Frightening!!!!!! (Draft Bailout Bill)

Hi There,

There is also another unknown 'X' factor that might have to be taken into consideration, and that is how the rest of the world takes to the American bailout? Some countries may not think it the right way to go (and here I am seeing the purpose of the American Treasury 'bribe' of taking on the world's bad debt), they might start ditching the dollar?

To be sure, I say bring on the meltdown. Let the chips fall where they may, at least it will bring down the most cancerous government ever to take American office. None will escape the devastation, if there's no financial infrastructure (temporary that is, until the American people regain and take charge of their country again), how are the rich going to benefit? Yes it will be painful, and it will be quite a slog to put things right, but what a righteous righting it will be.

Kick out the current government, kick out the weasling senate and house of reps; never has the moment been so propitious for you all. Hey wait a minute...do I spy a cloud with a silver lining? Wow!

reply to post by elysiumfire


I don't think it's terrorism either, I was just trying to clarify Cramer's point. The effect they were trying to broadcast was terror, but that's what I expect from the media.

What you said about short sellers is basically true, that's their role in the markets. I don't think anyone here is arguing that they're a negative force, they're the ones who clean up the mess, but now the SEC has halted that because it was going too far by some metrics.

If there was a total financial meltdown, what would be uncovered from the investigations that would eventually follow?

Well, I'd say massive corruption, illegal practices, government involvement, a huge scandal. I am beginning to see a link between this and the destruction of WTC 7 and the millions of financial documents and evidence housed therein. There is a massive amount of corruption here and they need to get rid of the evidence in private. It's been years in the making and involves far more than just 5 or 6 commercial banks. With this new bailout bill and the possibility of a new RTC all the evidence, the cooked books, the balance sheets, transaction records, it will all be nationalized and disappear forever.

The Backlash Started this morning on the news shows. found 2 articles about it and started threads about them.

You can find them here
Many economists skeptical of bailout

Paulson resists calls for added help in bailout

Mr. Paulson had a busy morning Sunday morning

Found this earlier also

The U.S. Treasury late yesterday modified its proposal to allow for purchases from institutions outside of the U.S., a step Paulson today said was needed to mute the impact of the credit crisis in the U.S. ``As you think about this, if a financial institution has business operations in the United States, hires people in the United States, if they are clogged with illiquid assets, they have the same impact on the American people as any other institutions,'' he told ABC News.

SOURCE

Edit to add

[edit on 9/21/2008 by Mercenary2007]

The following should be kept in mind regarding financial news

at the very least things will be very intresting over the next year or two

a economic collapse depends on a a couple factors......it is difficult to assume the u.s will follow in the footsteps of other country's (with our historical debt levels/situations ) because we hold a trump card (we have the world's reserve currency the petro dollar)!

one big question is wether the U.S dollar survives THRU the BAILOUTS (which will be continue into 2009) .......which pretty much depends on wether our foregin CREDITORS and OPEC continue to price oil in dollars....and buy up treasury debt.....which makes the dollar the world reserve currency. THIS depends on what the Old money family's and there croney's (bilderbergers/ trilateral commission have destined for the world!!

this (petro dollar) is what allows us the gov't to spend $$ with about as much care as letting a fart go ...........the IMF and World BANK's are our dollar PIMPS .......want to read a good book (confessions of an economic hitman) en.wikipedia.org...

they *TRY* to indebt 3'rd world nations up 2 their eyeballs (*beyond any ability to pay it back*) and then we go in and say.....well you have a problem you can't pay your loans.....but don't worry........see all those nice valuable commodity's you have in the ground.......we will take those off your hands (and the 3'rd world officials look the other way 4 $) and you can just make lower payments on intrest for awhile or in some cases the debt is erased in exchange for the commodity's and political favors and/or black market deals.

we will have a ecnonomic slowdown because the banks have very little capital, regardless of getting bad debt of their books........they will still need capital injections from Soverign Wealth Funds from our "trusty arab/opec friends" which will be something else to watch for.......but regarless there business model is BROKEN...........the securitization debt market is DONE and this was the investment banks cash cow for the last 5 years. lending will be restricted for almost everything. Should the upper class cut spending back much the service sector (the majority of our work force) could go into a tailspin. It is unforuntate that doing something good like lowering taxes for the middle class and increasing them for the rich may actually increase the chance for something like this .....at least in a limited way

p.s if you disagree with congress rushing thru the bailout which one economist says gives bush some "dictator powers" here is a link to some congressman emails/ # (who may be sympathetic to american's)

globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com...



[edit on 21-9-2008 by cpdaman]

ARMY: Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team has spent 35 of the last 60 months in Iraq patrolling in full battle rattle, helping restore essential services and escorting supply convoys.

Now they’re training for the same mission — with a twist — at home.

Beginning Oct. 1 for 12 months, the 1st BCT will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command, as an on-call federal response force for natural or manmade emergencies and disasters, including terrorist attacks.

[edit on 21-9-2008 by shermanium]

not sure if this was posted yet,i read up to page 8 last night but i just found this page source info says from 2002!? this is just one section that startled me.


"A WORD ABOUT HOUSING

Most Americans believe that their homes are their last, best retirement insurance. Yet many Americans have mortgaged their homes for 120 percent of value. Their loans are backed with the full faith and credit of the U.S. government through various agencies such as Ginnie Mae, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Housing Authority.

The International Forecaster has predicted that 40 percent of Fannie and Freddie s loans are going to come back and haunt them. We envision an S&L type bailout of $2.4 trillion down the road. This will be the biggest financial disaster in history.

The full faith and credit of the U.S. government lie behind these home loans. If the homeowners go broke in an economic crash, they default. If the U.S. government goes broke -- before or after that point -- it defaults, and the holders of U.S. debt ultimately have the right (especially under WTO and globalization) to foreclose on the collateral -- your home loans. In the worst case scenario most of the United States could legally be owned by all of the countries holding U.S. debt -- better described as T-Bills, or U.S. gold, or U.S. stocks."

you can view the whole page here:


www.rense.com...


another funny thing a side not really (www.google.com...) just throw that in your url search bar minus the ( ) funny what comes up

I don't know what to expect, and i'm not sure if project bluebook came up in this discussion or another post i was reading but i think its ridiculous and completely believable at the same time which frightens me a bit, but i suppose that's what they want. In the end descartes argument comes to mind.... wtf else can i trust but my own mind, if everything else can possibly be an illusion?

not sure if it has been said, but they plan on bailing out foreign banks toowww.politico.com...

i posted an anonymous post before deciding that i wanted to post again so i just registered so there might be a double post here but i wanted to get this out here, apparently in 2002 there was an entire report written on our financial situation.

here is one quote:

"A WORD ABOUT HOUSING

Most Americans believe that their homes are their last, best retirement insurance. Yet many Americans have mortgaged their homes for 120 percent of value. Their loans are backed with the full faith and credit of the U.S. government through various agencies such as Ginnie Mae, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Housing Authority.

The International Forecaster has predicted that 40 percent of Fannie and Freddie s loans are going to come back and haunt them. We envision an S&L type bailout of $2.4 trillion down the road. This will be the biggest financial disaster in history.

The full faith and credit of the U.S. government lie behind these home loans. If the homeowners go broke in an economic crash, they default. If the U.S. government goes broke -- before or after that point -- it defaults, and the holders of U.S. debt ultimately have the right (especially under WTO and globalization) to foreclose on the collateral -- your home loans. In the worst case scenario most of the United States could legally be owned by all of the countries holding U.S. debt -- better described as T-Bills, or U.S. gold, or U.S. stocks."


here is the rest of the report: www.rense.com...

second edit: www.rense.com...

another report dating 06'

cant remember what else i wanted to say but im sure it will show up if my previous post appears. we are in some mess here :/



[edit on 22-9-2008 by asafum]

[edit on 22-9-2008 by asafum]

i posted this in another thread but it fits here also. I've been working on this since seeing this thread Saturday Just didn't have all the facts to it until now.

The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, also known as the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Financial Services Modernization Act, Pub. L. No. 106-102, 113 Stat. 1338 (November 12, 1999), is an Act of the United States Congress which repealed part of the Glass-Steagall Act, opening up competition among banks, securities companies and insurance companies. The Glass-Steagall Act prohibited a bank from offering investment, commercial banking, and insurance services.

The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (GLBA) allowed commercial and investment banks to consolidate. For example, Citibank merged with Travelers Group, an insurance company, and in 1998 formed the conglomerate Citigroup, a corporation combining banking and insurance underwriting services. Other major mergers in the financial sector had already taken place such as the Smith-Barney, Shearson, Primerica and Travelers Insurance Corporation combination in the mid-1990s. This combination, announced in 1993 and finalized in 1994, would have violated the Glass-Steagall Act and the Bank Holding Acts by combining insurance and securities companies, if not for a temporary waiver process [1]. The law was passed to legalize these mergers on a permanent basis. Historically, the combined industry has been known as the financial services industry.

SOURCE

So basically the roots for todays mess started under the Clinton admin. When congress allow the banks to regulate themselves and take the government out of the loop.

WHAT'S SO SCARY about the entire mess is that the guys (they are mostly men, white men) who created the mess, or were a part of its creation, are the same guys who are in charge of a solution. Take Ben Bernanke, the Fed chairman: In 2004, he talked about the "new moderation" in, and the "stability" of, the financial system and economic life. Hank Paulsen, former CEO of Goldman Sachs, who was so much a part of the mayhem that is unraveling and a strong proponent of further deregulation, is the man at the helm of the Treasury Department. These are the people that are devising the new policies that are supposed to squelch the hemorrhage. Most of their advisers come from the financial world, a bunch of them directly from Goldman Sachs. They created the problems with the clapping approval of Congress (in utter bipartisanship, always happy to rake in huge sums of money from Wall Street) and all the White House tenants, all the way back to Ronald Reagan and Jimmy Carter. In other words, the people responsible for the problems (though you too, dear readers, share responsibility -- at least those of you who have lived on credit for the past three decades and repeatedly voted for those bums) are in charge of the solution. Talk about the fox guarding the henhouse!

SOURCE thanks SD i knew this would come in handy. everyone should really read the whole thing from beginning to end a few times.

So the same people that engineered this mess are now in charge of fixing it.
This bailout Bill that was leaked Saturday DRAFT HERE will cover up their tracks and in turn it will hand over the keys to this Country to Ben Bernanke, the Fed chairman. All the while pushing the middle class and lower class into slavery for a generation or more to pay for the cover up. At the same time we have a small percentage of congress saying they want more protections for the tax payers But an even larger percentage saying the will give Bush what he wants which is this Bailout bill. Bernanke will make all the financial institutions a federal agency and all the employees federal agents.

So now we have it. Bush inherited this crisis in waiting from Clinton. Paulson Writes the legislation that Bush is trying to push through Congress, To give Bernanke All the power that the Fed Needs to take over this country. Now will Bernanke crown himself King or will he give the crown to Bush? After the dust Settles Paulson will be given his reward for his role in this COUP. a pine box and a national funeral.
POSTED IN THIS THREAD

Bernanke and Paulson are handing out money we don't have to foreign Banks to shore up their economies because they know whats coming this week. The full collapse of the U.S. economy. they are trying to limit the impacts on the global economy, BUt this will fail also. The U.S. economy is to large for the global economy to absorb if it collapses.

[edit on 9/22/2008 by Mercenary2007]

I don't think anyone has posted this yet but I've done some digging.

Let's recap!

Sec. 7. Funding. For the purpose of the authorities granted in this Act, and for the costs of administering those authorities, the Secretary may use the proceeds of the sale of any securities issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, and the purposes for which securities may be issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, are extended to include actions authorized by this Act, including the payment of administrative expenses. Any funds expended for actions authorized by this Act, including the payment of administrative expenses, shall be deemed appropriated at the time of such expenditure.

But what is it exactly is Chapter 31 of Title 31?

Oh, there it is!

I'm about to head to bed and hope for the best but for those of you who want to take the time, look at what all that covers. It's uhh... I don't really know much else to say about it. Tomorrow hopefully I'll get some time to look at the other sources for their draft. It helps me get a better idea of what to expect. Again.. It's just basically a jaw dropper to me, some of it anyway after reading into it. Some of it just leaves me a bit speechless.

If someone else has already covered this, than kudos to you and sorry for repeating!

"For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
August 26, 2008

National Preparedness Month, 2008
A Proclamation by the President of the United States of America
During National Preparedness Month, we underscore the important responsibility Americans have to be ready for emergencies in our homes, businesses, and communities.

The Department of Homeland Security's Ready campaign highlights preparedness steps, including having an emergency supply kit, making a family emergency plan, and becoming informed about different types of emergencies. After preparing themselves and their families, Americans can take the next step and get involved in helping to prepare their communities for all types of emergencies. For more information, citizens may visit www.ready.gov and citizencorps.gov.

During National Preparedness Month, we also honor our Nation's police officers, firefighters, and emergency personnel for their hard work and commitment to protecting others. As first responders, they have demonstrated the true meaning of heroism by taking great risks to safeguard our communities, and all Americans are grateful for their efforts.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim September 2008 as National Preparedness Month. I call upon the people of the United States to recognize the importance of preparing for potential emergencies and to observe this month by participating in appropriate events, activities, and preparedness programs.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this twenty-sixth day of August, in the year of our Lord two thousand eight, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirty-third.

GEORGE W. BUSH"

this quote found here: www.whitehouse.gov...

perfect timing! wait... i mean the opposite... maybe national preparedness sept 76' (1776) to prepare us for the future gov't we have now... whose definition of democracy = rule over people... :/

reply to post by asafum


Welcome to ATS as a member!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes you bring a very important point and one that I covered in a thread Over a year ago bout US government should bail out homeowners, back when the housing started to collapse and China came exposed in the loses as they buy into the US debt along with Japan and the UK on the top 3.

It became obvious back then of whom the various countries that are up to their neck in the housing mortgage give away were.

See the big financial institutions that sold the paper on the mortgages and cause the bubble crash did it out of greed as they sold this papers for profit on a all world merry go around.

So yes you are right is obvious now that bailing out bankers ann who knows what else globally is in an effort to keep whatever countries has invested the most on that housing give away.

But as we know our nation has been for sale for a long time and is not only the housing that was on that open sale but also many of our industries and also many of the financial institutions that were knee deep on the housing mess.

That includes Countries like Saudi Arabia, the Emirates, China, Singapore and Korea.

They all injected liquidity on the financial institutions last year during this time when they stated to have troubles.

So even when it sound like something that is the right thing to do or "at least that is how has been sold to us" actually increasing the national debt to unrealistic sums that none tax payer for generations will be able to make a dent on it, will actually make the US a very risky nation to do business with.



[edit on 22-9-2008 by marg6043]

reply to post by marg6043

I just came across this An Open Letter to the U.S. Congress Regarding the Current Financial Crisis, marg6043. It's a much better solution than Paulson and his cronies have cooked up. The best solution I've heard yet.

With regard to assisting homeowners, purchasing the bad mortgage securities from financial institutions will do nothing to help those homeowners because it does nothing to alter the cash flows expected of them. Congress will be a far better steward of public funds by offering distressed homeowners what amounts to a refinancing, coupled with a partial surrender of future appreciation.

In practice, the homeowner would default on the existing mortgage, but the government would purchase the foreclosed property at an amount near existing foreclosure recovery rates (presently about 50% of mortgage face value). The government would then sell that home back to the owner with a zero-equity mortgage, allowing individuals to keep their homes. Importantly, there would be an additional, marketable lien placed on the property itself in the form of what might be called a “Property Appreciation Receipt” (PAR), which would be provided to the original mortgage lender. Though it would accrue no interest, it would provide a claim to the original lender on any appreciation in the value of the home up to the difference between the foreclosure proceeds and the original mortgage amount. Note that the PAR would only become relevant at the point that the government was fully repaid.

For example, consider a homeowner with a $300,000 mortgage balance on a home now worth less than the mortgage balance itself. The government would buy the foreclosed property at say, $200,000 and mortgage it to the existing homeowner. The original lender would receive $200,000, plus a Property Appreciation Receipt (PAR), giving it a claim on $100,000 of any future appreciation of the property. If the homeowner was to sell the property later for, say, $250,000, the owner of the PAR would receive $50,000, and there would be a remaining lien on future appreciation of that same property, which would be assumed by the new buyer. If the next buyer sold the home for $250,000, no funds would be due to the PAR holder, but if it was sold for $275,000, another $25,000 would be payable. At any point the home was to sell for more than $300,000, the PAR would be fully repaid and there would be no further claim.

Some provision would have to be made for the appreciation of an unsold home, but that detail could be accomplished through some form of equity extraction refinancing. To account for time value, the claim on future appreciation could be increased at a small rate of interest. Though the credit impact of a mortgage default would likely be sufficient to dissuade solvent homeowners from making inappropriate use of the program, the government could impose additional costs or eligibility requirements to avoid such risks.

by John P. Hussman, Ph.D. @ www.hussmanfunds.com


[edit on 22-9-2008 by Areal51]

reply to post by Areal51


Thanks for adding the link to the thread is see is now more groups working trying to made the congress aware that while we have a problem the fed proposed resolution may not be the one in the best interest of the nation and neither the tax payer.

I also was pleasantly surprised to see and hear how many people are PISSED OFF about how this bailout plan is structured. (ie; for the banks and wall street, not for people.)

On CNN this weekend, I heard several people say exactly what I have been thinking, which is;

If this mess is being caused by a failure or a crumbling of the FOUNDATION of the American economy, (the people, their mortgages, etc) why the heck are we dumping more money on the "top?" if nothing is done to repair the crumbling foundation, you can re-roof all you want and you still have a screwed up structure.

Its just another effort at "trickle down" economics when we know that doesnt work, when what has been shown to work, over and over again, (as evidenced by the wealthy) is trickle UP economics. What is saving the banks and loaning institutions going to do when if the problem isnt addressed where it originated, with the people on the bottom of the economic pyramid who are losing their jobs, homes, etc.? Not just financial institutions but most of our economy relies on consumers, and consumer confidence. If the problem isnt addressed at that bottom line, and people kept in their homes, and given relief immediately from those "stepped up" mortgage rates, we are just going to see a different sort of melt down in other sectors of the economy in the near future.

Regardless whether the banks are bailed out, if large numbers of working Americans end up homeless, or are close to homelessness, there is no way they can continue with the normal spending that the whole of the economy relies on. What are we going to do then? Bail out even more corporations?

You cant lose 650,000 jobs, AND raise mortgage rates, AND have so many people under crushing credit card debt, AND be spending out of control around the world financing wars that really only benefit the very wealthy, in such a short period of time.

And for the person who pointed out that the deregulation of banks occurred under Clinton, you are right. So did NAFTA. So did the deregulation that allowed media to become so concentrated we hear rubbish instead of news 98% of the time.

But this does not mean that the Republican party is good, or better, they are the ones racking up debt like there is no tomorrow. Starting wars, undermining the Constitution, etc.

The truth as I see it is, we dont HAVE two parties anymore. We have one, America Inc. Corporate interests own both parties, there is one agenda, and the main difference is how the agenda is sold to us. The Democratic soft sell, or the Republican shove it down our throats. It is a game of good cop/ bad cop. Or more aptly, like professional wrestling, where a big fight is put on to get us all stirred up, and lots of blood is shed in the "ring" with grudge matches, etc., but at the end of the day they are all on the same side. It just isnt OUR side.

[edit on 22-9-2008 by Illusionsaregrander]

WHAT'S SO SCARY about the entire mess is that the guys (they are mostly men, white men) who created the mess, or were a part of its creation, are the same guys who are in charge of a solution. Take Ben Bernanke, the Fed chairman: In 2004, he talked about the "new moderation" in, and the "stability" of, the financial system and economic life. Hank Paulsen, former CEO of Goldman Sachs, who was so much a part of the mayhem that is unraveling and a strong proponent of further deregulation, is the man at the helm of the Treasury Department. These are the people that are devising the new policies that are supposed to squelch the hemorrhage. Most of their advisers come from the financial world, a bunch of them directly from Goldman Sachs. They created the problems with the clapping approval of Congress (in utter bipartisanship, always happy to rake in huge sums of money from Wall Street) and all the White House tenants, all the way back to Ronald Reagan and Jimmy Carter. In other words, the people responsible for the problems (though you too, dear readers, share responsibility -- at least those of you who have lived on credit for the past three decades and repeatedly voted for those bums) are in charge of the solution. Talk about the fox guarding the henhouse!

Hmmm. I said that yesterday as well: That it is incredible that Bernanke, who created this problem, is now part of the solution and used the Fox and Henhouse analogy too. In a different thread. This thread is also worth reading as it made my blood boil and on the same subject. Article is from March this year.
www.abovetopsecret.com...&mem=Lebowski+achi ever

To protest this bailout plan, we should all go to our banks and withdraw all of our money.

Withdrawing all your cash and turning it into things to help you through the crisis to come is the prudent thing to do.

Do it now!

Take out all your money.

Buy all the food and water and gas you can with what you get.

Tell your friends and family to do the same thing.

We have to teach these bankers a lesson.

It's the wise thing to do.

Do it now before it's too late.

But, since ATS is a Front for the CIA, I doubt this advice will see the light of day on this board.

Any message of value posted here is quickly deleted, or not allowed to see the light of day. You are being controlled.

As PT Barnum said "There is a sucker broken every minute."

some news from CNBC

Dems' Revised Bailout Bill Overview
Lobbying Machine Gets Into Gear
More on the Dems' Bailout Plan

Some numbers:
DOW: 11111 (-276)
NASDAQ: 2205 (-68)
S&P: 1219 (-35)

Commodities are coming back strong though

reply to post by EtSolveMundi


I like the limitation of power but is not specific enough to be understood, the same way that is not limit of which fat rats big and small are the ones that will get in the new merry go around the government is giving away at the expenses of tax payer.

It seems that already lobbyist from smaller firms in trouble are trying to get their entire debt erases including those that are not linked to the mortgage mess.