Pakistan troop fire turns back U.S. helicopters

Shooting at and hitting are different stories .. I'm sure the Pakistani troops know what 'raptorian hellfire' will come down on them if they hit one of our assets.

I wonder(not withstanding the "911 truthers")if radical islamists attacked somebody else on 911 would people on this board would be so sympathetic to Pakistan?While I respect their territorial rights,they are talking to the U.S. out of both sides of their mouths. If you watch the news you know where the terrorists are.When I watched the coverage on 9-11-08 I was just as angry as in 2001.I will never forget where I was on that day,nor will I forgive that attack on people that had nothing to do with the gripes they have with the U.S.They make it a point to attack civillians.While not perfect the U.S. sometimes spends millions on bombs that are as acurate as can be.Sometimes the intel that guides them is wrong,the intent is there,mistakes happen.Some would say "the U.S. created them".That's the same (to me)as the chicken or the egg.They exist,the question is "what to do with them"?The world as of now,is a posturing not ideal world where whoever has the biggest stick wins.Not just the U.S. but all devolping or devoleped countries.That's the world we need to deal with.In their eyes we have no right to exist.We need to destroy them or be destroyed by them. Not good options ,but the only two i see at this time.A good book for some insight is "Inside The Jihad",by Omar Nasiri,gives some idea of the mindset.

I heard of that Raptorian Hellfire. It has the effect of stopping supply lines across pakistan to afghanistan dead in their tracks i'm told.

Ok history lesson time the Taliban are in Waziristan in 2006 they signed a deal with the Pakistani government, this deal was broken. Islamic militants are using a recent peace deal with the government to consolidate their hold in northern Pakistan, vastly expanding their training of suicide bombers and other recruits and fortifying alliances with al-Qaeda and foreign fighters, the newspaper said, quoting diplomats and intelligence officials from several nations. The result, they say, is virtually a Taliban mini-state.

Now this creates a huge problem for Pakistan It shows they have no control of this area of there country. this area is controlled by 2 men Mullah Nazir and a Taliban commander known as Mullah Omar (but not the Mullah Omar). The two have been at odds since Mullah Nazir replaced Mullah Omar as head of the Ahmadzai tribe--both because of Mullah Nazir's usurpation and also preexisting clan rivalries. Now these 2 men don't care if there considered part of Pakistan or not they just don't want the government there.
Do to pressure from United States to stop cross border raids the Pakistan government sent there military and it did not go well.

Pakistani Army launches offensive in South Waziristan

The main ruling Pakistan People's Party is generally considered in line with U.S. goals in the war on terror, but it has to tread carefully because of deep anti-American sentiment in the country. Many Pakistanis blame their country's partnership with the U.S. in the war on terror for fueling rising militancy in their country. People in this area are afraid the Taliban will completely take over and has been thumbing there nose at the government thru terrorist acts, Now here's the kicker if they support US civil war. If they allow Taliban to keep getting stronger same result.

Well in good old USA its an election year and bush wants results and now. Pakistan wants to wait until they can truly take and hold the area. So what your seeing is Pakistan trying to slow down the US and the US not willing to play anymore.

reply to post by 0 x 0


utter rubbish - this was a warning pure and simple - stop murdering our citizens or you`ll get stinger missiles in your ass next time

London warned of terror attacks after Pakistan raids

Richard Edwards, London
September 16, 2008

THE unprecedented raids by the US inside Pakistan could provoke terrorist attacks in London, Pakistan's high commissioner to Britain has warned.

Wajid Shamsul Hasan said the attacks on Taliban and al-Qaeda suspects were making the streets of Britain less safe and that resentment was mounting among Pakistanis in the country, with community leaders calling for that anger to be "organised".

His remarks followed outrage in Pakistan over five attacks in the past 10 days, including a ground assault in the town of Angoor Adda in which 20 people were killed. US officials said all were supporters of terrorism but Pakistan insists they were civilians, including women and children.

Mr Hasan said: "This will infuriate Muslims in this country and make the streets of London less safe. There are one million Pakistanis in the diaspora here and resentment is mounting.

"I'm being flooded by text messages from community leaders saying we must organise our anger. The Americans' trigger-happy actions will radicalise young Muslims. They're playing into the hands of the very militants we're supposed to be fighting."

A new US tactic to mount counter-terrorist operations inside Pakistan has met with hostility within Pakistan as well. This week Pakistani tribesmen, representing half a million people, vowed to join the Taliban if Washington did not stop cross-border attacks by its forces from Afghanistan

TheAge.com

reply to post by Harlequin


There was a warning, but not a Pakistani one. It's the US warning, "if you don't tackle the problem, we will". There is next to nothing Pakistan can do militarily, it's widely percieved that the US even has full knowledge of the where abouts of their nuclear arsenal and indeed the launch codes.

Obama was right when he argued the Iraqi invasion was a diversion from the real war on terror (Afghanistan and Tribal Regions of Pakistan).

reply to post by theblunttruth


they don`t know where they pakistani nuclear weapons are as they move them - and lanuch codes? again no they don`t - and if the USA carries on killing PAK civilians then next time there will be F-16`s in the air to stop the USA>

reply to post by Harlequin



The thing is this doesn't require conflict between the 2 nations. The simple answer is Pakistan tackling these regions effectively. The US doesn't have to act militarily to punish Pakistan, simply stopping the military aid will be enough to send a warning.

reply to post by theblunttruth


you seem to think its perfectly ok for the USA to kill anyone they feel like anywhere they feel like? Hitler tried that one.

Originally posted by Harlequin
reply to post by theblunttruth

 

you seem to think its perfectly ok for the USA to kill anyone they feel like anywhere they feel like? Hitler tried that one.

I think you'll find it's the terrorists who conform to that assertion. Hence the US taking all measures to stop them.

You seem to condemn innocent killing, yet condone the Pakistanis for doing nothing to tackle those responible for it. Do you not see your own hypocrisy?

[edit on 16-9-2008 by theblunttruth]

One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist - many in the world see the USA as the terrorists stamping out the values of other countries culture with force of arms and cowering of the government and population with yet seemingly random bombings and attacks.

what would the USA do if the government of Mexico decided to attack texas under the guise of `chasing terrorists`.

they would attack right back - which is exactly how pakistan is reacting - remember the USA labels certain groups as terrorist , where as the rest of teh world does not;

does that make them anymore right? like hell does it.

reply to post by Harlequin


This is what will quicken the fall of this nation. This 'pre-emptive' war on terror is just an excuse to try and bully nations into conflicts so that the 'wars' can go on. Crossing over the borders of other nations is simply not acceptable. I don't care if there are 'terrorist' training camps or not. We must do it through diplomatic process. If the country refuses to do that then we go to the world.

However, one thing is clear. We MUST stop acting like we are the police of this planet and stop attacking countries that have NOT attacked us.

Originally posted by theblunttruth

Originally posted by Harlequin
reply to post by theblunttruth

 

you seem to think its perfectly ok for the USA to kill anyone they feel like anywhere they feel like? Hitler tried that one.

I think you'll find it's the terrorists who conform to that assertion. Hence the US taking all measures to stop them.

You seem to condemn innocent killing, yet condone the Pakistanis for doing nothing to tackle those responible for it. Do you not see your own hypocrisy?

[edit on 16-9-2008 by theblunttruth]

This is the attitude (brainwashing) that will destroy our nation. You have listened to these MIC cronies for way too long my friend. Innocent killing? Terrorist? What is a terrorist? Many of the people in the Middle East would view a U.S. soldier as a terrorist. You see, it's a matter of perspective.

You feel that we truly are going after these extremists. Yet, many people in the world don't get the same news thus don't see the same groups as terrorists. They see the people that are putting military bases in their country as terrorists. They see the people that put warships in their ports as terrorists.

If you truly want to understand what is going on you need to be willing to look at the entire picture from all angles. So far, from your posts, it is clear that you are blinded by the lies being told to you by the MSM and this administration.

Follow the money and you will be surprised to see who is at the end of this fantasy rainbow.

This story is absolute propaganda full stop. Pakistan does not have the army, nor the finances to engage in a war with the US. So there is no way in hell that they would deliberately risk a US retaliation over such a trivial matter.

No my friends, Pakistan is not that stupid. America would use any excuse to invade yet another "terrorist" country and this would be just the excuse they would need to justify their illegal invasions. Pakistan know this, and would never allow them the opportunity to walk through the front gate.

Originally posted by Harlequin
One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist - many in the world see the USA as the terrorists stamping out the values of other countries culture with force of arms and cowering of the government and population with yet seemingly random bombings and attacks.

what would the USA do if the government of Mexico decided to attack texas under the guise of `chasing terrorists`.

they would attack right back - which is exactly how pakistan is reacting - remember the USA labels certain groups as terrorist , where as the rest of teh world does not;

does that make them anymore right? like hell does it.

Aa ignorance is bliss isn't it?!

Things are more complex than simple analogies my friend Are the US harbouring terrorists that blow themselves up along with innocents in Mexico? I don't think so....

"Freedom Fighter"?, by definition these are anything but. Do freedom fighters blow themselves up in malls and market places? Do freedom fighters vow to export their religious doctrine forcibly outside their borders? Do Freedom Fighters consider anyone not aligned to their islamic jihad, as disposable "infidels"?

It's not as if these terrorists are merely trying to protect their territory as "freedom fighters" would perse, they exploit and ursurpe territory and consider anyone else as dispensible. if you read my posts above i clearly outline the difference between an ideology and a cause.

As for brainwashing goes, your very much mistaken and i have the qualifications to prove that my opinion comes with knowledge rather than baseless, media inspired, leftist naivity!

[edit on 16-9-2008 by theblunttruth]

[edit on 16-9-2008 by theblunttruth]

reply to post by theblunttruth


i think you might be mistaken reference brainwashing - tis another poster and not myself that used those words

for those people in Iraq that are defined in the western media as terrorists , those same people are lauded as freedom fighters using all tools available to them , and yes that also means suicide boming - there are stories of suicide bombers fighting the nazi`s in WW2 so for those who believe that deeply then its a viable option to them.

you say

quote]Are the US harbouring terrorists that blow themselves up along with innocents in Mexico

well you have americans thatthey blow up americans , and who can honestly say that the so called `gang` violence in mexico isn`t US terrorists stoking the flames?

(although i do think its just gang violence but whats a discussion without conspiracy)

Do freedom fighters vow to export their religious doctrine forcibly outside their borders? Do Freedom Fighters consider anyone not aligned to their islamic jihad, as disposable "infidels"?

well lets look at Hezbollah- 95% of the world consider them a legimate freedom fighting group fighting oppression and systematic genocide by israel - funnily enough israel and the USA consider them terrorists....

do white supremist groups vow to convert by force all non christians to believe in the father , the son and the holy spirit? do US troops see all muslims as `the enemy` and wantingly blow up anything that moves? kill a city block because 1 shot was fired?

it works both ways

It's not as if these terrorists are merely trying to protect their territory as "freedom fighters" would perse, they exploit and ursurpe territory and consider anyone else as dispensible. if you read my posts above i clearly outline the difference between an ideology and a cause.

freedom fighters arn`t trying to protect anything - they want the cause of the disruption removed , forever - in the case of christianity vs islam (west vs east) they will use whatever tools they can - and both sides care nothing for who ever gets killed - may i remind you of Fullajah 2004 as a case in point versus any counter point of suicide bombers.

and this is the case in pakistan - if the line isn`t drawn and someone with `the big guns` makes a stand then the USA will carry on with there goal of wanting to rule the world - with an iron fist.

The US supplied weapons to the taleban for use against the USSR ,

The Taliban did not exist then

Originally posted by Harlequin
reply to post by theblunttruth

 

i think you might be mistaken reference brainwashing - tis another poster and not myself that used those words

for those people in Iraq that are defined in the western media as terrorists , those same people are lauded as freedom fighters using all tools available to them , and yes that also means suicide boming - there are stories of suicide bombers fighting the nazi`s in WW2 so for those who believe that deeply then its a viable option to them.

you say

quote]Are the US harbouring terrorists that blow themselves up along with innocents in Mexico

well you have americans thatthey blow up americans , and who can honestly say that the so called `gang` violence in mexico isn`t US terrorists stoking the flames?

(although i do think its just gang violence but whats a discussion without conspiracy)

Do freedom fighters vow to export their religious doctrine forcibly outside their borders? Do Freedom Fighters consider anyone not aligned to their islamic jihad, as disposable "infidels"?

well lets look at Hezbollah- 95% of the world consider them a legimate freedom fighting group fighting oppression and systematic genocide by israel - funnily enough israel and the USA consider them terrorists....

do white supremist groups vow to convert by force all non christians to believe in the father , the son and the holy spirit? do US troops see all muslims as `the enemy` and wantingly blow up anything that moves? kill a city block because 1 shot was fired?

it works both ways

It's not as if these terrorists are merely trying to protect their territory as "freedom fighters" would perse, they exploit and ursurpe territory and consider anyone else as dispensible. if you read my posts above i clearly outline the difference between an ideology and a cause.

freedom fighters arn`t trying to protect anything - they want the cause of the disruption removed , forever - in the case of christianity vs islam (west vs east) they will use whatever tools they can - and both sides care nothing for who ever gets killed - may i remind you of Fullajah 2004 as a case in point versus any counter point of suicide bombers.

and this is the case in pakistan - if the line isn`t drawn and someone with `the big guns` makes a stand then the USA will carry on with there goal of wanting to rule the world - with an iron fist.

Harlequin, first off, apologies, i know you didn't direct the brainwashing accusation, it wasn't aimed at you, but i failed to indicate so in my previous post.

Ok, back to debate...

Regarding Iraq, no such comparison can be made as we are talking about two entirely different situations. That was an invasion and any such resistance, could be construed as Freedom Fighting, granted there, although many of these so called freedom fighters are not IRaqis, but thats another point of debate entirely.... The Taliban however are operating within Pakistans sovereign borders and using it as a platform to launch attacks across the globe, not just the US. This is not freedom fighting, this is terrorism.

reply to post by firepilot


well yes and no - since Taliban means `students` - it was born out of the bloody civil war which followed the exit of the USSR in 1989 - when the main Afghan Mujahideen groups went on a rampage and tried to take `out` the other groups and attempt to control of the entire country .

whats not so well known is the CIA trained the Afghan Mujahideen in the town of Badaber in Pakistan , with the support of not only the USA but also pakistan , china and egypt - and yet here we have the US attacking one of its allies