The Evidence For Jesus' Existence is Overwhelming

You know I find it really fascinating and inspiring just knowing that you athiests and agnostics and science guys ..are still in this thread ...for some reason I actually think that you believe more than you think you do (In other words your minds are telling you no and your HEART is telling you YES) ..........or you would not be so interested in all of this for so long even (days months years lol) ..I know you would have better things to do than this thread or this subject ... ..if you really did not believe (even a little bit) you would not waste your time ..would you ?

I dont buy that your trying to get us blindly led Jesus sheep (sarcasm yes lol)
to stop believeing that their is proof ..and I dont even think yall enjoy debateing this subject much with us believers ..because alot of you get too fired up sometimes ...so your not enjoying it .
So the only reasons I could come up with your here is because you WANT TO LET GO and BELIEVE ....because deep down you know its true ..
The Proof will come once you really for real are ready to really want to know ..(Not just say you do .. in your mind you are still being stubborn..so you have to really really want to know the truth (for once let you heart think before your MIND does) ... ..then the truth will set you free ..just watch and see ...the truth comes when you really ask for it ..but dont expect it to be a piece paper proving something ..but something real and spiritual that will BLOW YOU AWAY with enough proof to get you on your knees and sorry for all of this nonsense unbelief ..

Your so close ........

[edit on 27-9-2008 by Simplynoone]

Originally posted by Kapyong
Gday all,

Originally posted by Bombeni
Is it absolute proof of Jesus' existence? No, not in and of itself.

No.
It isn't.
The existence of a real person in a work of fiction does NOT prove any such thing.

Just as the existence of London does not prove James Bond real.
Just as the existence of Mt Olympus does not prove Zeus real.

Originally posted by Bombeni
It is just one more of hundreds of clues that can only lead to one conCLUsion, that Jesus did in fact live and further that he performed miracles and that his life had an impact unrivaled by history.

That's faithful BELIEF, not a conclusion.

Originally posted by Bombeni
Consider the hundreds of Messianic prophecies fulfilled.

None of which stand up to scrutiny.
The NT was written by people who knew the OT, they just made up the alleged "prophecies" based on the earlier book.

This is no more miraculous than The Lord of Rings fulfilling "prophecies" in The Hobbit.

It means nothing at all.

Originally posted by Bombeni
Did the OT prophets as well as the NT prophets, disciples, historical writers, governors, emperors, etc. all play a part in a conspiracy to fabricate The Son of Man?

No.
The Jesus Myth argument is NOT about a conspiracy at all (of course, there are plenty of conspiracy claims on THIS site, nothing to do with NT scholarship though.)

If you think the Jesus Myth argument is about a "conspiracy" then you know nothing about the argument at all.

Kapyong

I just love this -------"The NT was written by people who knew the OT, they just made up the alleged "prophecies" based on the earlier book" (your words). Every last one of them was in it. They all got together and agreed on events that would accurately coincide with ancient predictions. LOL. Mary, Joseph, Jesus, 12 disciples, Josephus, Pontius Pilate and his wife, Roman governors, etc etc etc, conspired to dupe the people with the OT prophecies. Wow, guess they did a bang-up job because by 325 AD, the following of Jesus, Christianity, became the official religion of the Roman Empire. Within 500 years, even Greece's temples of Greek gods were transformed into churches for followers of Jesus. Thanks for the morning funny! I can skip the comic pages today.

reply to post by Simplynoone


Hi Simplynoone, I agree, I think they are actually trying to convince themselves more than anyone else that Jesus didn't exist or wasn't God. They know they can't convince us so why would they even bother?

Wouldn't that be easier to just think this is all there is, we came from a rock and when we die we become nothing? But I believe the inate knowledge of Him is within all of us, and that we were put on this earth to choose. Remember, Jesus said "you can't serve two masters, you'll love one and hate the other" (Matthew 6:24).

The other side of the fight is US trying to convince THEM. So many times it seems completely futile, but then I think, what if on Judgement Day one of them looks at me and says "Bombeni, you knew. You knew and yet you said nothing."

[edit on 29-9-2008 by Bombeni]

No, I am not a christian. I do belive-know that " proof of Jesus' existence?" is real and his father, the Almighty God is real. The "proof" is in "praying to Jesus". Praying is real, if the faith in Jesus is real. I ask the none beliviers if they could pray to Jesus for the "proof", if nothing happens then there is nothing to worry about. If you do honestly pray to Jesus with faith and trust then tell him in pray, what is the problem...I am sure that he will answer you. If you have faith in pray to Jesus, then he will have faith in answering you...

Originally posted by Bombeni
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

Hi Simplynoone, I agree, I think they are actually trying to convince themselves more than anyone else that Jesus didn't exist or wasn't God. They know they can't convince us so why would they even bother?

Wouldn't that be easier to just think this is all there is, we came from a rock and when we die we become nothing? But I believe the innate knowledge of Him is within all of us, and that we were put on this earth to choose. Remember, Jesus said "you can't serve two masters, you'll love one and hate the other" (Matthew 6:24).

The other side of the fight is US trying to convince THEM. So many times it seems completely futile, but then I think, what if on Judgement Day one of them looks at me and says "Bombeni, you knew. You knew and you didn't say anything. Why?"

[edit on 29-9-2008 by Bombeni]

Exactly ....which is the only reason why we are still in these threads right lol ..

reply to post by Bombeni

I just love this -------"The NT was written by people who knew the OT, they just made up the alleged "prophecies" based on the earlier book" (your words). Every last one of them was in it. They all got together and agreed on events that would accurately coincide with ancient predictions. LOL. Mary, Joseph, Jesus, 12 disciples, Josephus, Pontius Pilate and his wife, Roman governors, etc etc etc, conspired to dupe the people with the OT prophecies. Wow, guess they did a bang-up job because by 325 AD, the following of Jesus, Christianity, became the official religion of the Roman Empire.

Sorry, you lose.
Have you ever thought that those people (Mary, Joseph, etc, etc) may never existed? And that maybe the Roman Catholic Church conspired to create a new religion based on this alleged Jesus?
This is not the first time that it has ever happened, nor will it be the last.

Within 500 years, even Greece's temples of Greek gods were transformed into churches for followers of Jesus. Thanks for the morning funny! I can skip the comic pages today.

THIS is pretty funny. You have just proved Zeitgeist's case. Wow, talk about foot in your mouth.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
You know I find it really fascinating and inspiring just knowing that you athiests and agnostics and science guys ..are still in this thread ...for some reason I actually think that you believe more than you think you do (In other words your minds are telling you no and your HEART is telling you YES) ..........or you would not be so interested in all of this for so long even (days months years lol) ..I know you would have better things to do than this thread or this subject ... ..if you really did not believe (even a little bit) you would not waste your time ..would you ?

I have been a christian for about 25 years. I have been 'saved', gone to churches every Sunday, even preached, and the whole 9 yards.
The more I read the bible, the more suspicious I get. I decided to abandon Christianity. That does not mean I am an atheist.
I am very interested in debating because I enjoy it and because it will keep the fundamentalist christians at bay and keep them out of political area. I do not want to see the church control the nation. Now that's a conspiracy!

I dont buy that your trying to get us blindly led Jesus sheep (sarcasm yes lol)
to stop believeing that their is proof

I doubt that is the intent of some people here. When a religion person push his or her belief on us, we have to defend ourselves and point out weaknesses in his belief. You see?
Would you do the same when a muslim try to force his belief on you?
I am not saying that you are trying to force your beliefs on us. That is what some members here have done. This is what leading Christians today have done.

So the only reasons I could come up with your here is because you WANT TO LET GO and BELIEVE ....because deep down you know its true ..

Been there done that.

The Proof will come once you really for real are ready to really want to know ..(Not just say you do .. in your mind you are still being stubborn..so you have to really really want to know the truth (for once let you heart think before your MIND does) ... ..then the truth will set you free ..just watch and see ...the truth comes when you really ask for it ..but dont expect it to be a piece paper proving something ..but something real and spiritual that will BLOW YOU AWAY with enough proof to get you on your knees and sorry for all of this nonsense unbelief ..

My heart has been open for a long time. I'm still waiting.

Your so close ........

I can say the same thing about you.

[That is what some members here have done. This is what leading Christians today have done]


I know that some do that ...but they should know that the Lord would not want anyone to come just because they were coerced or forced to come in ...
I didnt even try and force my kids as they will rebel even more against it if I would have .I did share with them my beliefs though ...and they did listen ..the way I see it is that all we are supposed to do is plant a seed (just tell them ) ..and the bible says another will water and God will give the increase ...

Just because we post on these posts does not mean it is being forced on you .None of you are being forced to read anything ..or even listen to what we may have to say ..you could just close your ears to it and put us on ignore .

I dont see how so many say it is being forced just because we talk about it.
I dont consider the Alien threads as them forcing their beliefs on me at all .
In fact I just see them as expressing their beliefs and I can either read them and post if I want to or just walk away and not even take a peek ..

reply to post by Deaf Alien


So, who, please tell me, concccted Mary, Joseph, the disciples, Josephus, Pilate, Nero, etc.? They are all fictitious also? Go ahead, I'm following you. Don't stop now.

reply to post by Bombeni

I think they are actually trying to convince themselves more than anyone else that Jesus didn't exist or wasn't God. They know they can't convince us so why would they even bother?

No.
They are not trying to convince themselves.
They are trying to defend themselves against religion being forced on them. You see?
What would you do if Muslims tried to force their beliefs on you? Would you simply say yes, I believe and just accept? Or will you try to debate with them and point out their weaknesses in their faith?
This is no different.

Wouldn't that be easier to just think this is all there is, we came from a rock and when we die we become nothing?

I don't believe that. This is not the subject of debate.

But I believe the innate knowledge of Him is within all of us, and that we were put on this earth to choose.

Then why worry? What I don't get is Christians' aggressive preaching, witnessing, trying to prove Creationism and that Jesus existed, etc, etc, when, according to the bible and christians, it is so plainly seen? Christians should leave us alone and let us discover the truth for ourselves.

Remember, Jesus said "you can't serve two masters, you'll love one and hate the other" (Matthew 6:24). The other side of the fight is US trying to convince THEM. So many times it seems completely futile, but then I think, what if on Judgement Day one of them looks at me and says "Bombeni, you knew. You knew and you didn't say anything. Why?"

Maybe it's the other way around? When we die and meet again, we will watch you and laugh at your realization that you have been wrong all along?

reply to post by Simplynoone


reply to post by Bombeni


Both of you are probably not too far off. I did more research last night. So now we have the New Testament (which at least consists of some books written by eye witnesses), we have historical secular and Jewish sources from the 1st and 2nd century (not eye witnesses but still of extreme importance), and then on top of the current thread dealing with the Christian tomb, there was another burial cave discovered with even more Biblical names (including the names of the apostles, Mary, Mary Martha, etc.).

The burial caves of these first century Christians match the NT names of people associated with Jesus and the ossuaries have commemorative inscriptions of 'Jesus,' 'Christ,' and the traditional Christian cross (not the gnostic cross, Egyptian ankh, etc.).

The skeptics can say:
1). There is no way to prove the NT eye witness accounts were eye witness accounts.
2). The secular accounts are too late to be reliable.
3). And the inscriptions just prove there were first century Christians who believed in Jesus.

That makes no sense. In the other thread people were screaming about how Nero, Alexander, Pilate, etc. had 'inscriptions.' Well, there are inscriptions of Jesus, the Christ, and the Cross dating from the first half of the the 1st century A.D.

After seeing so much, I don't think I'll ever have this debate again with those who deny Jesus' existence. Anyone who denies His existence does it because they choose to do so.

reply to post by Deaf Alien

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
My heart has been open for a long time. I'm still waiting.

DA, do you really mean this? I think I have something that can help you. If you truly are interested in seeing it, I will u2u it. It is supposed to be a thread I was going to start in the BTS Faith forum and was a collection of some pretty interesting things that I believe are very strong evidence for the Judeo-Christian God's existence. But I'm so tried of the haters around here that I have been hesitant.

May I u2u you the thread I created so far? The video information alone is about 3 hours worth of material and then the article links would take about a week to get through. If you want to see it, I'll u2u you but you mention religious people pushing their beliefs on others and I don't want you to see me that way.

reply to post by Deaf Alien


Mmm, well last time I checked, assuming you are American, Canadian or anywhere in the free world, you can choose how you believe. Now you have a point about muslims, however you might get your head chopped off for disagreeing with them if you live in their country.

I'm preaching? No, I am sharing my beliefs. It isn't up to me whether you find God or not, you yourself must ask Him to come into your heart. Also, didn't I just read that YOU are the one who has done the preaching?

As far as meeting up one day on the other side, and ME discovering I was wrong? I sincerely hope you are right.

reply to post by Simplynoone

Just because we post on these posts does not mean it is being forced on you .None of you are being forced to read anything ..or even listen to what we may have to say ..you could just close your ears to it and put us on ignore . I dont see how so many say it is being forced just because we talk about it. I dont consider the Alien threads as them forcing their beliefs on me at all . In fact I just see them as expressing their beliefs and I can either read them and post if I want to or just walk away and not even take a peek ..

You are right about that. HOWEVER, those kind of arguments give christians and church strength over people. The church has been trying to influence politics for years and trying to control people. See? We have to stop them.
You can ignore threads from muslims if you want. However, if the muslims are trying to influence politics, what will you do? Bingo, the same as us.

reply to post by AshleyD


WOW! All three ganged up on me! Many new posts since I talked with somebody on yahoo messenger. Gosh, I need to keep up!

DA, do you really mean this? I think I have something that can help you. If you truly are interested in seeing it, I will u2u it. It is supposed to be a thread I was going to start in the BTS Faith forum and was a collection of some pretty interesting things that I believe are very strong evidence for the Judeo-Christian God's existence. But I'm so tried of the haters around here that I have been hesitant. May I u2u you the thread I created so far? The video information alone is about 3 hours worth of material and then the article links would take about a week to get through. If you want to see it, I'll u2u you but you mention religious people pushing their beliefs on others and I don't want you to see me that way.

Ashely, sure you can u2u me your thread. I haven't been on BTS in a while.

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
WOW! All three ganged up on me! Many new posts since I talked with somebody on yahoo messenger. Gosh, I need to keep up!

LOL. No one is ganging up on you, Hon. But I know how you feel. Lately it feels if I say a single word in the CIR or OC forums, I get pounced by 3-4 non-Christians all bombarding me with loaded questions or insults. Please don't feel that way. I only left one comment above.

Ashely, sure you can u2u me your thread. I haven't been on BTS in a while.

Sent to you privately. I still haven't made up my mind to post it on BTS just yet.

reply to post by Bombeni

Mmm, well last time I checked, assuming you are American, Canadian or anywhere in the free world, you can choose how you believe. Now you have a point about muslims, however you might get your head chopped off for disagreeing with them if you live in their country.

That is what happens when people let religion influence politics.
People have been burned at stake, even their heads chopped off, etc. for going against the Roman Catholic Church. Thank goodness things have changed.
Jerry Falwell wanted homosexuals and evolution teachers thrown in jail. He had a strong influence on politics. He was friends with some presidents. (Off topic, I went to Liberty University and talked with him on few occasions). What's next? Death penalty for all atheists?
Jerry Falwell was one of many leading preachers in nation. Imagine if they are allowed to influence politics and change the laws. I don't know your denomination but let's assume that you are a Pentecostal. What would you do if they tried to pass a law that all christians must be baptist?

As far as meeting up one day on the other side, and ME discovering I was wrong? I sincerely hope you are right.

Im right

reply to post by Bombeni

So, who, please tell me, concccted Mary, Joseph, the disciples, Josephus, Pilate, Nero, etc.? They are all fictitious also? Go ahead, I'm following you. Don't stop now.

We don't know for sure. There are too many parallels in different religions to ignore. Have you seen Zeitgeist? I'm sure you have. That is just but one example.
We are not 100% sure if any of historical figures existed or not. The best we have is the probability of any one of them existing. Josephus and Nero have a very high probability that they existed.

Jerry Falwell is a DOMINIONIST ...
I am not one of them I promise you .
And I am certainly NOT Catholic either .


I love all of you the same ..I do not wish any ill on any of you ...I want nothing but BLESSINGS for you all ...And I do not wish that any of you suffer ...THATS WHAT THE LORD WANTS FOR YOU AS WELL >>

If there are Christians wanting anything bad to happen to any of you then they are not CHRISTIANS ...

Jesus did not go to all the trouble he went through because he wishes bad on you .....he did it all because he loves you and wants whats best for you ..
Why cant anyone see that .
Just forget the Jerry Falwells and the Popes ..etc etc ....they are NOT THE LORD ..neither do they SPEAK FOR THE LORD ..if that is what they preach teach then THEY DO NOT KNOW THE LORD >>>And you know that too ...

I would give my life for you ....whether your homosexual,athiest,or my worst enemy .....thats how much I care for you ....
And I believe that was why God sent his son Jesus ...he gave his life FOR YOU ......would you give your life for someone you hate or someone you wish would just go to hell .....? NO ....

all I can say is MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON THE JERRY FALWELLS AND THE POPES and the Dominionists and all of those who pray for BAD THINGS TO HAPPEN to people ...They will certainly GET THEIRS dont you worry about that ..

The bible says they will be JUDGED harshly and may even find themselves in the place where they preached you were all headed for ...

They make me so mad ...but they also make me sad ..they do not realize what they are doing ..and I am praying more for them more than I am for unbelievers .....MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON US ALL >>.


[edit on 29-9-2008 by Simplynoone]

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
Have you seen Zeitgeist?

Zeitgeist has been debunked for over a year. In fact, actually, all the information they used in their video project was debunked possibly up to a century ago. Then Zeitgeist came out and people directly debunked the info in the video. It wasn't too hard- all the info had already been debunked. lol

reply to post by AshleyD

Zeitgeist has been debunked for over a year. In fact, actually, all the information they used in their video project was debunked possibly up to a century ago. Then Zeitgeist came out and people directly debunked the info in the video. It wasn't too hard- all the info had already been debunked. lol

lol okay. But do you admit that there are some parallels in different religions?