is every Meier photo a fake ?

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by internos
Once one is proven to be an hoaxer, he should be BANNED from serious discussions.

Okay so where are the dreaded ATS "HOAX" tags on the Billy Meier threads to let everyone know it has been declared a HOAX?

And why is this particular one such a sore spot with people here anyway? I mean it was opinions in that other thread that got John into hot water as tempers flared.

There have been a lot of hoaxers pass this way, but this story won't go away... yet the experts once again into the fray to keep it alive rather than use the "Its been discussed HERE... and leave it at that.

Seems for some reason a major nerve has been severed with this story

Ron, i KNOW what you mean, and i know that John was there: as well, i know also about all the rumors surrounding the story, and I have been there myself, and of course not with the purpose to debunk the story.
Once i was camping with three people, all part of Billy's CULT. What you would find surprising is that if you try to show them some evidence proving that there may be some hoax they simply would close their eyes.
This is the difference between an average believer and a member of a CULT. I don't wanna discuss the experience of the guy: i wanna narrow my view on the facts: and the facts spells disaster. As said, there are NO apparent reasons to make all this up, but the absence of motive does NOT mean automatically absence of crime: just a question... How comes that it never happened a MASS SIGHTING in Switzerland? Are those aliens so squeamish that they wanna appear only to this guy? Come on, Ron, the guy has serious problems of credibility

What Aliens.. total nonsense.

Mind control is a bad thing.

The Billy Meier episode sounds like a test proving ground for the
international cartel of Tesla free energy UFOs and saucers so they
could further test what people will believe past Roswell.. send them
to Switzerland.


If Meier was a hoax, so was Roswell.

easynow... one of Meier ?

Yes, that is quite ornate.

I'd say requiring a full size one, or a real flying saucer.

Any size or shape or man made weight and be a causer because
electrical momentum is more powerful.

I saw those amazing photos easynow.. must look some more
on the last page.
This is back in time when one could get clear photos of saucers.

Well.. no time holes or dimensions.. or ETs from Spielberg and the
Illuminati but regular time that we are in.

String on top... yes perhaps a visual indication of the suspension
beam from the Tesla 'bulb'.. and there are 12 locations around
the circumference of the saucer.

The variables of electrical engineering requiring the saucer shape
as minimal.

reply to post by zorgon

Okay so where are the dreaded ATS "HOAX" tags on the Billy Meier threads to let everyone know it has been declared a HOAX?

I found this thread about Billy Meier that has those dreaded "HOAX" tags.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
_________________________________________________________________
I find it very possible that Billy once in his life had some sort of an encounter.
But i also believe that the loss of his arm is a contribution to what has happened around him.
The loss of an arm probably has some kind of an impact on a persons psyche.
And probably not in a "good" way.

Dont take what Mr Horn says as the truth about the pictures, that they all are "genuine".
Look for yourself and you will see that there are things that just doesn't feel "right" about the pictures.

Originally posted by zorgon
And why is this particular one such a sore spot with people here anyway?

I'll tell ya why.

Because for the past 3 years now David Biedny, Derek, and myself among others are consistently maligned and slandered, for pointing out what this "case" truly is.

I wear those barbs as a badge of honor - because most intelligent people know the score with Meier's trash. But some do not, and continue to propagate falsehoods about everyone who takes a stand on this case.

So, when inaccurate statements are made, I'm going to correct them.

It shouldn't be this way. I've exposed a hell of a lot of fake garbage in the past 20+ years. Rarely do I hear guff from any of them.

This one is different. Because it's the bottom of the barrel, and cannot stand on it's own legs, it's proponents need to prop it up with lies and controversy.

It's all the case has. It's venom, and stupid excuses. There's no UFO case there.

Ultimately I don't engage it or its promoter any longer, because to do so is to further public attention to it. I ignore him and his nonsense.

However I feel personally obligated to clarify my own work and position on it when it's spoken of inaccurately.

So, thats why.

reply to post by jritzmann


Certainly no one can say you're wrong for defending your position on the Meier case, however, when one browses through the many Meier threads at ATS, it is clear you are giving this case enough attention to keep it vital for years.

I'm probably on your ignore list by now, so if you don't want to respond I won't feel offended. Trust me.

P.S. If you need a new 'Eddie' avatar, hit me up. I'm not quite sure what yours is expressing, but I have all sorts of cool graphics for you to chose from.

[edit on 24-9-2008 by NightVision]

Originally posted by zorgon
There have been a lot of hoaxers pass this way, but this story won't go away... yet the experts once again into the fray to keep it alive rather than use the "Its been discussed HERE... and leave it at that.

Hello Zorgon.

This is exactly what I hope the IIG report on the Meier case will become. Yes, all of the information describing what the craft were made of, how the prophecies did not come true, how people have been misquoted, etc. can be found online, and a lot of it here on ATS, but there is not one place that contains all of the information for everyone to reference. This is what www.iigwest.org... will hopefully be once everything is online.

Currently, only about 50-60% of my research is online. Next week the Wedding Cake UFO Deconstruction should be ready to go online. This will answer most people's questions regarding the size and composition of the Wedding Cake UFO (FYI, it appears to be between 9" and 19" wide). This information will then dovetail nicely into a discussion about the "wandering tree" used in various Meier photographs and films. Because we will know the approximate width of the Wedding Cake UFO we will be able to do a simple ratio calculation that will provide the approximate height of the tree used in the photographs.

The IIG's Mission Statement is "to investigate fringe science, paranormal and extraordinary claims from a rational, scientific viewpoint, and disseminate factual information about such inquiries to the public." This is why I am still involved in the case as much as I am. Once the report is finally completed and published online (which should hopefully be by the end of 2008 or early 2009) then my involvement with the case will be greatly reduced. From that point on I, and everyone else, will be able to point to the report whenever someone new comes around asking about the Billy Meier Case.

-Derek

reply to post by NightVision


Clearly you want it both ways: it's ok to defend my position, but not ok to respond. Things don't work like that. As long as people continue to misquote and marginalize the work done to show the case's true colors, I'll have to refer people to IIG or respond. Thats the way it is.

I don't need to further engage the case on new issues (of which there are many), so I ignore it. Like I said, might as well shoot fish in a barrel.

Originally posted by jritzmann
reply to post by NightVision

 

Clearly you want it both ways: it's ok to defend my position, but not ok to respond. Things don't work like that. As long as people continue to misquote and marginalize the work done to show the case's true colors, I'll have to refer people to IIG or respond. Thats the way it is.

Uh....actually no, Jeff, I believe its you who want it both ways. You don't want to give this case anymore attention ,yet you continue to respond and revive countless Meier threads that should've been left for dead a long time ago, often because of one or two people here and there who have a problem withyour findings.

Me? I just sit a watch you guys fight over what ultimately amounts to proving O.J. is guilty. Is it really even relevant anymore? I mean...really.



[edit on 24-9-2008 by NightVision]

Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by TerraX

 

Taking shots close to the ground is a possible indication of fakery.

but just because you think that does not make them fakes, sorry

i believe that the tree's in those two pictures you posted are actually over the ridge of the slope making it appear as if the trunk of the tree is close to the ground when in fact it's probably not.

if the tree was on the backslope of that ridge...yes it would make it look like the grass blades are very close to the bottom of the tree.




sorry, your going to have to do better than that

Just because you believe does not make it true also

None of them are fake and Billy Meier is the real deal, so deal with it people! You have to remember that these pictures were taken in the 70-80's with a camera and video cameras that are not as good as the ones we have today. No one has ever proven anything Meier has published as fake.

Originally posted by zorgon

Okay so where are the dreaded ATS "HOAX" tags on the Billy Meier threads to let everyone know it has been declared a HOAX?

Every thread that seeks to present this bollocks as anything close to "real" has the Dreaded ATS [HOAX] tag applied to it. This thread can't be labeled a hoax because the OP simply asks a question.

As to why the people who have done excellent work debunking this garbage would speak up when they are misquoted or misrepresented... Well that's so obvious it doesn't need an answer.

Really Zorgon, a person who seemingly is fairly new to the issue started a thread about the HOAX that is the Meier case, asking if people think ALL the images are fakes. How you connect that to Jeff or Internos "keeping the hoax alive" is beyond me.

This load of toss comes down to people who don't understand what they are seeing refusing to believe people who DO understand what they are seeing. Additionally, the "believers" seem incapable of grasping the fact that the "experts" quoted as supporting this mess have denied any such thing and have openly stated that they have been misquoted and or misrepresented, how much more does one need to understand what this story really is?

I guess it all comes down to a real need to believe, for whatever reason. Maybe people have an empty spot inside them or in their lives and they get some sort of comfort from things like this?

I honestly can't imagine how, in the face of the facts, anyone still buys this bull roar, but, that is part of what makes humanity so darn interesting to me.

In any case, I am done here, have been done with this "case" for years, I just wanted to make sure you knew that all of the threads on this site (unless I missed one) that attempt to present any of the "stuff" from this story as real have been properly labeled.

Springer...

You asked what we thought was going on in this pic. Well here's what I think is going on, a small model and a bit of fishing line.

Adds a whole new meaning to the pic when you add the string

Originally posted by theyareoutthere
No one has ever proven anything Meier has published as fake.

Except that yes they have. You left that part out.

I guess you didn't get the memo - it was never real to begin with. There is a nail lying on the hull of the wedding cake UFO and the sad thing is some of you are so blind to the cup and string act that is the god-awful wedding cake model, people like me have to point that nail out. It's not enough to just look at the "craft" and dismiss it on its face as a Sid & Marty Krofft concoction.

Sadder still, some of you will defend the nail sitting on the hull.

In fact, I think Billy Meier should introduce us to a sock puppet and tell us it's a Plejaren babe. I would love to see how many of you would actually defend an actual sock puppet sitting on his one good hand.

reply to post by NightVision


Uh, wrong yet again. I've not "revived" *any* Meier thread whatsoever, and I'd be all to content to see them on page 800 rather then 1. I respond when my work is misrepresented or asked about, and of course when people attack me for defending work done years ago....oh and don't forget those who think you're supposed to let inaccuracies about your work just....go on unanswered, till people believe it.

Thats the way it works. You respond. And you'd be no different if you spent time actually working a case then pontificating on who should be able to argue about what and where. You don't care because you have nothing invested. I do.

I quote you from another thread that was otherwise peaceful until you entered, after Derek posted his info:

"IMO the crusade being waged on both sides here is adolescent, immature, and offensive to those of us who want to look at the info. without bias. Please just Do us all a favor and leave ATS."

Yeah. Thats all about you pal. You entered that one with an attitude...tell ya what, do yourself a favor and dont read Meier threads. Because as long as my work and those of others is marginalized or misquoted....we'll all be right there.

This is why some cases never get put to bed. No one ever botheres to follow them up, and they keep coming back like a bad penny.

No progress, because we're fighting the garbage from years past that keeps cropping up.

So my best advice to you is: don't read it. I'm seriously not trying to be a jerk here bud, you're just not getting the point. I doubt this one will get thru either. If you continue to level posts such as your last at me, you're going to keep getting the same answer.

reply to post by jritzmann


...Like I said. Even if you prove once and for all the OJ is guilty, there's still going to be some people out there who think he is innocent. But if you want to take them on, be my guest. I don't mean to downplay the relevance of your research, but man, this case that is way too old to get upset over. Seeing your team go at it against Meier's team was once amusing....but I'm afraid there's no punchline anymore. It's really getting kinda weird now....and creepy.



[edit on 24-9-2008 by NightVision]

Originally posted by Springer
I honestly can't imagine how, in the face of the facts, anyone still buys this bull roar, but, that is part of what makes humanity so darn interesting to me.

Well I would agree on that point... it is certainly interesting to watch. I never looked in to the thread that resulted in John's demise. I just find it interesting to see the same faces in the same battle...

Okay yeah I confess... tossing a little fuel into the fire to see it burn... been a little 'moody' lately...

But thanks for clearing up the [hoax] tag issue... wasn't quite sure of the exact mechanism...

Now personally my issue with these 'saucers' is that they are too sharp and clear... real ones need to be 'fuzzy' unless they are parked on the round

But hey what do I know?

Originally posted by internos
Once i was camping with three people, all part of Billy's CULT. What you would find surprising is that if you try to show them some evidence proving that there may be some hoax they simply would close their eyes.

Well sure... but then that is human nature. Happens in religions, happens with skeptics and believers here at ATS... some would even kill to defend their beliefs... just look at how heated simple disagreements get in some threads?

So why are we doing it? Why are we trying to show the 'truth' as we see it?

Hmmm ...I don't have an answer for that one... but we keep coming back

Come on, Ron, the guy has serious problems of credibility

To be sure... but then so do 98.3 % of all other "UFO' stories. The difference with this one it has so many angles and a lot of effort to produce evidence... so it won't go away. So we are destined to repeat history over and over every time someone finds it again...

I posted an 'object' on Eros in about 4 threads... not a lot of reaction... then Mike puts it in a thread and POW its a mega thread...


We are doomed I say... an endless cycle...

But we keep coming back...


[[[checking to see if there is any subliminal programming in ATS transmissions,,,]]]

Originally posted by derekcbart
Currently, only about 50-60% of my research is online. Next week the Wedding Cake UFO Deconstruction should be ready to go online. This will answer most people's questions regarding the size and composition of the Wedding Cake UFO (FYI, it appears to be between 9" and 19" wide). This information will then dovetail nicely into a discussion about the "wandering tree" used in various Meier photographs and films. Because we will know the approximate width of the Wedding Cake UFO we will be able to do a simple ratio calculation that will provide the approximate height of the tree used in the photographs.

Derek, for the accurate width of the model it would be wise to check out this site;
www.harcostar.co.uk...
"Harcostar Plastic Drums was established in 1964 in Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire. Harcostar introduced their first Universal plastic drums machines in 1975 and their first L-Ring drum line in 1979."
That's before the WC UFO photographs allegedly were taken. Besides, there's a photograph of those drums taken on Meier's farm.

Originally posted by theyareoutthere
None of them are fake and Billy Meier is the real deal, so deal with it people! You have to remember that these pictures were taken in the 70-80's with a camera and video cameras that are not as good as the ones we have today. No one has ever proven anything Meier has published as fake.

Geesh. Read up on the case. Even Meier said some of his photographs were fakes. Of course he blames others for that.