Thought "Particles"

Consider the following.

Consider that every action you make is controlled by your brain. Consider that your brain, biologically speaking, is a bunch of cells interpreting chemical and electrical signals and sending similar signals throughout your body as a result. Consider that these cells are, themselves, made up of chemicals, and that if you go down far enough, your brain is made of the same materials as a block of wood, albeit in different proportions.

Consider that chemical reactions are predictable. Burning two parts of hydrogen in one part of oxygen (assuming complete combustion) would result in one part water vapor. Predictable and consistent.

Thought is not predictable in the same way. One cannot predict with certainty the way the human brain will react to a stimulus, not in the same way one can predict that chemical x plus chemical y reacts to form chemical xy.

Although the brain is chemical in nature, it does not act accordingly. Otherwise, every action right down to the last breath has been determined since birth. Human interaction would be extremely rare because it would involve stacks upon stacks of coincidences.

This has led me to believe that we’re missing part of the picture. If free will exists (and it does, as shown by the ability of humans to react to outside stimulus in creative and unpredictable ways), there must be something else responsible for thought itself; for logic and creativity and pathos, for all the emotions and for all the “keys” of the mind.

Consider a clock. No matter how many fancy dials and gauges are driven by the clockwork, the fact of the matter is that without an outside power source, it will not function. Thus, early clockmakers discovered that a tightly-coiled spring and accompanying drivetrain of gears and levers, would drive even the most advanced clock.

Therefore consider this; there is a type of particle, probably subatomic, as yet undetected by humans, which provides the “power” of the brain. And, much like the orientation of the spring relative to the clockwork, the orientation of this particle relative to the brain would change the actions of the individual. Like all particles, it is in free motion; explaining free thought. However, like all particles, it must interact with other matter.

Consider what humans call “chemistry” when talking about a relationship. The way two people seem to “hit it off”. How they feel “connected”. Consider that in a relationship, even the loose relationship of a workplace or classroom, the views of others have an impact on your own. It could be that this is caused by a property of what I’m going to call the Thought Particle, similar to hydrogen bonding. The TP has some sort of charge (not EM, or we would have detected it by now) that causes other TPs near it to change their direction. Naturally this effect would be more pronounced in large groups; the so-called “mob mentality” being an extreme example.

Thoughts?

There are no "Particles" really its all really Waves my friend. Matter is just waves of energy at a certain vibration and organizational structure.

Indeed the nature of the "thoughts" we have , and why you are getting confused with the chemical reactions within the brain, and looking for a "material" phenomina or explanation, iss that those reactions create an electric brain. Just like coal going into a power station. Chemical reaction or fuel in, like the chemistry you describe within the brain, and electricity out.

This electricity in the wires from the power station is not a bunch of "particles" moving along the wire, just electrons sharing and moving a charge.

The electron's at the begining of the wire don't then move to the end to give us electricty, its just waves of energy, from one electron to the next.

The same in the brain. Your awareness consciousness, and experiences of reading my post are all based on the current electrical activity in your brain, The electrical patterns are created by chemical reactions, but those waves of energy and your experience of them are not caused by the chemical reaction.

Trying to look for the matter that thoughts are made of is, like trying to find the taste of a cake by eating flour.

EEG have been placed in Lab experiments on people, then without them knowing they have been focused on by certain Healers, their brains literally lit up like Christmas trees electrically when this happened, as thoughts are within the electromagnetic spectrum, and therefor like radio or TV waves can go through matter.


Kind Regards,

Elf.

I used to like a "chemicals between us" idea. some guy said it to me once when we were in a pub.

he said:
"don't you think it's strange how it's easier to communicate with certain people."
I didn't think it particularly strange. Then he said:
"maybe it's like the chemicals between us...blah blah blah."
And then i thought - hmm, that's interesting and sciency - but i didn't really believe it.

now I believe it even less.

I believe that human interaction/behaviour is a result of some sort of proramming. That's, at least, how it feels to me. Sometimes I think that I have been programmed.

Right now, it actually feels like i've been programmed to write this reply. which would mean that i was programmed to read your post.

But then what happens when the machine realises it's being programmed? does it try to 'act out'? What if the machines idea of 'acting out' is actually further programming. maybe it was programmed to think that is was programmed as an experiment? who knows?

is there really any "free will"?

Originally posted by Ephiram-Lo

Consider that chemical reactions are predictable. Burning two parts of hydrogen in one part of oxygen (assuming complete combustion) would result in one part water vapor. Predictable and consistent.

But what you can't predict is the shape, path, span, etc. of that vapor without considering the influence of other forces. That's thought. The chemical reactions are the same in all of us but the vapors can look quite different thanks largely to the variety of outside influences and circumstances provided by "reality".

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark
The chemical reactions are the same in all of us but the vapors can look quite different thanks largely to the variety of outside influences and circumstances provided by "reality".

I like this one. maybe that's how the programming works?

[edit on 13-9-2008 by surrender_dorothy]

reply to post by surrender_dorothy



Have you ever been in an altered state of consciousness, perhaps artificially made that way and then perhaps came upon this type of realization?

Only to respond in a very unscientific way.

"Oh no, dude!"

reply to post by dunwichwitch


are you starting?

i'll bloody have yer!

reply to post by surrender_dorothy

Cool post. What you see may just be the truth.

According to some researchers, our brains make decisions unconsciously before we start thinking 'this is what I'm going to do'.

Some philosophers say it is impossible to make a decision that isn't based on a combination of your present circumstances, your personal history and your genetic inheritance. Any decision that wasn't based on them would be random, irrational.

These things support the conclusion that there is no free will.

How does the organism respond to this? In the way that has already been determined by its own, personal circumstances, history and genetics. Even if it fights against the laws of determinism, it does so at the behest of those laws.

Scary thought, eh? Best to forget it. Relax and enjoy the ride.

Waves are all very good, but they cannot cause an effect without matter. Yes, EM waves can travel in vacuum, but they can't be measured except by the way in which they interact with matter.

For an example; consider a photon. It is at once both wave and particle; it propagates and may be cancelled out like a wave, but has mass like a particle. Perhaps thought behaves in the same way -- which would explain "telekenisis" (if you buy into that sort of thing).