Will NASA cause a shuttle "accident" to distract from election, etc.??!!

Originally posted by Mercenary2007
reply to post by peacejet

 

If something were to happen to the rescue shuttle they could rescue the atlantis crew then dock with the ISS and stay there until Nasa could get a third shuttle up to rescue them or bring supplies to fix that shuttle.

Unless it explodes on liftoff. then all bets are off on what would happen but it wouldn't be good.



[edit on 20-9-2008 by Mercenary2007]

That would be impossible the hubble and ISS are at different orbits, the hubble is inclined at around 58 degrees and iss at 25 degrees, I am not sure of the exact values and changing the orbit by one degree requires massive amount of fuel and there would be no fuel left for powering the shuttle and moreover the ISS has only one docking port for the shuttle.

If you can get atlantis to a lower orbit to meet endeavour then Endeavour would be able to meet the ISS. Which if they had to launch the rescue ship Nasa would want it at a lower orbit if they could use atlantis to get there. just encase something did happen to endeavour they would have the ISS as the backup for the backup. They wouldn't send the rescue shuttle to hubbles orbit unless they had to.

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
I'll go ahead and say, and with all due appologies to the OP, *if* NASA engineers a shuttle disaster to delay the elections I'll be the first to come here and videotape myself eating my hat... Hell, I'll eat my underwear also... and THEN I'll volunteer to lead the march on 1600 Pennsylvania Ave..

That'll have to do for now. If that isn't good enough, I don't know what to tell you.

Good, locked in cyberspace forever.

I am only halfway through this thread, and felt the need to comment before continuing.

I am not a Rocket Scientist. I read an article, saw some coincidences, saw the context the author put the statements in, and realized how neatly tied up a package this would be.

Imagine the coverage of such an event!!!

Sorry I did not do more research and took the article at face value.

It is the article that implies that it is a big deal, not me.

But thanks for the contributions, as unlike a politician, I want to inspire debate, not blind loyalty.

Also Endeavour will be loaded with the payload for its next mission which is going to the ISS. before Atlantis launches to Hubble.

So that telle me Nasa is planning on a lower earth orbit transfer if they have to use the rescue option. then once the atlantis crew is safe they would continue on with endeavours mission to the ISS then come home.

There is no way for 2 shuttles to dock together so they would have to get the 2 shuttles close to eachother and then have the Atlantis crew spacewalk over to endeavour. they would also wait to launch endeavour until there meet would be at a lower orbit.

reply to post by Mercenary2007


How could this happen?

I know it is a little far fetched to admit this theory as plausible, but I will stick with logical scenarios.

The space shuttle repairs the hubble, and then notices either tile damage from liftoff, or from space junk hitting it in it's crappy orbiting position. (science terms, you like??)
However, maybe it is safe to land... Desperate for new funding, and interest, NASA makes a big deal of this, and says that it can't land, forcing a heroic SPACE rescue!!

You can apply any agenda to this scenario, with the goal of occupying the minds on our astronauts... (who will naturally be saved at the last minute...)

I can get crazy here, with help from the Russians, (talk about getting on an even keel with them again...) or even "Alien" involvement.

I don't think it all that ridiculous when you consider who would benefit from such a scenario. Remember, the fleet is being mothballed anyway, right?



[edit on 20-9-2008 by jasonjnelson]

Originally posted by Mercenary2007
Also Endeavour will be loaded with the payload for its next mission which is going to the ISS. before Atlantis launches to Hubble.

So that telle me Nasa is planning on a lower earth orbit transfer if they have to use the rescue option. then once the atlantis crew is safe they would continue on with endeavours mission to the ISS then come home.

There is no way for 2 shuttles to dock together so they would have to get the 2 shuttles close to eachother and then have the Atlantis crew spacewalk over to endeavour. they would also wait to launch endeavour until there meet would be at a lower orbit.

I object to this you had seen my earlier thread about the rescue mission, it is possible to get two space shuttles close to each other,

And regarding the lowering of orbit once the orbit altitude has been programmed into the shuttle for the mission, it cannot be overriden and the thrusters fire automatically if there is a orbit decay of more than ten feet thats how precise the computers are.

[edit on 20-9-2008 by peacejet]

reply to post by jasonjnelson


Anything is possible. Would nasa attempt it? I doubt it.

Yes the Shuttles are going into mothballs in a couple of years However Nasa is already working on its replacement. to bad they are moving away from a shuttle type system and going back to capsules like apollo used.

and even with that we will rely on the russian to get our astronauts to the ISs until the new system is up and running.

Plus Nasa needs all the shuttles they have now to finish construction of the ISS and a shuttle loss right now would end the shuttle program and leave the ISS unfinished. How can Nasa sell their interest in an unfinished space station?

But after Columbia If nasa lost another Shuttle that would be the end of Nasa. Congress would pull the plug on all their funding So its not really a benefit to them to lose another shuttle.

I don't know how they could tie in alien involvemnt remember they claim aliens don't exist. so the sudden involvement in aliens saving or attacking a shuttle would require a lot of the gov't eatting their hats. and we know they don't like doing that.

I know you took the article at face value and its the article thats making it seem like a big deal with 2 shuttles sitting on the launch pads at the same time.

This is the first time Nasa has had to stage a 2nd shuttle as a rescue mission in the history of the shuttle program. The shuttle program is just something i follow and know a lil bit about.

But the theories you have about this are a lil far fetched. given the fallout nasa would face losing another shuttle.

reply to post by Mercenary2007


It is physically impossible for Endeavor to met Atlantis and then go to the ISS. The difference in the inclincation of the orbits is too extreme. It simply can't be done.

Alright, awake again, a little refreshed although a little hung-over.

Something I'd like to add. The business of launching shuttles is a serious and risky one. I find it hard to believe that the Gov. would take the risk of sending up lives and SO MUCH money merely for distraction purposes. Hell, what if the rescue mission went sour? nothing would beat a double-disaster, would it?

Now, I'm not saying such a thing WOULD happen, but that it would be a HUGE risk. Especially once we here at ATS got ahold of the facts. Eh, I'm having a hard time... formulating... thoughts...

How about this for PR? Exagerated claims about the danger of the primary mission. So they scrap the mission and leave the astronauts stranded until the secondary shuttle can get airborne. The second shuttle blows up. Now they have a full-blown space-disaster on their hands. For what? A distraction? No way. Why spend that much money on such a thing when they can just generate another Britney Spears story to accomplish the same thing. With Britney Spears, they don't have to spend 30 billion dollars. Just give the $lut some crack and a well-hung dude.

The people at NASA are very concerned with the safety of their astronauts. Look at what happened to the entire program, including funding, after the Columbus disaster. They are not in the business of taking more risks than they are already dealing with. This is a safety precaution and nothing more...

Now, on the space program in general, I think it is much more interesting to speculate on the possibility of a secret program all together. But that's another thread.

[edit on 20-9-2008 by Jay-in-AR]

reply to post by nataylor

It is possible as long as Endeavour does not have to go to Hubbles Orbit! they can Launch Endeavour to meet with the ISS and while on its way to the ISS they would have Atlantis get close to Endeavour and move atlantis' crew over to endeavour then continue its chase of the ISS.

The only way that Endeavour would not be able to meet the ISS is if they had to go to an orbit higher than the ISS. Remember if they have to Launch Endeavour as a rescue they would launch it a week after Atlantis's launch. That means they would have Atlantis lowering its orbit to below the ISS orbit so Endeavour could carry on to the ISS.

Why do you think Nasa is loading the payload bay of Endeavour with its payload for the ISS for STS-126 now and not after atlantis lands? Because they are planning on if they have to launch Endeavour to rescue the atlantis crew they WILL meet the ISS and complete Endeavours mission! I've been following this since they announced that STS-125 would go to hubble!

@ the OP i thought about it lastnight and the only group i could see benefitting from this happening is the Airforce. Because then they would HAve control of what is launched in space in the U.S. and would force the private companies out of the loop also.

reply to post by Mercenary2007


And thanks for all of the information here!

Not everything I see is "real", as defined by mass opinion and perception.

However, it never hurts to discuss the possibility. (keeps those buggers on their toes!)

Good point one really good disaster and spaceship two and everyone else could be indefinitelly grounded... especially if said accident involved misfires of thrusters that plowed an abandoned shuttle into a major metroplex at beyond hypersonic speeds.

i did find a better answer to PeaceJets question about how they would bring atlantis back and burn her up in the atmosphere and the procedure of transferring the crew to endeavour.

If a rescue was required, Endeavour - with a reduced crew of four - would launch one week after Atlantis. Endeavour would arrive at the stricken Atlantis, before Atlantis grappled on to Endeavour via her robotic arm. Endeavour's robotic arm would be used to help transfer the crew via the two orbiters. A full day's worth of EVAs would take place, transporting the seven crew members of the STS-125 to Endeavour, before ungrappling Atlantis ahead of the return home. Depending on the severity of Atlantis' damage, NASA would make a decision on whether to take the option of trying to bring her home unmanned (via the RCO option), or seal her fate via a controlled, destructive, tail first re-entry. However, such scenarios are deemed extremely unlikely, especially with the array of on orbit repair capabilities that will fly with Atlantis to Hubble, even if there was a serious damage event that warranted repair.

Source

This source is a forum that was put together by employees of nasa to answer questions about nasa. away from Nasa's influence

They have a free setion that has a lot of info but they also have a paid membership section that has alot more info and videos and you name it.

[edit on 20-9-2008 by Mercenary2007]

reply to post by Mercenary2007


You are simply wrong. The Shuttle does not have enough thruster fuel to adjust from an inclination of 28.5 degrees (HST) to the 51.6 degrees (ISS). That is a HUGE change in orbit. The whole reason they have Endeavor ready to go is because the ISS can not be used as a safe haven for the Hubble Service Mission.

Also, they have not loaded the main payload (the MPLM) on Endeavor yet. They won't until after Atlantis returns and Endeavor is moved from Pad 39B to 39A.

LOL ,Sounds like a episode of ( V ) the mini series ( really) >.really .Got to be kidding ? .

reply to post by nataylor


they were scheduled to load Endeavors Payload today! What your not understanding is they will bring atlantis to an orbit that will allow for Endeavour to reach The ISS. That is why Endeavour would launch a week after atlantis if needed.

Maybe before saying someone is wrong do a little research on NASA rescue plan my friend.

edit to add: Endeavour can carry enough fuel to reach the ISS from a stop at a lower orbit to pick up the atlantis crew. remember endeavour would launch with a crew of 4 and has the capablity to recharge its power cells from the ISS. Atlantis does not have that capablity. it is atlantis that cannot reach the ISS after going to the Hubble. they won't have enough fuel to reach the ISS.

[edit on 9/20/2008 by Mercenary2007]

Originally posted by jasonjnelson

SO, here is my theory...
The markets are collapsing, war is imminent, there is a huge election..... and what?

War with who Jason? This election is no bigger than any other election. Sure there is an African American candidate but when are elections ever not a big deal?

reply to post by Mercenary2007


Show me one document somewhere that indicates Endeavor will go to the ISS after docking with Atlantis. You can't, because it's impossible. The amount of fuel required to move a vehicle the size of the Shuttle, going 18,000mph, by 23.1 degrees is huge. Not to mention the change in altitude. Even if you split the difference saying that Atlantis will move half the way and Endeavor will move the rest of the way, it's still impossible.

en.wikipedia.org...

www.nasaspaceflight.com...

No mention of the ISS there. But there is mention that Atlantis' mission length is 7 days if launched as STS-400. Sorry, but 7 days isn't enough to launch, get on orbit, dock with Atlantis, transfer the crew, move to the ISS, install the MPLM, undock, and land.

And here's general information on changing orbital inclination:

en.wikipedia.org...





[edit on 20-9-2008 by nataylor]

reply to post by nataylor


You're absolutely right. Without artificial gravity amplifiers, creating an artificial "wind" in space, the amount of energy required to overpower the craft's velocity would be enormous.

Edit to add. You can't simply turn the craft to an alternate route in a vacuum. You would just spin out of control if you can't burn enough fuel to overcome the TWO STAGES you have already burnt to get you moving at that velocity in the first place.



[edit on 20-9-2008 by Jay-in-AR]

[edit on 20-9-2008 by Jay-in-AR]

reply to post by nataylor


You still don't get it they would launch Endeavour to an orbit to where it could reach the ISS and have Atlantis meet Endeavour at that Orbit.

Anytime a shuttle goes to the ISS it doesn't go straight there it launches to an orbit lower than the ISS then does an OMS burn to increase its speed and raise its altitude. Which would be exactly what Endeavour would do. They would launch to the shuttles standard orbit wait for Atlantis then continue on. it doesn't take as much fuel as you think. Plus with a reduced Crew they can Use the O2 for Fuel also then once docked with The ISS they can refuel the O2 tanks.

But anyways we've derailed this topic enough. Nasa won't need to launch Endeavour as a rescue Because they can't afford to lose another shuttle!