Artifact from Atlantis?

I did a burial at sea once and that looks very similar to the urn the ashes were contained in. The one I did we did have a candle burning in it and a wreath attached to the bottom. I do not remember how the wreath was attached though.

Greek key pattern It is one of the most ancient decorative motifs, with many symbolic meanings (the four cardinal points, the meander of life, the four seasons, etc.). .

Byzantine, Constantinople

Ok, my 2 cents now...

First i agree to the object to be upside down!

Second: In the sector where we can see something similar to a cow head, we can see the classical greek motive filling all the background of the motive. If we try to find a relation between this 2 things, one cames to my mind right away... Minoic Art, ancient Greeks, King Minos period, Crete!
The bull head: Minoic culture prized the bull,(For some weird reazon it looks they prize the Sun in the personification of a Bull) and they have even the Minotaurus legend and his maze.
The greek classical motive it's designed in a "mazed" continous way in the background, and it could represent the Minotaur' maze, and the bull head could be the Minotaur 's head and at the same time the Divine Bull, The Sun!

What many people see as a "flame" or a Lilly"...i am sorry if this will shock you, but following the minoic traditions, it could be the artistic representation of a female Vulva!!
The 2 heads looks to me 2 women, representing the classical Virgins often offered to the Bulls.
In minoic tradition, times to times, in especial seasons of the year, virgin women was sacrified to bulls in a horrid show. Almoust always they bull was allowed to rape the woman wildly, resulting in her death.
The girls chosed to this offering must be "at that part of the month, bleeding"(sorry i don´t know how to say this in english), and was tied with ropes to a small kind of low wood table.Or directly tied to the bull's belly.
And the Bull must be in the rutting (rut) period, to be able to react to the smell of the woman bleeding vulva.
summaring, all the process is quite disturbing and barbaric. You can find some good detailed info about the ritual in many books. Not sure about the internet though.
Thats my idea...Minoic art, and almoust certain the object will be used for some "dark" propouse related to Bulls, or womans,or related to some bull temple, or arena.

The ancient greek metalsmiths was knowed also by they'r "experiments" with some ores, trying to get metals with weird or especial phisycal properties. That can be the reason why the artifact material is hard to classifiy.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...



(sorry for my bad English Grammar)


P.S.- I am sorry, i am trying to search for Minoic art images, but im having a hard time. So few things about the minoic art period in images
If i find something of interest i will post here.



[edit on 24/9/08 by Umbra Sideralis]

reply to post by Skyfloating


im not an archiologist and dont even know how to spell it,,but i have looked at alot of artifacts,and just by looking at the motif on the side,anyone can see its a candle holder, its clearly drawn on the top sides..just look at the flame coming of the top of a"yep you guesd it" some sort of opend flanged thing that vauely looks like the object itself,,,so there!

Originally posted by Skyfloating
So, we´ve heard reasons its from China, reasons its from the Maya, reasons its from Greece, reasons its from South Africa.

That might indicate a common source of these styles: Atlantis.

Interesting synchronicity. I've been reading The Illuminatus! Trilogy by Robert Anton Wilson & Robert Shea and a similar situation is described therein: the protagonists are analyzing sculptures taken from Atlantis and "they bore resemblance to Egyptian and Mayan, Classical Greek, Chinese and Gothic, combined with a surprisingly modern-looking note." (p257) And then I come across this thread.

This type of thing has been happening to me more and more often as I increase my awareness of it... Also this book is unlike anything I've ever read and it seems more and more important than ever these days. (Sky, your avatar looks like the book cover!)

Anyway, neat thread, fun to follow, and perceiving Atlantis as the origin of this item is so much more fun for me than the alternatives!

Cheers

reply to post by Avocado


Awesome Synchronicity.


Melanie: I look forward to those archaeologist reports.

reply to post by Illahee


Thank you, that seems a very logical conclusion. Now if I can remember where I've seen them before maybe I can get them out of my head

reply to post by Skyfloating

I have been studying and teaching about the Maya for years (been on a few digs) and i can confirm the following (1 and 2):

1. It is not of Maya origin because of stylistic and Iconographic depictions.
2. If the object is metal, as the patina, pitting and coloration seem to indicate, the Maya would not have devised it. They worked primarily in stone and ceramics. Worked metal, such as gold or silver among the Maya was very rare. The object in question appears to be bronze.

Has anyone considered that it possibly might be Tibetan in origin and may be an incense burner?

Originally posted by Avocado

Originally posted by Skyfloating
So, we´ve heard reasons its from China, reasons its from the Maya, reasons its from Greece, reasons its from South Africa.

That might indicate a common source of these styles: Atlantis.

Interesting synchronicity. I've been reading The Illuminatus! Trilogy by Robert Anton Wilson & Robert Shea and a similar situation is described therein: the protagonists are analyzing sculptures taken from Atlantis and "they bore resemblance to Egyptian and Mayan, Classical Greek, Chinese and Gothic, combined with a surprisingly modern-looking note." (p257) And then I come across this thread.

This type of thing has been happening to me more and more often as I increase my awareness of it... Also this book is unlike anything I've ever read and it seems more and more important than ever these days. (Sky, your avatar looks like the book cover!)

Anyway, neat thread, fun to follow, and perceiving Atlantis as the origin of this item is so much more fun for me than the alternatives!

Cheers

I read a few of the chapters myself this week...
The Minoans learned metal working most likely from the Syrians. From what I have read. And they were much better at stylizing than this. If they wanted you to think bull it would have been quite obvious. imo

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Shawn B.

 

I am also interested in why you make such a positive connection between that spiral design and Atlantis. Please post on that if you get the chance

It's the mark of God that was put on Cain in bible, which also marks where Atlantis was, a place with hurricanes. Atlanteans created the bible.


Here's another thing the Mayans, Irish Italians share in common.




[edit on 24-9-2008 by Shawn B.]

Interesting theories!

I was wondering if the OP could clarify something for me.

You mentioned in your intial post that the language could not be deciphered. I am totally clueless about archaelogy or artifact and what I hsould be looking for. So I am wondering if you could point me to where the undecipherable language is found in the pictures.

In the third picture, from the bottom up, it looks to me like a penis pointing towards, and entering a vagina, followed by a flower to represent the creation of life. The flower is a type of lily called a calla lily. The patina is green which indicates the possible use of copper in the metal. It is probably brass.

[edit on 24-9-2008 by o22a6ar]

It's an awesome artifact. Sorry if I missed something. I am not convinced it has anything to do with Atlantis. However it is (probably) not a fake or a hoax. The asian lion head (which is actually a tiger if it has asian roots) says to me it is chinese (that is if it is older than 2-300 yrs). Other motifs, as forementioned, say it may have roots in other cultures. I know a lot of wreck divers and I can tell you for sure if it was found in the gulf of Mexico it is damn interesting. The fact musuems can't or won't value it only says it is worth a lot of money. Regardless it is beautiful. I will assume experts have already viewed the thread.
For sure id they are sitting on the fence it is very important.
I study the Atlantis - lost civilizations for 20 yrs. I know a little about antiiquties. This item is hot. Sounds dumb but the best place (to find out if it holds) is eBay. For sure it will hit 100,oooUS within a week. Thereore it may be priceless. The big problem is if it is important it will be purchased and disappear.
Ebay dudes..........eBay.
If an arab offers half mill we know it is a special piece, but to be honest the Atlantian anglr holds no weight.........YET.
I will be following this thread. One of the more interesting in the last week.
I'd suggest Z.Sitchin is the man yu need on the case.

reply to post by Avocado


Synchronicity abounds! I read Illuminatus! a couple of years ago and just yesterday I was wondering why no one seems to mention RAW's work around here very much.

I too think the 'flame' looks suspiciously like a 'fertility symbol'. Could it be meant to represent both?

Isn't Atlantis thought by some to be the first 'matriarchal society'?

I would encourage those here that have 'intuitive' reactions to ancient imagery to explore those sychronicities. Even if your initial notions turn out to be 'incorrect', they happen for a reason, and I think they guide you towards answers you're seeking.

Thanks for sharing, SF. I know why you were meditating on Atlantis!

And thanks to the owner, if you're reading!

Originally posted by serpentine
The asian lion head (which is actually a tiger if it has asian roots) says to me it is chinese (that is if it is older than 2-300 yrs).

Could this be a foo dog? The resemblance is there. I'm not sure why it didn't occur to me before.



[edit on 24-9-2008 by TravelerintheDark]

[edit on 24-9-2008 by TravelerintheDark]

it appears to be a ming dynasty vase or ku.
the key motif , the cloud motif at the bottom, and the general
schematics of the design all say ming.
which is totally awesome to think that the chinese were here before us!
I'm a lurker, but this was too cool not to comment on.

I submit some comparisons for your veiwing:

Addendum:

And just because this item doesn't show enough "age" to be from Atlantis doesn't mean it's not originally from there. It may have been 'exported' or traded before Atlantis 'sank', and fell out of a boat a thousand years later.

This piece doesn't look like it was underwater for any more than one hundred years, if at all. I have seen roman artifacts that had a really thick layer of marine life, et cetera surrounding them. Additionally, the patina indicates that it was exposed to oxygen in the air for quite some time i.e.: at least one hundred years. This is unless it is fake, and chemicals were used to speed up the patina process. I don't think this thing was found underwater.

[edit on 24-9-2008 by o22a6ar]

reply to post by srsen


Thank you for your reply. Yes it seems many people will jump to the wrong conclusion based on a preliminary observation. And I agree that the possibility of it being from the general location is just as possible.

I haven't seen any argument that it is not a casting so I will consider that it is, a casting.

My knowledge of castings is limited but I would suspect it would involve more than one person. You would need people to gather fuel for the melting process, gather the ore for the base metal, and someone who had the knowledge to put it all together and create the casting itself. You might say that this is obvious, but not everyone has this understanding.

There are two basic types of creations, or crafts as it might be called. The first is a craft from necessity. Generally, depending on the resources available, it will be simple in design and have one function. The wheel. The other is a craft that appears to have no function, interesting, but really serves no purpose. Modern Art.

This item appears to have both, purpose, and art. We take this for granted today as many things have decorative additions on them. But in the time line this is suppose to come from, such additions would have been costly to include. As has been pointed out earlier, many items from the past have "Decorations" on them, and most, reflect a uniqueness to the craftsman and who ordered the creation.

The common man does not normally acquire enough resources to be extravagant to add expensive additions such as "Art", but owners and royalty do. It appears to me that this items genesis came from a time and place where expense and work force were not a major concern.

Without the additional pictures looking up and down it would only be a guess as to its intent. Is it possible to get more pictures?

I suspect if it is a lantern/ flame holder the keys on its side may hold a clue. If it were designed to hang in the air you would expect to see three sets of "keys", as only two would allow the torch to flip over. three would steady it. This item only has two so I would suspect they are pivot points where the torch slips into pins or dowels or even tied in place and at the bottom of the container is a bar or wooden slat to keep it from tipping, but still allow it to move to counter that actions of the waves. The motif of the wind god would be an indication that wind was a element to be considered, "Sails on a ship", I believe this is a ships lantern.

From where and when would require metallurgical analysis and testing of any recoverable residues. One thing to consider when testing the metal is that it is a possibility that the metal itself may be recycled from older scrap so the results might vary depending on the craftsman and anything he may have added to the mixture.

Considering the detail on the sides, I would think this came from a Royal ship where expense would not be a primary concern. Value? priceless.

There's something mechanical and relatively precise about the repeating spirals. They are cut off by the edges of the piece, which might suggest that their expanse is infinite, as if they constitute an ether of some sort.

Water, perhaps? Spirals do approximate fluid movements, especially in streams, etc.

There is a great contrast in the geometric nature of those repeating spirals and all the fluidic, curvy ornamentation/symbols on top of them. Notice that the ornamentation only appears with the spirals beneath. Their existence is complimentary and perhaps symbiotic. What ether did the artist have in mind, and what on earth (or elsewhere!) are those shapes?

Some look like legs in high heels. Those same ones look like serpentine/eel creatures (perhaps with fins) who, as a pair, support a flame-glyph. What does the flame represent--enlightenment, fertility,...? Perhaps they originated from the phallic design on the bottom (or maybe being in lotus position. Interesting that some of the glyphs have more 'organic' looking spirals. What else is different about this non-mechanical water representation? Where does it occur? What might it suggest?