The camo Guys

Hello all, Im new so bear with me for a couple of days, Im pretty interested in this topic and the fate of those two seniors as well. Ive cruised you tube Ive made my mind up about this and this is only my opinion and Ive never dealt with the camo dudes since im over here in new jersey but Id like to say that that Pavehawk helo intimidates me more than those camo guys, the camo guys are contract security(Wackenhut I believe), Now Im not sure but I would rather deal with them than anybody else, especially the Air Force security forces and whatever OGA's(other goverment agencies) are working there. Has anybody ever had a run in with these contract security guys? and as for those seniors blowing through that CP, Thats high speed..lol..crazy and stupid but high speed.

Youve got it the other way around friend. You would much rather deal with a goverment Agency then the Private sector, they basicly go by thier own rules. And will shoot/beat the crap out of for no reason and ask questions later.

Id love to check it out for myself but Im too far to just come out to visit but would love to. We have contract security here on a few military bases in Jersey and they are a joke, some guys are squared away but most are clueless so thats really all I have to go on about contact security but thanks for the heads up incase I get the hankerin for coming to visit.....

Thing is about area51, is it is a shoot on site area. so NEVER go past the boundries, they are marked on the road, when it says stop it means stop.

They WILL spot you instantly, and if you are seen as a threat(a gun hanging out of your pants/conspicous looking gear) they will shoot. If you seem like a dumb sightsee'r they will race over, jump on you(possible ninja kicks),cuff you, and beat you/arrest you.

But if you stay behind the boundry, they may still ask you to leave, and will be watching you constantly. Take a GPS and get the boundry online so you dont accidently cross while climbing rocks.

Do the "camo guys" wear any patches or insignia?

I recall reading somewhere that the USAF Security Police has some sort of ultra elite special forces type unit that they can use to secure high risk installations and guard nuclear weapons, etc? For the life of me I cant think of the name but they do exist. Its called something Phoenix or Phoenix something.

Is it possible that these are the same guys?

Originally posted by ChrisF231
Do the "camo guys" wear any patches or insignia?

I recall reading somewhere that the USAF Security Police has some sort of ultra elite special forces type unit that they can use to secure high risk installations and guard nuclear weapons, etc? For the life of me I cant think of the name but they do exist. Its called something Phoenix or Phoenix something.

Is it possible that these are the same guys?

Would that be these guys ?

Phoenix Raven is a United States military counter-terrorism organization program instituted in 1997 by Gen. Mills.

The Phoenix Raven program, implemented by Air Mobility Command Commander Gen. Walter Kross in early 1997, consists of groups of specially trained security forces personnel dedicated to providing force protection for aircrews and resources that operate in areas with a high threat level from criminals and terrorists. The Ravens are a select group of security forces volunteers "who have reached and maintained high standards during their military careers and aim to provide top-notch security for AMC personnel and en route aircraft around the world." Ravens advise the aircraft crew on force protection measures, perform close-in aircraft security and airfield assessments highlighting security measures and weaknesses, and assist with aircrew duties. Security forces members who opt to become a Raven undergo a two-week course at the Air Mobility Warfare Center, Fort Dix. They study topics such as international law, and they learn hand-to-hand defense techniques. Ravens have deployed worldwide and remain a vital component in the overall Force Protection of U.S. resources and national security. Air Mobility Command's Phoenix Raven program, implemented in 1997, consists of teams of specially trained security forces personnel dedicated to providing security for AMC aircraft that transit high terrorist and criminal threat areas.

Found on Wiki en.wikipedia.org...

I used to have a friend whos brother was a USAF Special Forces guy, among other things he said they were trained to sneak into places where they shouldnt be then laser designate specific targets for air strikes and if needed their team could unleash about the same amount of firepower as a standard SEAL team.

Pretty impressive stuff for the USAF

[edit on 17-9-2008 by Candycab]

[edit on 17-9-2008 by Candycab]

reply to post by ChrisF231


Scoll down to cammo at back gate. Cant tell about I.D. on uniform
community.webshots.com...

This is some real interesting stuff, I know now that I would love to go out there and see for myself, I guess I figured that most contract security were a bunch of delta bravos since the base I lived on had them and they were clueless, I appreciate the insight. I guess I am like everybody else and just wants to know whats truly out there and now If I can persuade my buddies to go with me its on, Hey did you guys read a post about somebody saying the security actually infiltarted a campsite and took a camera and wrecked the guys campsite? hmm

Candycab, Yes! Phoenix Raven is what I was thinking of. Pretty impressive bunch.

Hank, looks like a private contracted security guard to me. I cant make out any badges, shoulder patches or rank insignia (USAF wears big subdued chevrons for enlisted ranks on upper sleeves of the BDU uniform).

Thanks for all the good info guys..Any word on those senior citizens who plowed on though that CP?

reply to post by ChrisF231


That is a pic of a cammo at the back gate. The front gate and backgate security are not military they are private contractors. Cedar gate is military.

reply to post by monkeybus


Where do I start. Shoot on sight? First of all, the use of deadly force has been removed from the warning signs. Second, plenty of idiots have crossed the line and not been shot. I can't say if any of those idiots have been armed.

A GPS will do you little good at the border. There is no definitive set of waypoints of the border, let alone a map. Even if such data existed, you can easily be off 10ft with a GPS. When at the border, you need to look for the orange poles and the silver balls.

reply to post by hank


Are you sure about Cedar gate being military? They used to use ASI security.

reply to post by monkeybus


I concur. Having worked in private security I can tell you that there is one BIG difference between me, and let's say your average cop. I don't need any probable cause! The only downfall there is that I am also vulnerable to being sued, where as most of the time public officers are extended civil protections.

There are shades of gray there too though. For one, I was contracted to the state at one point. Then there is the powerhouse legal teams of the big security companies like Wackenhut and Securitas. If it is in their interest, they will throw that substantial weight behind the defense of a guard, so that they are not sued as well. In other words, if a guard is found to be liable, then the company can be sued too, and usually they won't let that happen.

The cammo 'dudes' ,as the yare properly known as to us common folk, are NOt some ELITE special force. They are a bunch of old guys in trucks working from a private security firm. If you took their guns away, they probably wouldnt be as intimidating. And as gariac said, the use of deadly force authorized was taken off the border sign.

I personally have only heard them shoot one time, at a red jeep blazing past the border at about 50mph. Dont know if they shot at the jeep or just fired off a warning shot but the point is, they arent going to snipe you for tippy-toeing past the border. They will detain you until Lincoln County sheriff gets there, then he will either arrest you or slap you wit ha nice 1,000 dollar ticket, or both depending on the situation.

I found this interesting video of camo dudes on a hill watching the horizon. They seem very boring... es.youtube.com...

Also I found these samples of uniform, cammo dudes possibly use. www.camoshop.com.au...

[edit on 18-9-2008 by reynoldt]

I recall from the "final 4 landing" at the Tonopah Test Range, we were "greeted" by USAF and DOE security. I think the TTR and the gate at Cedar Pipeline ranch are guarded by all of the above, i.e. throw in ASI or private security too.

I also recall that when I was parked on the hill above the old ranch house, I was visited by a dude with US government security plates.
dude

If that link doesn't work, referring page is
cedar

reply to post by gariac


OT, but if you look at that page for the Cedar Pass, all those signs leading to the drop zones have been removed. The drop zones are still there, but the signs have been replaced with tricky little markings like rocks painted red.

TTR Security guards are also contractors or DOE and Lockheed Martin employees?

Because I have seen in a photo that you have shown [gariac] of a guy with a Lockheed van. This guy is a security guard? www.lazygranch.com...


[edit on 19-9-2008 by reynoldt]

reply to post by reynoldt


That gate leads to the Smokey SAM site. My guess is Lockheed is a contractor to run the site, or that they maintain some equipment at the site.

Their road to the site is nice. Our road to the the free territory near the site is a mess. We went out there one day and gathered at least 10 of the part of the Smokey SAM that remains after a launch.

smokey SAM
More Smokey SAM photos here:
misc

Smokey SAM trail