JFK's sniper's rifle

Originally posted by hypervigilant
In regards to The Rifle that was found by a Dallas police officer at the sixth floor window. It was described as a bolt action Mauser and the cop that gave the description worked in the gun department of Jay's Hardware Store on Singleton Blvd. in Dallas, the highest volume gun dealer in the city at that time. I was told by some old shooting buddies that there was no way that he would have mistaken a Mauser for a Carcano. I was listening to a radio when this was reported not long before the announcement that the President was dead. Some how the Carcano and 3 empty shell cases that appeared to have been sat in place were later found by Feds and was said to been missed by the first to arrive. There are so many stories and opinions for a reason, some that warrant investigation and other that don't. New books, speculations and theories will keep popping up to just add to the confusion, while those that perpetrated this attack are still doing what they have always done, and that is to commit more acts of high treason against the citizens of the world in quest of a new world order. If anyone ever gets a direct hit on the true story, it will just be ignored and dismissed as just another theory. In, fact it possibly has already.

EXCELLENT POST. DEAD ON!!!

The officer that found and ID'ed it knew it was a Mauser. First detective to see the hulls on the floor thought their positioning on the floor did not look normal. A three lined up, nice and neat. No randomness. He didn't buy it for one instant.

The Mannlicher Carcano found on the 6th floor of the TSBD was a "throwndown" and was never tested to see if it had been fired that day. They didn't test it because it wasn't fired and contained no prints from LHO until two days later when the FBI fingerprinted LHO's dead body. Only then did the rifle contain LHO's fingerprints.

Whether the Mannlicher should have been found with or without a clip caused quite a bit of confusion as they found the rifle with a chambered round but no clip in the magazine. (A Mannlicher expells the clip after the last round is chambered, not after the last round is fired.) Ruby was involved is some manner with this rifle and he was nervous until after the clip issue had been resolved.

This weapon can be linked back to a program involving Senator Thomas Dodd (Chris's daddy).


Testimony of John Bevilaqua to the ARRB


It is not a high velocity rifle by any means, and only 1 expert could get off the three rounds in the allotted time after working (shimming) with the scope for 15 minutes to even attempt a reinactment of the shots.

It is ABSOLUTELY the last weapon a US Marine (if it was actually LHO) would have used to accomplish "the Crime Of The Century".

So which would have been a better sniper weapon: The Mauser or the Springfield?

It always surprised me that LHO did not use a M1 garand.

During his time in the marines that is what he would have trained on and he likely could have got off a full 8 round clip in 8 seconds and likely could have got off part of another clip before the car got out of range.

It would have been a little less accurate without a scope but that would have been made up for in the volume of fire he could have put out and the extra
skill because of his marine training with the rifle.

In 1963 you could get a M1 from the army civilian marksmanship program for about $30 and as a ex marine he would have had a easy time getting one.
and likely would have gotten a better grade one as ex military.(they asked on the form i filled out in 1974 what service, rank, and unit you were in if ex military)

Originally posted by dallasroofer
So which would have been a better sniper weapon: The Mauser or the Springfield?

Practically neither. The M1903 was an (initially illegal) copy/adaption of the Mauser K98. The Springfield had the better sights while the early versions had worse ergonomics - both irrelevant at the time of the shooting.

Originally posted by dallasroofer
reply to post by Lonestar24

 

That's a good point. I didn't know that about the Italian rifle. What kind of round would typically be used with that rifle?

The blunt-nosed 6.5x52mm Carcano. It was notorious for punching straight through flesh which lends the one bullet theory some credibility.

Also, since the Springfield rifles the CIA used had silencers, wouldn't that have been a better choice for a shot from the roof? Especially IF indeed Oswald was a plant?

No since this could be evidence towards a larger scheme behind the shooting. In a covert operation you want to eliminate all the traces from your operative to your organisation. Using an exotic like a silenced M1903 would have been too much of a hint...

...IF Oswald was a plant

Originally posted by ANNED
It always surprised me that LHO did not use a M1 garand.

During his time in the marines that is what he would have trained on and he likely could have got off a full 8 round clip in 8 seconds and likely could have got off part of another clip before the car got out of range.

It would have been a little less accurate without a scope but that would have been made up for in the volume of fire he could have put out and the extra
skill because of his marine training with the rifle.

In 1963 you could get a M1 from the army civilian marksmanship program for about $30 and as a ex marine he would have had a easy time getting one.
...

Well thats a lot to speculate on. However, Harvey did not have much money and the Carcano rifle only cost $20 including the scope ($13 without). Also he was lightly built which again may hint at a preference for the midler Carcano recoil.

Not to forget he was out of the marines for some years and his shooting habits may have changed in that time. Lastly, and this is often ignored, just because he was a qualified marksman does not mean he had intimate knowledge on weapons. It may just be that he bought the rifle he liked or thought would be enough for his task without considering which weapon would probably have been better suited.

reply to post by TXMACHINEGUNDLR


Here's the HARD EVIDENCE that there was a second shooter. Guy has proof found on top of the old book depository last month. Doesn't know what to do.

reply to post by Lonestar24


Plus, it's pretty well known the CIA did have sniper rifles at the time (Springfield M1) right?

reply to post by Lonestar24


I didn't realize the Springfield would be considered an exotic rifle back then. If Oswald was a patsy then today's video proves he sort of helped cover up their traces, right?

LINK BELOW

Originally posted by dallasroofer
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

Thanks for the support. Here's the latest YouTube video evidence.

Do not mistake my stating the Mannlicher Carcano was a piece of crap, with support.

I support no one's claims other than my own and those who I state as such.

Historically speaking, the rifle was built as a panic weapon, the Italian's were running out of material in which to build weapons, and at the point it was built, they had to put some sort of weapon in their soldiers hands, anything, and this piece of crap was it.

I do not believe Oswald ever fired the rifle at anything more than soda cans.

He was an idiot, a patsy, and a convenient cover story, that's all.

There are hordes of books, movies, and as well conspiracy theories supporting that Oswald was no marksman, no assassin, and no intelligent man.

He was "tried" via the media, never proven in a court of law to have pulled the trigger, most people forget he was never proven with 100% certainty to have been the assassin, most sheeple rely on the fact that the Government said he was the assassin, taking this as fact, when the evidence is completely provable that he was not the gunman, that the trajectory was completely off, and as well nineteen eye witnesses mysteriously died.

If anyone trusts the official version, they themselves are blind to the evidence.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Regarding the bullet CE 399 found on the stretcher @ Parkland Hopsital, I refer to the comments of the gentleman who first found it:

"That a bullet, fired from Oswald’s weapon and later identified by hospital witnesses, had immediately turned up on a stretcher in the hospital where the victims were treated struck some as perhaps a little too convenient. Suspicions it had been planted ensued. But apart from its peculiar provenance, there was little reason in 1964 to doubt the bullet’s bona fides. But then in 1967, one of the authors reported that one of the two hospital employees who had found the bullet, Parkland personnel director O.P. Wright, had told him that the bullet he saw and held on the day of the assassination did not look like the bullet that later turned up in FBI evidence. That claim was in direct conflict with an FBI memo of July 7, 1964, which said that Wright had told an FBI agent that the bullet did look like the shell he’d held on the day of the murder.

Six Seconds in Dallas reported on an interview with O.P. Wright in November 1966. Before any photos were shown or he was asked for any description of #399, Wright said: “That bullet had a pointed tip.” (See figure 4 @ source)


“Pointed tip?” Thompson asked.

“Yeah, I’ll show you. It was like this one here,” he said, reaching into his desk and pulling out the .30 caliber bullet pictured in Six Seconds.”[8]

As Thompson described it in 1967, “I then showed him photographs of CE’s 399, 572 (the two ballistics comparison rounds from Oswald’s rifle) (sic), and 606 (revolver bullets) (sic), and he rejected all of these as resembling the bullet Tomlinson found on the stretcher. Half an hour later in the presence of two witnesses, he once again rejected the picture of 399 as resembling the bullet found on the stretcher.”

SOURCE


CE399 was a plant, no magic bullet. Ruby was seen at Parkland at the time JFK and Connelly were being treated.

There were more fragments remaining in John Connelly's upper leg and wrist that were missing from CE399.

An a priori fact.

Kennedy was shot with a .223 in the head.
That was the 5.56 mm M16.

could someone kindly post up a youtube link of the mythbusters episode mentioned earlier in the thread? We have only just started getting MB over here in the UK and would love to see what they have done with it.

Also no one should bother with Stones JFK movie its utterly useless and almost not based on any facts beyond JFK was shot...even Oliver Stone admitted "its based on the JFK assasination"

A great film to watch if you can find it though is "Interview with the assasin"
www.imdb.com...

not exactly accurate but very well done.

ok my turn at this,the carcano rifle is a medium powered rifle, and is known for its penetration, why?? is bullet construction!! us bullets have thin copper and or brass jacket with big lead core.carcano bullet has thicker copper jacket and smaller lead core than US bullets,hence better penetration .in Gun Digest 1968 or so they did article duplicating British testing methods of 150 yrs ago they shot 18 inch blocks of hardwood & cut open the blocks and examined the bullets & how far it penetrated,a rifle similar to carcano almost went through the 18 inch block with almost no damage. the so-called magic,or pristen bullet isnt, its slightly damaged, look online for pictures and you can plainly see its slightly bent, and a picture of the base shows its slightly oval not round.but of cource the "news" media wont show the american people these photos, they like the conspiracy,and love that a kenedy is now a martor,and a icon.i think its possible that oswald fired 2 shots, first one went through kennedy and then tore up connaly,next shot hit kennedy in head,only oswald had a good shooting position,every body else had only head shot, a moving target in a moving vehicle also. a very difficlut shot from anywhere.

[edit on 17-12-2009 by madokie]