how markets work) to beat back the defenders of markets as better able to deliver what people want than politicians, single-issue campaigners, and anger-driven reformers.

There are many roles for the state, as Adam Smith acknowledged and which I regularly remind readers of on Lost Legacy. He was not opposed to state intervention in serious emergencies, and example of which you can read in his writings on the free trade in corn and his clear statements in favour of public intervention when corn markets are severely disrupted, often by cack-handed politicaly motivated ‘anti-dearth’ programmes that often initiate the famines they seek to avoid, Book IV, Wealth Of Nations).

In the storm of anti-market hysteria that builds up when events overrun normality we should quietly explain how economies work, how they recover, and what those politicians, who smugly believe that a week is a ‘long time’, are doing to make things worse, unintentionally of course.

All taxpayers’ money that governments mobilise to ‘support’ the economy originate in the commercial sector. If that dies, the economy dies – witness Zimbabwe; witness the release of commercial behaviours in India and China, as the state has pulled back from doing what it is not very good at; and witness how commercial actions of profitable businesses overcome the fall-out from banks in trouble (compare HBOS-Loyds TSB with the dragged-out saga of Northern Rock).

Maybe, economists should concentrate on how markets work and not on mythical nonsense about invisible hands (and that other nonsense of the visible hands of governments).

Gavin Kennedy @ Adam Smith's Lost Legacy - September 17, 2008

[edit on 27-9-2008 by Areal51]

I wanted to post a write up I have done about what really is going on now behind the scenes, the reason for it and what to expect.

Some of you have read it already and I thank you for that...but for those of you whom have not I think this might be one of the most important history lessons you may learn:

Who killed Lincoln? Kennedy?

Focusing on the US, there have been 3 central banks owned by the Rothschilds.

The first was called "Bank of the United States" and was completely controlled by the Rothschilds, this bank's charter was defeated by President Andrew Jackson in 1832.

President Jackson was so celebrated for this achievement that on his tombstone is engraved the words:

"I killed the bank"

The second central bank was again named "Bank of the United States" and was chartered during President Buchanan’s presidency as he was a southern state supporter.

The southern states seceded as their cotton crop was intimately tied to England’s cotton industry and thus was the gateway for the Rothschild’s to assert their influence over America.

Shortly thereafter, to the Rothschild’s disdain, Abraham Lincoln was elected president. He needed funding for the war between the north and south and approached the "Bank of the United States" for a loan.

The bank offer d their loans to President Lincoln…at 24% to 35% interest, making it impossible for him to repay or borrow for that matter.


So Lincoln authorized and printed constitutionally authorized interest free money and ordered it to be considered as legal tender. Over $400,000,000.00 of this currency was issued.

Lincoln was successful in ending the charter of the "Bank of the United States" with the help of Russian Czar Alexander the second, whom was at the time the only other major country to resist the Rothschild’s banking influence. He believed in defeating their efforts so much that he sent some of his warships to dock in New York’s harbor and stated any attack by the south would result in his country fighting for the North of the United States.


Shortly thereafter, Mr. Booth killed Mr. Lincoln.


Fast forward to 1913

President Woodrow Wilson enacted the Federal Reserve Banking act, establishing the current version of the Rothschild’s international banking controlled empire.

(If you need any more proof of Wilsons connection to the Rothschild’s, why not see who is the most recent dean of the Woodrow Wilson school of public and international affairs: wws.princeton.edu...)


Fast forward to June 4th 1963,

President John F. Kennedy signed presidential Executive order 11110 which was designed to strip the Federal Reserve of its power to loan money to the United States Government with interest.

Over $4 Billion in $2 and $5 denomination notes were put into circulation from the now newly authorized power given to the US Treasury department whom was issuing these notes backed by US Silver. The notes almost looked like the Federal Reserve (Rothschild) notes, but the Fed note says “Federal Reserve Note” and the US note says “United States Note” (And we’re nicknamed Kennedy bills). The Federal Reserve note has a green seal and serial number and the US notes had red seals and red serial numbers.


Just 5 months later, President Kennedy is assassinated (November 22, 1963)


The first action as newly sworn in President Lyndon B. Johnson was the removal of Kennedy notes from circulation and the vetoing of executive order 11110.


TODAY

Having their power increased century by century, the Rothschild Empire which includes such intermarried families as the Rockefellers, Warburgs etc… have maintained complete control over the international political and financial scene.

The current financial crisis is a carefully engineered scheme to consolidate into a more easily controllable conglomerate the varied financial institutions under one “roof”


JP Morgan (a Rothschild bank) is acquiring Washington Mutual among other banks….


Goldman Sachs…well: Helen Sachs (Grandaughter of Goldman Sachs co-founder Joseph Sachs) married Nathan Straus Jr. (Grandson of Lazarus Straus who headed R.H. Macy & Co.)...Nathan Straus Jr.'s first cousin (also grandson of Lazarus Straus) Roger William Straus Married Gladys Guggenheim (Grandson of Meyer Guggenheim)...Meyer Guggenheim's daughter is Cora Guggenheim.Cora Guggenheim married Louis F. Rothschild...

So you have the Rothschild-Guggenheim-Straus-Sachs connection.



You see…we are but mere pawns in a game that was started before our great grandfather’s time.


There is no “control” by any government but that which is allowed by those that control the money.


The golden rule: He who controls the gold makes the rules.


To quote Mayer Rothschild: “Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws.”


To quote his wife Gutle Rothschild: “If my sons did not want wars, there would be none”




Thanks for reading....