G Force calculations prove official Pentagon attack flight path impossible

Originally posted by weedwhacker


Any more questions????

It wasnt a question Weedwhacker.

Still waiting on your email for the "cockpit flyoff".

In the meantime, do you have anything to contribute to the first post? Looked over the FDR data yet?


A bit of a hint Weedwhacker.. .and nothing personal.. .but you remind us of the hasbeen tryin to hold on to what he once had (perhaps not even a weekend warrior anymore). And i respect that. I can imagine what it wil lbe like for me when i miss it... But, its exposing the fact you cannot address the topic in the origina post.

Weedwhacker... just face it, younger and sharper pilots have taken your place. Its over. I'll take you up anytime if you need it though..

reply to post by johndoex

Your post confirms the accuracy issue for DME. Thank you very much.

You posted AIM, it support a 0.23 NM accuracy. The close in errors do not evaporate, the 3 percent or greater accuracy stands, please explain how you eliminate the errors because you are at 1.5 DME. The less than 1/2 mile stands for 1.5 DME, and the 0.23 accuracy meets that criteria.
You can't erase residual errors at close range or the 3 percent of the distance rule would be the only accuracy issue. That is the limitation of the system. That is why the FAA regulations only require DME stored in the FDR to a resolution of 1 NM, it is not a precision instrument. This is why the INS is not updated to finer accuracy in the system used on Flight 77. This is why airways have 4 NM either side; accuracy.

The real DME, the actual distance to the VOR when the data stops could be 1.84 DME and be stored as 1.5 DME in the FDR. People need to understand this accuracy and resolution issue.

What is your position on the resolution of storage being 0.25 NM? That also makes it impossible to use 1.5 DME as the distance. Sorry, I set you up by insisting you look at 1.5 DME and 61.2 true track. You should have checked the storage resolution, 0.25 NM, and the accuracy of in a flying DME system instead of posting 0.1 NM accuracy for test sets and ground transmitters.

It thought this would help you understand 9/11 better, but you are not discussing it, you are making light of facts, facts you ignore to imply 77 did not hit the Pentagon.

Use what you want for your videos to imply 77 did not hit the Pentagon; it is self critiquing. The DNA alone makes your implications false.

Explain why you say the INS crashed, when it did not? Explain why your 34 G graph presentation failed to show perpendicular lines to the flight paths as it has to using circular motion to estimate the G force. Why can you use many different arbitrary radii to come up with completely different G forces with the circular motion method you used in the video?


Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 9/22/2008 by Hal9000]

reply to post by johndoex


As is his usual tactic it's what the poster DOES NOT say or type that is key to the deception. Note that the AIM says EXACTLY what Beachnut indicated it says in the way of numbers. This poster then BOLDS a SUBJECTIVE statements in an attempt to mislead.

Note that ILS/DME approaches are also in BOLD. What he does not tell you is that the DME portion of ILS/DME approaches is not the only aid used in the final segment of the approach. That's why there are marker beacons on ILS Approaches. There are usually three Marker Beacons which are a precise aural and visual signal to enhance the precision of these approaches. If those Marker Beacons are not operational in either the aircraft or on the ground the altitude limits are usually higher for the approach.

It pays to be very wary of what is posted as there is an agenda to be fulfilled and some posters will stoop to any level necessary in order to mislead the reader whether it's the whole truth or not......

[edit on 21-9-2008 by Reheat]

[edit on 21-9-2008 by Reheat]

Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 9/22/2008 by Hal9000]

You "pilots" need to familiarize yourself with TERPS. The errors suggested by Beachnut, in close proximity to the facility on any approach (precision or non-precision, as DME is required on many precision step downs) would have aircraft digging themselves into mountains on DME Arcs, Step Downs and Crossing Restrictions.


Beachnut, a bit of a hint, since it appears you havent flown since before color photogaphy was invented (according to your avatar). DME are extremely accurate, especially within 1.5NM of the facility. Especially so on a Cat III Certified aircraft and crew, such as N644AA.

The reason the AIM still includes such a caveat, is for DME out to 199 NM. I would epect .23 error at that distance, sans slant range.

Bottom line folks. The NTSB does not claim any missing seconds. "Beachnut" and "Reheat" claim the NTSB is wrong. They both refuse to contact the NTSB regarding such claims.

Have a great night.

Originally posted by johndoex
Reheat,

Why have you refused to go to Arlington and film witnesses on location as did CIT?


Do you prefer to attack them anonymously from behind your screen?

You have no many strawmen arguments that you need to start harvesting straw to have enough.

I have no need to go to Arlington and interview witnesses. That's already been done as part of the investigation. I pay attention to the THOUSANDS of people involved, what they have said and written and the judgment necessary to know who is lying and who is not. I also know what is significant and what is not.

I do not need additional witnesses nor do I need to concentrate SOLELY on the FDR as the only piece of evidence to know that AA77 crashed into the West wall of the building and many people died. May their souls rest in peace.

Originally posted by Reheat
There are usually three Marker Beacons which are a precise aural and visual signal to enhance the precision of these approaches.

Inner Markers havent been used in a VERY long time Thanks for dating yourself (although we already knew that)...

lol

Originally posted by johndoex
You "pilots" need to familiarize yourself with TERPS.

I have forgotten more about TERPS than you will know for the rest of your life smart guy. In fact, I've taught it to people who construct approaches and departures.

Originally posted by johndoex
The errors suggested by Beachnut, in close proximity to the facility on any approach (precision or non-precision, as DME is required on many precision step downs) would have aircraft digging themselves into mountains on DME Arcs, Step Downs and Crossing Restrictions.

Hehehehe! And you try to convince readers here that you know something about TERPS criteria? What a joke that is!

Originally posted by johndoex
Bottom line folks. The NTSB does not claim any missing seconds. "Beachnut" and "Reheat" claim the NTSB is wrong. They both refuse to contact the NTSB regarding such claims.

It's only important to you and your agenda. The NTSB will continue to manage and conduct World Class investigations of aircraft accidents and make efforts to prevent them in spite of your attempts to SMEAR the organization, Thank-You.

[edit on 21-9-2008 by Reheat]

Let me see if missed something here. What this particular thread is about? I still can't figure it out. Is it about AA77 not flying into Pentagon or just false data provided by NTSB? Because some CTs refer to a pattern of wreckage that is consistent with their flight path, but not consistent with NTSB. So on one hand they confirm that AA77 hit the Pentagon and on the other hand they say it's impossible.

Originally posted by syeager9
Let me see if missed something here. What this particular thread is about? I still can't figure it out. Is it about AA77 not flying into Pentagon or just false data provided by NTSB? Because some CTs refer to a pattern of wreckage that is consistent with their flight path, but not consistent with NTSB. So on one hand they confirm that AA77 hit the Pentagon and on the other hand they say it's impossible.

Add to that........ using an FDR found in the location they say the aircraft wasn't!

Originally posted by johndoex
You "pilots" need to familiarize yourself with TERPS. The errors suggested by Beachnut, in close proximity to the facility on any approach (precision or non-precision, as DME is required on many precision step downs) would have aircraft digging themselves into mountains on DME Arcs, Step Downs and Crossing Restrictions.


Beachnut, a bit of a hint, since it appears you havent flown since before color photogaphy was invented (according to your avatar). DME are extremely accurate, especially within 1.5NM of the facility. Especially so on a Cat III Certified aircraft and crew, such as N644AA.

The reason the AIM still includes such a caveat, is for DME out to 199 NM. I would epect .23 error at that distance, sans slant range.

Bottom line folks. The NTSB does not claim any missing seconds. "Beachnut" and "Reheat" claim the NTSB is wrong. They both refuse to contact the NTSB regarding such claims.

Have a great night.

I designed approaches for the Air Force, we used in desert storm, I went to TERPS school, I worked current ops shop for years getting world wide dip clearances; being familiar with TERPS is a good thing to check and find errors in approaches to protect your crews.

If you understood DME, I have spoken the truth, the high accuracy is DME compared to celestial navigation we used before we had INS, so DME is high accuracy compared to 30 miles. But the 0.23 NM accuracy is confirmed by AIM. You posted the specs; everyone can see them.

TERPS takes into consideration a larger safety factor for DME/VOR operations, I went to school, I have designed real approaches used in war time operations. Make my day.

Resolution of storage in 77 FDR, 0.25 NM, accuracy of DME, even at 1.5 DME for 77, 0.23 NM. Go ahead tell use where 77 is. And the uncertainty of that position.

At 199 DME the accuracy is 6 NM or better, read the aim you posted. Whichever is greater comes to mind. Not 0.23, that is a close in accuracy. AIM

[edit on 21-9-2008 by beachnut]

Originally posted by Reheat
I have forgotten more about TERPS than you will know for the rest of your life smart guy. In fact, I've taught it to people who construct approaches and departures.

Thats kinda like the claims you made that "P4T never addressed DME", or "The pins arent from the FDR" made on page one of this thread, or that "INS errors are 2000-4000'" yet your buddy Beachnut claims "1500-3000"?

In other words, you can say it, but it doesnt make it true.

In other words again, you have been proven to be a liar.

Hehehehe! And you try to convince readers here that you know something about TERPS criteria? What a joke that is!

The joke is that you thought the pin locations on the front page of this thread didnt pertain to FDR data, and then you tried to sin it up... Now that was funny!

So, what exactly is your experience in TERPS? Care to debate any of the pilots we have here who actually have flown "Flight Check"?? I dont expect you'll put your name on it though.. just make empty claims as you're used to.

It's only important to you and your agenda. The NTSB will continue to manage and conduct World Class investigations of aircraft accidents and make efforts to prevent them in spite of your attempts to SMEAR the organization, Thank-You.

We put our names on our claims and contact the NTSB. You claim the NTSB is wrong on plot, location, time of impact, the list goes on.. .all from behind your screen.

We dont "Smear" the NTSB. We want answers. You make excuses... .anonymously... .and it appears, extremely outdated.

Ugh... i'll rip myself from this pc soon. Still waiting on one friend to get back from his trip...

Originally posted by beachnut
I designed approaches for the Air Force, we used in desert storm, I went to TERPS school, I worked current ops shop for years getting world wide dip clearances; being familiar with TERPS is a good thing to check and find errors in approaches to protect your crews.

Civilian is very different than military. You'd know that if you actually called L3. But then again, you refuse. Just like you refuse to debate P4T.

Originally posted by Reheat
Add to that........ using an FDR found in the location they say the aircraft wasn't!

It's to easy easy. They'll just say fdr data are fabricated. There is no way out It's why it's called Conspiracy Theory.

Originally posted by syeager9

Originally posted by Reheat
Add to that........ using an FDR found in the location they say the aircraft wasn't!

It's to easy easy. They'll just say fdr data are fabricated. There is no way out

It's why it's called Conspiracy Theory.

I posted the links to this before, but they were deleted.

Go to our main site (not forum) Latest News Section and scroll down to...

Can The Govt Get Their Story Straight?
Location of FDR Part I

Lies, Conflicting Reports, Cover-Up's
Location of American 77 Flight Data Recorder - Part II

Originally posted by johndoex

Originally posted by Reheat
There are usually three Marker Beacons which are a precise aural and visual signal to enhance the precision of these approaches.

Inner Markers havent been used in a VERY long time Thanks for dating yourself (although we already knew that)...

lol

Bwhahahahahah!!!

Yes, we all know your varied and WORLD WIDE experience allows you to be the "sharp" pilot that you think you are.

wikimapia.org...
www.hoppie.nl...
www.airport-data.com...

Here's some reading material...it might help you....
www.farmboyzimsflightsims.com...
x-plane.org...

[edit on 21-9-2008 by Reheat]

Originally posted by johndoex
I posted the links to this before, but they were deleted.
Go to our main site (not forum) Latest News Section and scroll down to...
Can The Govt Get Their Story Straight?
Location of FDR Part I
Lies, Conflicting Reports, Cover-Up's
Location of American 77 Flight Data Recorder - Part II

Someone else posted the links I asked last night and nobody deleted them. I really can't figure out what the mods have against you personally and why? Do they? Or it's another CT? Anyways, I I'm looking through your Pirats4lies, or whatever it's called. I certainly won't comment on them here for understandable reasons. However I will use them in our future discussions.

Originally posted by Reheat


Yes, we all know your varied and WORLD WIDE experience allows you to be the "sharp" pilot that you think you are.

wikimapia.org...

Im looking at jetBlue JEPP plate for SFO ILS 28R dated 14DEC07. Now try to find us an approach where the IM is required.

The IM hasnt been used in a VERY long time for precision approach (read: required), it doesnt mean they are all decomissioned. But thanks for once again proving your intellectual dishonesty.


ETA: The rest of your post we arent able to address as we are laughing too hard.

[edit on 21-9-2008 by johndoex]

I remember reading a convincing argument on this forum not too long ago on how a plane did hit the pentagon.

Link: www.abovetopsecret.com...