Frightening!!!!!! (Draft Bailout Bill)

reply to post by kosmicjack


The whole situation is so ugly that to even think what is coming to us is beyond reasoning.

Believed or not is a totalitarian and separated branch of our government system that will be in the hands of people that has nothing in common with us the American citizens.

We now will have two systems of government the Royalty and the commoners.

To use tax payer money to protect their wealth.

In my thread about WTP suing over the AIG bailout I believe I mentioned that the sad truth of modern national governments is that they simply must overstep what purists, libertarians, strict Constitutionalists, et al see as their rightful/legal limitations in order to keep the system functioning. This really just means you have a wild animal and you're using ever more exotic and brutal means to pacify it. Well folks this is the next step-up in the increasingly wild and flagrant displays of extreme measures enacted to keep the system together. With this legislation in place the U.S. Federal government will be just so much more unimaginably gargantuan. I see this as a power grab using the time-honored methods of problem - reaction - solution. Once again the Knights of The D.C. (or Malta, the City of London, and the Scottish Rite if it's more your style) will ride in to rescue the damsel in distress while conveniently amassing ever more power and resources. If it didn't look, act, smell, walk, and talk exactly like 9/11 and the Patriot Act (even the timing is beyond coincidence!) I might be a little less convinced that the same people have blind-sided the same nation yet again.

Congress had to step in at some point, too many nosy inquiring minds asking about where all that Fed bailout money was going to come from. When/if this passes it will show us once again that the Fed does what it wants and Congress handles the paperwork. Rather than seeing the bailouts as a bandage that I believe they should have been, they're being used as the solution, or more precisely the excuse for the solution (this bill). They gave out these massive emergency loans, now they're about to dictate the terms after the fact.

And still, STILL no one is asking the $700,000,000,000 question! Who is responsible? Who is to blame?

I'm also wondering who in their right mind, even as politicians go, would actually ask to inherit this historic mess? If you didn't judge Obama and McCain for anything else, judge them for their active desire to be the one left to sort this out. Only a psychotic megalomaniac would seek to be the President in the middle of this. Unless they knew how it would it turn out. Conspiracists of the world, the floodgates are open.

Congratulations America, you're being fleeced again and they're pulling your own wool over your eyes!

reply to post by marg6043


The other problem is Marg, if this were happening during the week, the markets would be open and reacting, and there would be a lot more flack from constiuents, and all kinds of commentary on the news.

But they are doing it basically in the dead of night for all intents and purposes. Who knows what Monday will look like. As it is, the banning of the short selling of financials on Friday (excuse me - changing the rules in the middle of the game) has already tanked plenty of traders and hedge funds, just wiping them out with no notice. There are negative ramifications to what they did, but that's another thread.

Now this on a weekend? That's what I am really worked up about. The face of this country seems to be changing overnight, and it's at the point we should all be worried about what we are waking up to tomorrow if they actually have the gall to pull a stunt like this.



[edit on 9/20/2008 by Relentless]

reply to post by EtSolveMundi


You know what is so sad my friend, that this time is no new found land to go to, to get away from the tyranny and this emerging entities with unlimited powers.

So, it's pre-revolution france all over again?

Sorry, I am very ignorant.

Also, how do you do that send a message to the representative thing?
Can you send them an email even if you're 14?

Originally posted by Relentless
Apparently the Constitution is of no concern. They will probably throw that in at the last minute. (The Constitution has been repealed to protect the people). *cries*

You mean THIS Constitution?

GOP leaders told Bush that his hardcore push to renew the more onerous provisions of the act could further alienate conservatives still mad at the President from his botched attempt to nominate White House Counsel Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court.

"I don't give a goddamn," Bush retorted. "I'm the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way."

"Mr. President," one aide in the meeting said. "There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution."

"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face," Bush screamed back. "It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"

www.capitolhillblue.com...


Hmmmmm

Originally posted by Relentless

Our forefathers warned about this type of thing, saying it should never happen. (Many of you have the quotes in your signatures). Well, they're about to do it anyway.

Sadly, the Forefathers of the US were idealistic politicians directly inspired by the philosophy of the Enlightement. It is far from being political realism of any sort.

Their liberal political mainframe, as expressed in the USA Constitution, although being full of good principles, was far from having been adapted to the deep contradictions generated by a no-holds-barred capitalist system, with an elitist political system, and a central bank that's not leven under State juridiction. Now the current evens just shows the obvious long-term effects of laissez-faire, malthusian capitalistic economy and its incapacity to prevent monopolies and the consumption off of a nation's resources and wealth by those who gained these monopolies.

You people are gonna have to review that Constitution once you've, well... brought down this government.

reply to post by zorgon


Good God! How much worse can it get than that? Is that a reliable source? My jaws been hanging open since noon, it's almost reached the floor. *trips*

reply to post by Devin Townsend


We have posted several links to the sites that offers E-mail to contact your Representative, just look through the pages of the thread to find them.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Sec. 8. Review.

Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.

Well, I dont know what to say really. Obviously I am incredibly uncomfortable with any language that sets someone up to act with 700 Billion dollars of the taxpayers money with NO possibility of review in a court of law or by an administrative agency.

Henry. . . ? This is George . . . Yeah, I'm fine. Actually not. Those Iranian dudes go on my nerves. Hey, you wouldn't spare like $500 billion, would you?

Originally posted by Devin Townsend
Also, how do you do that send a message to the representative thing?
Can you send them an email even if you're 14?

There are links to your representatives a bit back - 2nd page I think. click the links and they take you to a page to find your Representaives. Don't know that they have any clue how old you are - hey - can't hurt to send your opinion to the people who represent your district - it's your future they are selling off too.

Good for you.

reply to post by Relentless


They are so slick and dirty, now people can see how things are run in Washington, we actually the people of this nation has lost completely control over our own elected government.

... Sadly looking over those provisions I can only think one thing about some of the wording...

This adds strings that basically give unkown parties inside the government the ability to give orders to financial institutions.

Immediatelly my mind wrenched to the bank presidents that in the weeks after 9/11 tried to bring some very strange and ULTRA profitable market transactions to the attention of the world and were forced out of their positions for it.

So now you have pet bankers that by this documents wording can be put under federal employee rules of engagement to gag them when a smoking gun transaction runs through the pipeline.

I wrote the following comments just now in an email, then came here to ATS to post it. Glad to see someone already started the discussion, but here's what I wrote ... it doesn't take a genius so see how this is all VERY BAD.


Some comments and observations about Bush's "rescue plan" ...

First, read it ...
dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com...

This really paves the path to no more private property as it very clearly gives the Treasury the authority to do whatever they want without limitation. And as a bonus, check out this little gem hidden in the back:
//

Sec. 10. Increase in Statutory Limit on the Public Debt.
Subsection (b) of section 3101 of title 31, United States Code, is amended by striking out the dollar limitation contained in such subsection and inserting in lieu thereof $11,315,000,000,000.


Are you kidding me? $11.315 TEEEEEEEEEERILLION DOLLARS! This is an increase from the current limit of $9.815 Trillion. Current public debt is $9.7 Trillion dollars, demonstrating that the only spending restraint these people have is the debt limit, but it's not much of a restraint since they can raise it at will. But anyway, without a doubt you can expect the public debt itself to rise to somewhere around $11.315 Trillion dollars.

I wonder, where did they come up with that number? That's exactly a $1.5 Trillion dollar increase, or about a 13.3% increase. That works out to $37073 per person in the US population.


This is exactly the OPPOSITE of a fix!! Check out this little explanation below, which sums it all up...

From Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org...

The Government Accountability Office (GAO), Office of Management and Budget (OMB) and the U.S. Treasury Department have warned that debt levels will increase dramatically relative to historical levels, due primarily to mandatory expenditures for programs such as Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and interest. Mandatory expenditures are projected to exceed federal tax revenues sometime between 2030 and 2040 if reforms are not undertaken. Further, benefits under entitlement programs will exceed government income by over $40 trillion over the next 75 years.^[17] The severity of the measures necessary to address this challenge increases the longer such changes are delayed. These organizations have stated that the government's current fiscal path is "unsustainable."^[18]

^en.wikipedia.org...

I was driving at the same thing mr. anonymous. In a U2U I just sent I described it as a proto reverse socialism that privatizes gains and sets losses on the shoulders of the masses.

Somewhy this reminds me of how the FED was introduced in the first place... They made a proposal and had it rejected... And then had another party to make more or less the same proposal... under a different headline..

Anyways I would not be surprised if the current draft would be pushed back.. and a more soft core version of the same thing was passed... With no difference to the final result of-course.. but keeping the average citizen calm..

Edit: Perhaps make even McCain as the main voice against this bill.. so that he would seem as the person fighting for the little man... and getting him into the office with the same move?

[edit on 20-9-2008 by Alphard]

But does it save my retirement money invested with AIG?
Or do I still have to go on welfare when present money runs out.

Originally posted by Alphard

Edit: Perhaps make even McCain as the main voice against this bill.. so that he would seem as the person fighting for the little man... and getting him into the office with the same move?

[edit on 20-9-2008 by Alphard]

For the record, McCain did publicly state yesterday that he was rushing back to Washington to stop the bailouts. If he doesn't actually stand up and fight this Bill, his word is worthless.

But - a very interesting take on the possibility that this whole thing was scripted to begin with.

I'll see if I can find the link.

Okay - he didn't say he was rushing back to DC, but I do think he needs to, to put his money where his mouth is.

www.breitbart.com...

GREEN BAY, Wisc. (AP) - John McCain says the Federal Reserve needs to stop bailing out failed financial institutions.
Addressing a business group in Wisconsin, the Republican presidential hopeful said the Fed should get back to what he called "its core business of responsibly managing our money supply and inflation."

He did say this yesterday. Quite frankly if both of the Presidential candidates aren't in DC right now during the biggest crisis this nation has ever faced, neither one gets my vote.




[edit on 9/20/2008 by Relentless]

I feel as though we as taxpayers are being asked to bail out the world. WE regular folks are being dumped on, and our children. Just LOOK what this has all come to. Look at this freaking mess! HOW can this be? HOW can we have let this happen. OMG. Nothing cute here. This is real and very serious, I am worried. I have too many children to raise and NEVER, NEVER would have brought them into this world knowing they face such future adversity. DAMN I am mad. God help us. I cant even write here how I feel. The government playing with OUR hard earned money. Deception, trickery, we are being USED fellow Americans, and we should feel shame for our ignorance and vow to straighten this mess out by making those who are responsible pay. We are between a rock and a hard place right now. Heck, I wouldn't feel so bad about this bailout (which is bad enough) but it plays right into the hands of those OTHER groups wishing to control us who feel they have a right to use our money to serve their interests., taking OUR rights away. Destroying our country to prolong their greed another decade or so. I know one thing, millions and millions of us here in this country have a long ways to go, and we will NOT sit by idley and let this continue to happen. We will not go quietly. Be forwarned.