Why creation?

reply to post by Good Wolf


It's encouraging to know that others share my belief system. To add on to the Church frowning on other beliefs part, I go to a Christian School. A few years ago, we were in a science class. The teacher asked us if any of us were "Old-World Creationists", doing so in an accusuatory voice and making me uncomfterable to raise my hand. I wish the Church would realize that some Christians may have different views about Creation, and that doesn't mean that they are wrong.

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


Ok, I don't really know what any of that meant, but it was certainly interesting.

Originally posted by Zezima
I go to a Christian School.

Really?! At the risk of sounding insensitive and condescending (not meaning to), I really don't envy you. I hope you dont have to endure too much grief. Remember, being christians, whenever you are getting bothered for your beliefs, just play the "tolerance" card and remind them of the philosophies they are supposed to subscribe to.

Evolution is NOT POSSIBLE, there is no evidence of it in fact the evidence points in a young Earth, less than 10,000 years old. The whole thing is a theory that keeps morphing when another proof of Creation appears, now they have gone to punctuated equilibrium which basically states that 2 animals had a baby that was either male or female that was a completely different Kind, and that nearby another set of different animals had another one of the new kinds and was the other sex. The thing is a damn fairytale all you have to do is read to your kids about the Princess that kissed the frog and it turned into a Prince. That is Evolution except in evolution they like to add billions of years for the change from frog to Prince, it doesn't happen in fairy tales and it never happened in real life either.

There is so much good scientific evidence of Creation, or young earth age out there for those that seek to know. Watch the new movie by Ben Stein coming out on DVD this week called EXPELLED, in this documentary he gets the world's top 22 Evolutionists and asks them simple questions, in the end non of them believe in evolution, they all agreed that everything was Designed by a Designer. They won't say Creator, but a designer is a creator is he not? Have you ever looked at a watch and thought that wow over billions of years through "good mutations" and "natural selection" this watch has been made? Of course not, you see anything manufactured and you know that it was designed and made to operate the way it does.

One cell is more complicated than New York City and evolution wants you to believe that a New York City appeared out of water and rocks and electricity and that New York City found something to eat, another New York City to produce offspring with, and it all happened by accident. If I put all the gears and makings of a watch in a room and kept it locked for 1 billion years would I return to find a finished watch??? Time does not equal possibility, in fact mathematically speaking the more time you add the less probable something is to happen in evolutionary theory. There is a great website that covers all of this information, it is basically the web version of a 900 page science book called "The Evolution Handbook" and it is a great resource for anyone seeking the truth. There website is Evolution Facts.org.

And as for the reason you can not have the God of the Bible and evolution is simple, read Darwin's own words in how he described evolutionary theory. He said it was the meanest, cruelest and most evil thing he had ever thought of. God is Love and love doesn't use mutations and survival of the fittest, which is basically the killing off of the weaker kind through mutations, to create everything you see on the planet today and in space and in the Galaxy and in the Universe. Love doesn't use chance and time and death to create, so evolutionary theory is by it's very nature anti-God.

There are a million things I would like to put out here but it is all to complicated for such a forum as this, please use the link above and read the information and look at the evidence and then use your melon to think.

reply to post by Good Wolf


Well, I can't say it's been the experience of a lifetime. To be honest, I'm tired of being subjected to only a Christian view of biology and history. I am planning on majoring in zoology, and therefore must take evolutional biology. I won't be very prepared for this class, since I have never taken anything like it. But it is going to be a huge breath of fresh air, getting able to see both sides of an extremely important issue.

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
fact the evidence points in a young Earth, less than 10,000 years old.

Backup?

The whole thing is a theory that keeps morphing when another proof of Creation appears

What proof of creation?

, now they have gone to punctuated equilibrium which basically states that 2 animals had a baby that was either male or female that was a completely different Kind, and that nearby another set of different animals had another one of the new kinds and was the other sex.

Apart from you, who says this?

The theory of Punctuated Equilibria provides paleontologists with an explanation for the patterns which they find in the fossil record. This pattern includes the characteristically abrupt appearance of new species, the relative stability of morphology in widespread species, the distribution of transitional fossils when those are found, the apparent differences in morphology between ancestral and daughter species, and the pattern of extinction of species.

Talkorigins Now it's pretty silly that you criticise this considering that you creationist HAD TO adopt a mutant form of evolution to explain how all life can be traced back to the ark. Since every "KIND" of animal that there is today and has ever been could not possibly fit onto the ark you guys were looking pretty stupid. I mean you could fit all the species of beetles on the ark, let alone all the root "kinds" of modern life. And how did the plants survive underwater for 40 days and nights? THERE is an impossibility for you.

There is so much good scientific evidence of Creation, or young earth age out there for those that seek to know.

Again, what evidence, where? Never, ever have I seen anything supporting the creation myth in scientific journals.

Watch the new movie by Ben Stein coming out on DVD this week called EXPELLED

Ben Stien? Really? You are going to cling to that piece of trash? Ben Stein has demonstrated a profound lack of scientific understanding. Somehow in his warped mind evolution is supposed to explain gravity. this movie is not a documentary at all, but anti-science propaganda aimed at creating the appearance of controversy where there is none. It got an 8% rating on rottentomatoes (THATS WORSE THAN CAT WOMAN)

Have you ever looked at a watch and thought that wow over billions of years through "good mutations" and "natural selection" this watch has been made? Of course not, you see anything manufactured and you know that it was designed and made to operate the way it does.

Your straw man arguments are FAIL. There is a reason why watches don't evolve, they are not alive and hence, they have no genetic code and they don't reproduce. But what if they did? Could evolution be a blind watch maker?

One cell is more complicated than New York City and evolution wants you to believe that a New York City appeared out of water and rocks and electricity and that New York City found something to eat, another New York City to produce offspring with, and it all happened by accident.

Are you really going to stand there are think that MODERN simple cells were the first form of life?! MODERN cells that have had BILLIONS of years to become what they are today?! Don't be stupid. The first cells would have been stunningly simple, as in a membrane and RNA, and thats all.

If I put all the gears and makings of a watch in a room and kept it locked for 1 billion years would I return to find a finished watch???

Unless of course, if they were mutually attractive chamicals. Millers experiment in the 50's demonstrated that that's exactly how the materials of simple cells behave.

And as for the reason you can not have the God of the Bible and evolution is simple, read Darwin's own words in how he described evolutionary theory. He said it was the meanest, cruelest and most evil thing he had ever thought of.

Where? Show me.

God

On the assumption that God even exists. This IS NOT a foregone conclusion.

is Love and love doesn't use mutations and survival of the fittest, which is basically the killing off of the weaker kind through mutations

It also gives our descendants strength and resistance to sickness you realise. Natural Selection is not the survival of the fittest but rather the survival of the most adaptive.

, to create everything you see on the planet today and in space and in the Galaxy and in the Universe. Love doesn't use chance and time and death to create, so evolutionary theory is by it's very nature anti-God.

OK fine. Hypothetically, evolution doesn't exist. Is there still suffering in the world? Miscarriages? Babies born missing limbs, malformed or otherwise mutated. Id say God has a lot to answer for, but you seem to pretend that it doesn't exist. Life is tough. Life can be very ugly, and if you cant realise that and grow up you should just leave right now.

There are a million things I would like to put out here but it is all to complicated for such a forum as this, please use the link above and read the information and look at the evidence and then use your melon to think.

You REALLY need to take your own advice mate.

[edit on 10/20/2008 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by theindependentjournal




Oh, that's just funny!!! OK, just show me one, just one piece of scientific evidence that proves the Earth is less than 10,000 years old!! Just one! All of the evidence, and I mean all of the evidence proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Earth is BILLIONS of years old! So, please, please, please show me the 'evidence' of a 'young Earth'!!!

Your other wild 'theories' have been quite handily dismissed by GoodWolf, so I'll leave it at that.

reply to post by Good Wolf


Hey, I liked Catwoman, thank you very much!!!

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by Good Wolf

 

Hey, I liked Catwoman, thank you very much!!!

Sorry but it was rubbish. I must admit i liked it but only for saucy Hale in the cat costume.

reply to post by Good Wolf


interesting, i checked that link and found no evidence of evolution. just a bunch of speculation as to what creature came from what. lots of bold claims and no solid evidence at all. If this is all it takes to convince you of evolution then it shows you were just looking for an excuse to disbelieve in God and the Bible. Evolutionists can play on words all tey like but an open minded person can stand back and see there is no evidence that creatures are evolving into other creatures. lots of different types of dogs, pigs, cats or whatever. Nothing that cannot be axplained by adaption and variety within a species.

Originally posted by Horza
reply to post by Geemor

 

Can you explain why Creationists must argue that evolution goes against the idea of a creator?

it does because modern evolutionary theory claims that everything happened by chance. There is no chance in a world governed by the G*d depicted in the bible. There is no aspect of "chance" in relation to other religions and spiritualities as well . . .

[edit on 10/21/2008 by JPhish]

reply to post by JPhish


Don't be stupid. Even a child can understand that if God exits then the realm of chance is one that god governs. To say that chance requires the absence of God is inane. The majority of christians AND "evolutionists" disagree with you.



[edit on 10/21/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by Good Wolf

 

interesting, i checked that link and found no evidence of evolution. just a bunch of speculation as to what creature came from what. lots of bold claims and no solid evidence at all.

It was a page on Macro evolution specifically not the whole of evolution. I don't consider countless studies pure speculation but rather the oposite.

If this is all it takes to convince you of evolution then it shows you were just looking for an excuse to disbelieve in God and the Bible.

I've said this many times. Evolution has nothing against God or christianity which is why most christians have embraced evolution. Read the op for goodness sake. And FYI, I've been a christian and believed in God for most of my life, I have no interest in overturning anyone's belief system but rather trying to introduce something to the religoius folk that they believe or once believed to be a threat. If you believe that evolution is an excuse to disbelieve God you are very mistaken, friend. Science has no bearing on peoples faith but rather to build knowledge of the natural not the super natural.

Evolutionists can play on words all tey like but an open minded person can stand back and see there is no evidence that creatures are evolving into other creatures.

You are advocating open mindedness so I'm stunned by your hypocrisy.

lots of different types of dogs, pigs, cats or whatever. Nothing that cannot be axplained by adaption and variety within a species.

Not true. Things are going extinct every single day. If Noah's flood actually happened all plant life would have died. Without evolution the empty spaces left due to extinction would never be filled and life on earth would have vanished billions of years ago. Evolution is how life persists.

reply to post by Good Wolf


How can someone study macro-evolution? I thought macro evolution took millions of years to take place. if so, then it is indeed just speculation and imagination to come up with those explanations on that site. or do you believe that human scientists are infallible?

you can say evolution has nothing against God all you like but it doesn't change the fact that it does. The Bible says God created living things according to their kinds, therefore no evolution.

i have displayed no Hypocrisy at all. I just don't believe science fiction no matter how inteligent or well qualified the storey teller. if evolution was a fact, it could be demonstrated, and it has not. I have seen no real scientifix evidence that any creature has ever evolved into a different creature. All experiments i have read about have started with a class of creature, e.g. fruit fly, and ended with the same class of creature by their own definition. Surely these scientists could demonstrate evolution better than that.

Yes things are going extinct every day. why did they not evolve to their environment? Why did some species evolve into something different and some don't?

are you sure all plant life would have died in the flood? where is the scientific experimentation to show this? Is it not the case that seeds can remain dorment until such time when conditions are favourable for them to grow?

Originally posted by JPhish

Originally posted by Horza
reply to post by Geemor

 

Can you explain why Creationists must argue that evolution goes against the idea of a creator?

it does because modern evolutionary theory claims that everything happened by chance. There is no chance in a world governed by the G*d depicted in the bible. There is no aspect of "chance" in relation to other religions and spiritualities as well . . .

[edit on 10/21/2008 by JPhish]

Check out The book of Acts in your bible...

Acts Chapter 17 verses 23 to 34....

Note the Word Haply means by Chance....

But this doesn't weaken your argument, but I have just mentioned this, for your own knowledge of the scriptures, I hope you are able to do the same for me some day, when I make a mistake. I look for reproof also...

But I am Not sure I can go along with Quote:-

"There is no aspect of "chance" in relation to other religions and spiritualities as well . . .

[edit on 21-10-2008 by The Matrix Traveller]

reply to post by Good Wolf


You mentioned the Flood and the loss of Plants..... Now that is another subject I want to bring up in the future if I may.

The Flood was Not what humanity thinks it was....

But I will bring out the Truth in the form of Quotes from the bible story about this.

But I will say this now there was never a flood as in the form of water or sea water as one would think today or is taught today by the Roman churches and connected denominations that came out of the Roman church.

But rather it was a totally different phenomena.... LOL...

LOL - our understanding is infinitely vague!

There is an attack against creationism, but for what? because its hard to believe for those logical thinkers and realist. There is no Attack on Atheism, but for what? because its a "safe guard" you can't attack someone who isn't convinced in a deity. You can try and convince them but, science is ultimately whats been working so far so why not trust it?

OP - the statement was that you just don't get it (creationism), But its obvious you get some of it... Its not about taking the "feel good pill of religion" or God. Its about all that is relevant in understanding. A few (or many) scientific inquires that disprove creationism or the bible, account for only a small piece of the puzzle in life to WTF is "really" going on here. I don't know, you don't know. And that's basically it. We don't know.

The Evolution theory model, just like the Big Bang theory model, are in a constant working progress. They're not finished, and if you think they are yer definitely mistaken. YES, from what it looks like from most scientific perspectives they are the ones that make the most sense, so adjust theory and continue in progress. There will be a day when things make more sense, I don't think i'll live to see it.

I am also christian, and before you ridicule me of any ignorance, let me say that the bible, taken literally, is insane. and compared to a modern understanding of interpreting literature, its extremely vague. But, that does not mean I don't believe what happened in it. I just take the bible as for the answer to "why" and not "how".

It is said you must believe all that happened in the bible or none at all, but it does not say either "why" or "how" nor both. It is much more easy to answer why we are here, than to answer how. "how" (as of right now) is all math, and has little to do with how I live my life. Mortality basically sucks, and I wanna live forever just not on earth with "sin".

lol is heaven a false promise? who cares, I'm not gonna be around for the cool science fiction novel reality anyway.

reply to post by juveous


Im not going to ridicule you for being a christian. I respect your opinion because it's thought out and rational. I used to be a christian too, and a few years ago I was a creationist, so I do get creationism but when I learned that evolution was not equal to atheism but rather the rejection of dated fables, I had to follow my gut, I became an "evolutionist". What I don't get is why others are so unable to do the same. Someone said that these people are unable to distinguish doctrine from deity, which makes sense to me.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by juveous

 

Im not going to ridicule you for being a christian. I respect your opinion because it's thought out and rational. I used to be a christian too, and a few years ago I was a creationist, so I do get creationism but when I learned that evolution was not equal to atheism but rather the rejection of dated fables, I had to follow my gut, I became an "evolutionist". What I don't get is why others are so unable to do the same. Someone said that these people are unable to distinguish doctrine from deity, which makes sense to me.

Those that believe that a supreme being created all existence most likely believe that everything that happens is on purpose, and in a constant order. But with evolution alone, chance and randomness guide everything. All living things have a direction, but if survival is the direction, then all life is very lucky. "everything is either permitted or nothing is" (*false dilemma, i knw)

reply to post by juveous


they've got it wrong. Mutation is random and to certain degree, so is the environment BUT natural selection is not. Natural selection is just that, selective meaning what ever is best and most functional, wins.

What you said is basically like me saying that I'm lucky because I was born in NZ. Luck doesn't have anything to do with it, I could have been born anywhere but I HAD to be born somewhere.

They just don't recognise this, because they don't listen.

If they did, there would be a lot more Theistic Evolutionists out there.

[edit on 10/21/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by juveous

 

they've got it wrong. Mutation is random and to certain degree, so is the environment BUT natural selection is not. Natural selection is just that, selective meaning what ever is best and most functional, wins.

but that's just it, where is the drive? there must be some direction or orientated goal of any given organism given the qualities of each one. It is easy to imagine the process, but even with advanced genome simulators today, no science lab has re-created even close to a trans-species evolution process. I don't know why it is so excepted as fact, when it is obviously unfinished. Predictability doesn't constitute scientific fact, only a "most likely" fact.

reply to post by juveous


Are you kidding? Every single gene mutation is a possible trans-species evolutionary step, depending on whether the individual with it passes it on.

I don't get the 'where are the transitionals' argument - every animal that ever has been or ever will be is a transitional form between two species. It's like you can't see the forest for the trees.