Who here lives in the ghettos?

I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this, but I think so... because I assume that most people here who are posting every day are at least lower middle class and have constant access to the internet. Some of you, I may be wrong.

Anyway, to get to the point... this is about the psychology of the middle class. I am also what you would consider middle class, having been living in a suburban neighborhood pretty much my whole life. I'll admit, if you are living this life every day and you're never exposed to another way of life, anything outside of this suburban sprawl would be hard to understand. I'm writing this in response to several threads about issues facing what we would consider "poor" people in this country. To me, I just can't understand the lack of compassion many people on this website exhibit towards the needy, considering them lazy, living off the hard work of others, uneducated, and completely capable of getting a good enough education in order to move up in the world. Basically, to hide the giant blight of apathy that has befallen our species, people who have accumulated more things get spiteful at the people who have just had bad luck and not accumulated much or not had as much motivation to do so as them, and actually blame these people for taking what little they can get, calling them selfish. I think that's the pot calling the kettle black, in my opinion.

First of all, like the thread title asks.... Have you or do you currently live in a ghetto? I haven't either. I can't pretend to know fully what people in dire circumstances like this go through every day. I've done some time in Juvenile Hall when I was 17, and I made friends with all the gangsta gangsta African American kids. They were mostly awesome and very caring people....which very much surprised my white suburban (and before then kind of racist) mindset. I often asked these guys "Why don't people in the projects just get their act together and get a job and avoid the gangs and get out? This is America! We're all free to get what we want out of life."
They laughed so hard whenever UI asked this, saying "Man, you don't understand the ghetto." I remember them telling me that gangs often have almost complete control of the ghetto, and most kids in the projects turn to crime and gangs and drug dealing as a way to protect them and their family's lives. They told me that once you're in, it's very hard to get out. Employers are more racist and judgmental of past offenses than they would lead the "average" person to believe... and the inner city schools don't really provide kids with the adequate education and opportunities to move ahead that suburban schools do. So really, how many options do you have in a situation like that? It's easy to say that you have plenty of options when you're not in that type of situation... but think about the majority of your fellow suburbians, and how many actually consider that there's something more out there? Think of that majority rules mindset, and then apply it to a different situation.

You may look at the suburbs and think that this sterile superficially polite and politically correct mentality is the majority.... but it's really not. Most of America is low income and "poor".

You may say you've worked hard for what you earn, and that only the strong survive, and that you're not gunna help these people who aren't helping themselves... but that's not very humanly or social or communal of you.
We're all humans with the same basic desires... the desire to feel loved and important is the most prominent one.... and if you've been made to feel like the scum of society your whole life, you're most likely NOT going to have much motivation to get ahead, other than taking what you need to get by.

Too many people are hording their earnings in this modern society, and I don't see anything very social about that. I see contradictions everywhere. I see people using Darwinian philosophy of "Only the strongest survive" to justify their greed and cowering in fear of losing their accumulated stuff, YET I see those same people with that mentality defending government and defending organizations. If it's every man for himself, why do we constantly ask for a government? Let's just do away with social structure in any form, because we only care about the people that benefit us and our fight against everyone else for survival. If it's only the strongest survive, then why does anybody ever care about the weak? Why don't we just start a eugenics program to kill off all the socially unfit and the poor, therefore eliminating the problem of those under-classed citizens who don't see much motivation in getting ahead in a society that has already shunned them?

Do people see what I'm saying? We're shunning people with almost no income who are struggling daily to survive, yet most of us have no idea what they are experiencing. Most of us see plenty of motivation in earning money to accumulate things... but I'll admit to you something. I don't. Not when it's every man for himself. Not when those things can't provide true friendship. Not when those things can't tell you a joke to cheer you up when you are depressed. Not when the very things we direct our whole lives towards achieving are the very reasons lives are being ruined and taken, the very reason the world doesn't care about each other...

I don't see much motivation in money, and pretty soon, I may be out on the streets... and when apathy turns a blind eye towards I and the other "vagrants" on the street who don't find motivation is something that's proven itself time after time after time to be just morally wrong, it is very possible that we will TAKE whatever we can just to get by until the next day.
Are the people who scrounge whatever they can get just to survive bad people? Or are they just not motivated by the same things that the majority is motivated by? Instead of just shunning people.... why don't you ask them a question, such as: "What WOULD motivate you?" or "What can I do to help you succeed and enjoy your stay here on Earth?"

As fellow humans, we all deserve to be cared for by somebody. I don't think the government should be charged with this task at all. They just use poor people to further their police state mentality. I think it's up to US to give everyone a motivation to live and be successful and be happy... and with our current "For profit" system which everyone is operating off of, there's just no room for that.

It's MIND CONTROL, man! When you look at money and the economy and all of that from a strictly BEING standpoint.... there's no wonder apathy towards the poor and derelict runs so astonishingly rampant. Divide and conquer... and instilling a system of belief in hording for one's self and immediate others who benefit self is the perfect strategy.

I hope I'm making sense to some here. I'm sure most people at most would read what I'm saying and go "hmmm interesting concept" and then go about the same behavior which I'm advising against because there's no room for it in their current operational mode, and many will simply just make some offhand comment in an attemt to insult or dissuade from the issues at hand, but this IS the issue. Apathetic mentality, which is entirely indoctrinated and controlled by the elite of the world through monetary and corporate and governmental and scientific and religious implementations, will be the death of us all.

In the words of the Beatles, we need to "Come together, right now." That includes having compassion for the poor and the weak. They want the same things we all do, and itis up to US, not the government, to give EVERYONE a fair opportunity to make their life what they want it to be. Nobody is born a criminal or a vagrant. We're all born human, no matter what color, class, religion, family history, creed, country, etc. that we are born into. We're all human, and we all need to reach out to each other in order to survive much longer.

Not sure if it would be considered ghetto, but in Ghost town, Venice CA

This is my first post, so bear with me.

I live right on the border of Baltimore City and Baltimore County, and some of the lower class ghettos that you are talking about are a walking distance from here. Most people think that the really lower class don't get what they deserve, and it's because of the actions of the upper class that they can't grow and develop, but I don't think that is true.

The government buys and lets lower income family have homes in Baltimore, free to very low rent, and it completely destroys neighborhoods. I personally witnessed an entire neighborhood being built up from scratch and saw an array of new people moving in. It took about a year, and every house had broken and boarded windows, garbage in the streets, and an overall terrible atmosphere. People that have that much disregard for a kind gesture have no place in today's society, you can only help people so much.

As far as your comment that you think the upper class is shunning the lower class, I can tell you that your tax dollars pay for the lower class whether they deserve it or not. Whether or not they realize it, they support them, and in most cases it isn't even deserved.

I believe the famous quote holds true, "Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and feed him for life." If lower class wants to work and make money and grow, they have all of the opportunities they need. If they want a free ride from the government and taxpayers, I don't want to support or associate with them. I think maybe people need to shun them and knock some sense back into them.




[edit on 10-9-2008 by Traffic]

[edit on 10-9-2008 by Traffic]

I don't live in the ghetto, I live in a middle class area that has become primarily black.

No projects, no homeless, no public transportation for several miles. Everyone has a car (if you don't have a car you can't get anywhere, except maybe a gas station 2 miles down the road). People have jobs, decent houses etc...

Not a ghetto. But is there plenty of crime? Yup. Bullet proof glass? Yup. Shootings and robberies? Yup. Drive by shooting on my street? Yup.
It is NOT due to poverty. These are middle class people.

Can you explain to me why crime is a problem here? Can you explain to me why as soon as neighborhoods undergo an "ethnic" change the crime rate soars despite the standard of living?

Blaming it on "poverty" is a nice PC excuse. It is far deeper than poverty, it is cultural.

reply to post by Sonya610


I concur. I have watched this repeatedly in my city and the various neighborhoods I have lived in. If you speak that certain ethnic groups glorify crime and gangster mentality over civic duty, then you are branded a racist. After effects of a politically correct brainwashed society.

This is an important topic that is hard to answer. I was raised upper middle class, but most of my friends thought I was a “rich” kid. Now, I’m poor! I’m a single mom with two college degrees, and I’m poor ($20,000 a yr is a good year for me). However, I do not live in the ghetto/projects. When I think of what you mean by ghetto, I think drug-infested, government housing, poor African American communities. Yes, the majority of the people in the ghetto are African American. But, the ghetto and the ghetto mentality is not limited to what you might consider the bad part of town.

The whys of this issue are deep. Even though I have seen more than some middle class people have seen, I am not an expert and can not speak for the people you want to understand. I can only point out some of my personal observations.

First, you should think of Katrina. Remember the Dome and those unfortunate poor stranded to fend for themselves? There was outrage (as there should have been). Is this the type of treatment that you see on TV and saddens you? It should. But, you need to ask yourself, why didn’t anyone care about these people a month before the hurricane hit? A year before? Five years? Because no one wants to know. These are the invisible people. Do you think the Dome was a huge shift in their experiencing of “reality?” Did they get to the Dome and wonder why no one cared? NO! It was the same old sh#! Sometimes when I’d hear other people talking about the “travesty,” I wondered what they really meant. Sorry those poor people made you uncomfortable. The Dome is a rare case of making those people visible.

I bring up Katrina because I think good hearted people ask the wrong questions and stick to the surface of experience….looking for a simple answer or solution.

Poor people want the same things your want (material wealth and friends/family). They are motivated to “want” all day long, but that does not change the “facts.” Education is not equal! Fathers are in prison. People self-medicate with drugs and alcohol (not just about addiction…don’t forget self-medicating for illness and/or depression). People can not afford “healthy” food because ding dongs and chips cost LESS and are more filling.

Here’s a random thought. My kids need new glasses every year. Without glasses, they cannot see the chalkboard. If they can’t see the chalk board, they get behind and get bad grades. Who’s going to buy Ghetto-Johhy’s glasses every year? Will he just give up and think he’s stupid?

It’s complicated. Life is not fair. They know this and get by just fine without bleeding hearts. Yes, that’s attitude. And, you’ll get a lot of attitude from those who detect any patronizing tone coming from the middle class people (even if not intended by the good hearted person). The attitude can create an even larger rift. Do you want to help an angry black man? Remember, the media shows us the “angry black man” way too often. Why is he someone to fear? Shame.

In general, people need to ask better questions.

Have you watched the Maury P. show? The who’s your daddy, DNA testing shows he runs over and over? Here’s a good question; why is this entertainment? Think for a moment. . . aren’t the majority of women on that show African-American? How is it that a minority group ends up as a majority? This show feeds into the stereotype that black women are promiscuous. It’s sickening to think that these women are being used for ratings.

One last point. I’m white. I’m sitting at a table with one of my friends (African-American), and another white chick joins us. Now, granted, she was drunk, but she started talking about Martin Luther King, Jr and equality. First, the white chick interrupted our personal conversation (not about race), so my friend was annoyed by this intrusion. She turned to the woman and said
to be cont...

She turned to the woman and said, “Why do white people always want to talk to me about black folk?” Then she added, “Do you white folk sit around and talk about Martin Luther King, Jr or save it up for black ears?” Her comment has always stayed with me. So, I ask you…

Why do you want to talk to people in the ghetto?
The people in the ghetto don’t want to talk to you.
Do you talk to your affluent friends about the poor?
Maybe all we can do is start with our own awareness and our own community.

ok.
from
middle class
to
little bit millions
to
ghetto
to
middle class

now
middle class (enjoying...)

the point of it?
so up to the mountain,
so down on the mountain...

Originally posted by Pamie
It’s complicated. Life is not fair. They know this and get by just fine without bleeding hearts. Yes, that’s attitude. And, you’ll get a lot of attitude from those who detect any patronizing tone coming from the middle class people (even if not intended by the good hearted person).

It is unfortunate that you ended up a single mom, and you are having a hard time supporting the children you chose to have.

Yes it is unfortunate that there are poor people. Neither you or your children will starve, and if you are below the poverty level your kids will receive basic healthcare.

They will survive. Do the best you can. However if your children turn into CRIMINALS that go out and victimize OTHERS then blame yourself, not the fact you were poor. I will blame you, as will much of society. You are the parent and it is YOUR job to see that they are raised with basic morals. Many of the finest Americans were born poor.

reply to post by Sonya610


I agree, parents need to parent. But, it's not unfortunate that I'm a single mother. It's just a fact. I did plan my children, but I did not plan on my husband leaving me. So, I deal with what life has thrown at me. Remember, I grew up in an upper-middle class home. I had hope for a better life (and I think I have a good life), so I know how to stear my kids in the right direction. Yes, I agree with you that parents are responsible. But, I don't know if blaming the parents (without good life skills) helps anyone. Crime breeds crime. If we are dealing with a cycle of violence, how does blame help? Fathers go to jail, boys/girls are raised without dad, they grow up and turn to crime, they have kids, they grow up and turn to crime. . .cycle. Blame makes others feel better about themselves. But, what does it fix?

Originally posted by Pamie
Fathers go to jail, boys/girls are raised without dad, they grow up and turn to crime, they have kids, they grow up and turn to crime. . .cycle. Blame makes others feel better about themselves. But, what does it fix?

Good point. It is all about "blame". We can't blame the welfare parents that have kids and don't work yet STILL can't manage to pay attention to their own kids, and we can't blame the criminals, because that would be wrong.

Who can we blame? Oh, the people that are NOT raising criminals, the people that are working, paying their own bills, stretching their dollars as far as they can because they don't get anything "free", limiting the size of their families so they can pay for their kids education. Lets blame THOSE people.

That is exactly what our society is doing. Blame those that work hard and say it is THEIR fault because they are busy working and trying to raise decent families and they do nothing to "help" (except pay for the food, shelter, education, and healthcare of the poor people they are supposedly "victimizing").

Funny thing is, if you say that enough everyone believes it!

edited to add: where did my lengthy but still less than 6000 characters post go???

[edit on 10-9-2008 by Busymind]

I'm saying I've made friends with people from "the projects" and while they may have committed stupid and sometimes even violent crimes, I saw the good in them. I'd go so far as to say that a suburban white guy with long hair thrown into a system where it's mostly ethnic guys from gangs in the city made some of the best friends he's ever had in there. Granted we don't see each other anymore, but everyone is viewing themselves as separate and in different situations and such, when in fact we're all in the same situation... different Hells for different people... yet when we're all faced with the same thing, even what you think would be polar opposites who would never ever speak to each other can become really good friends. Why? Because we're all human. What's the reason for this lack of respect for the government building neighborhoods for the poor? Well, why don't you ask the people funding the big time criminals who take over these vulnerable places... trace it up the ladder and I bet you'll find that the very people funding the degredation of urban youth, and even suburban crime, are the very people providing the "solutions". Listen, I know how corrupt the police are. I've witnessed it myself, and time and time again these kids told me how the police made shady dealings with the drug lords. The really bad parts of town, the police mainly only come through either when they are looking to collect a "debt", or when they are looking to make a backdoor dealing. Everything else that the cops do on the outside is for the appearance, and to harass the little guys. The big guys who really mess everything up, they rarely ever touch unless they need a fall guy. Simple as that. I'm not saying all cops are corrupt, but Law and Order is a business. Having safe streets and people who respect each other and work together to better their community, city, state, country.... is not good for their business.

But the psychology behind it is that it looks bad, it looks like human nature, and it's all these sleazy dirtballs in warehouses hiding from the police, and it's "The Law" against "The Cirme" and that's just not totally the case.... the simple fact is that even IF the particular police department is really honestly trying to minimize crime, they are in a fight they cannot win, because the drug cartels that createthe criminals which create the deviant pieces of society, are backed up by governments, including our own US government.

The powers that be are playing one giant mind control game on us, so we think that we are a threat to ourselves, and that we need governing because we are vicious animals at heart.... and I'm telling you now that most of these "criminals" locked away in jail have remorse for what they have done. I knew a guy who killed somebody, and he was such a nice guy, you'd never know it. He had remorse, but he was strung out on drugs and was in a violent gang at the time, and he was driven to do some very bad things. Is he forever damned or evil? I don't think so. Not if I could befriend him and like him for who he was inside.

Society drives people to do some horrible things. Blaming the people is not getting at the root of the problem, and this is why it just keeps getting worse and worse. We're all shouting for the Establishment to "save us from these people", but why is it that every time we ask for a solution, they fool us into giving up more of our rights. It is definitely not sensical to blame any one ethnicity or class of people for what is wrong in this country. Instead, look at the society that created them. The corporations, the governments, the politicians, the powerful families that own all of it.... Do you think the same people who write books about killing millions of people with population control, the same people who finance both sides of every war, the same people who kept slaves, the same people who kill thousands and thousands of innocent people in third world countries whenever there is a war... could have purposely boxed us in to where we are at this point?

It's time we stop blaming each other. Nobody is inherently evil... and there is a lot more going on that we're not being told about. It's time we start considering possibilities that we may consider outlandish... because some of these possibilities, I definitely know exist. You would be horrified to know just how pervasive mind control is... not just the type of mind control where information is controlled and filtered and presented as truth, but stuff like they did in MKULTRA... very sick and twisted stuff.

I for one, don't even believe that our controllers are human. This is why we have no goddamn clue what's going on, because we won't even consider the fact that this massive depredation and separation from each other and the very planet we live on is just not what nature does. Never in the history of Earth has a species evolved that deliberately killed itself and its environment simultaneously. We are intelligent creatures. It's notlike nobody has ever thought of this before. It's been spoken for ages, yet these people were always killed or shunned for speaking such nonsense... because of course humans are always meant to fight and destroy each other and their very home they depend on for survival. That makes no sense.

Conventional wisdom makes no sense. Society makes no sense. Psychologically, society could be classified as insane...without reason or rationale.... yet we're defending it. That's not rational at all.

And explaining crime, even in suburban neighborhoods, is easy. Look to the ones offering the solutions, and you'll find the ones causing and financing the problems. Remember that CIA plane that crashed and was found to have been carrying tons and tons of coc aine? Oh wow big surprise.

I didn't expect to talk to people in the ghetto here. I know barely anyone on here even knows what a ghetto is like... and this is why it's funny that anyone pretends to know what's good for the "poor" and unerprivelidged... and I'm not singling out black people. Everyone, no matter how pale or how dark, is capable of atrocious things, if pushed to that point psychologically.

I don't pretend to offer a strategy, other than stop blaming your fellow citizens, and start caring a little more. Don't tell me I should go get a taste of the real world... because ya know, I don't see the real world anywhere right now. I see an orchestrated illusion set up to make everyone fear each other and consume more and think less. I see a bunch of bull#, and I wish everyone would just stop. It's making ME, a pacifist, wanna just go ahead and press the big red Destruct button on humanity... because people don't think or care at all anymore. They are completely consumed.

I don't know... I often find myself stuck pondering this whole mess, trying to find a solution that is peaceful and caring and loving and fair... but the simple fact is... whatever is coming, we probably deserve. All of us, not just the criminals. Everyone allowed this to happen. They allowed the manipulation... they allowed the greed to take over... they allowed a large portion of their fellow man to become nothing more than the nation/world's garbage can...

I don't know. While we're talking about psychology, how could expect to stay sane in an insane world? Why do we push this upon everyone?

Big changes need to be happen soon, and the sad part is that when the world does change for the better, it might just decide to scratch us off. If we can't get along with everything and just BE, we're going to have to be removed.

Originally posted by dunwichwitch I knew a guy who killed somebody, and he was such a nice guy, you'd never know it. He had remorse, but he was strung out on drugs and was in a violent gang at the time, and he was driven to do some very bad things. Is he forever damned or evil? I don't think so. Not if I could befriend him and like him for who he was inside.

Yeah, you liked him because he was being pleasant and social and he wasn't KILLING ONE OF YOUR FAMILY MEMBERS. Sheesh. Do you think that the "really evil people" are incapable of being normal and likeable? Of course they are! Sheesh they are even capable of doing nice things on occasion! But when they are bad they are REALLY bad.

reply to post by Sonya610


I never said blame anybody. I said think. I definitely didn't say let's blame the middle class. What I'm saying is that what works for one person shouldn't be what works for everyone. This is essentially what we have. A "one choice" society, with the illusion being that you can be and do anything, as long as you work hard enough. Who do we owe to make our lives what we want? Why is it that getting a good education costs thousands of dollars, and yet we still have people with college degrees working at Arby's to support their families. Why are we working ourselves practically to death just to get by? On top of that, most of us don't have to worry about drug lords and their mind controlled gangs prowling our streets, randomly killing and terrorizing our suburban paradises (more like prisons without bars)... but either way, the premisise is still the same.

We're blaming people that are seeing the worst things imaginable in this country daily "Why can't they just get with the program?"

Why should they? The program created their slums!

I'm not blaming anyone. We're just as trapped as them, although in a seemingly different way... but it all boils down to one thing... the only thing. "This is Your God" money. Money didn't give us life. Money is by no means a means to an end. It is a psychological mind control weapon that is millenia old, and we keep falling for it.

Why? We are taught to fear death. To fear our finite existence so much that we must covet as much as we can before we cease to be. This is supposed to give our lives meaning... yet the very act of coveting in a finite and otherwise meaningless existence in itself becomes meaningless. The logic of the whole thing makes no sense, yet somehow logic always fails us because we'd rather filter it through belief systems. The belief that we are all going to die and we are nothing but random accidents.... kind of defeats the whole purpose of law, order, goodwill towards men.... so in essence, if this were true, the logical outcome of that would be mass chaos, and we would most likely all slaughter ourselves out of existence in a way that benefits absolutely no one. Instead... we have ordered chaos.... and we will all slaughter ourselves, yet SOMEONE (I'll leave it up to you to decide who these someones/somethings are) is benefitting from all of our orchestrated chaos.

Someone is benefitting from these "poor" and these "criminals" and these "derelicts" and our reaction to them. Civilization is only as civil as the group who owns it. Problem is... we don't own civilization. Some shadowy group of beings, be them human (ha!) or not, owns it...built it.... influenced its changes.... to the point where we are at now... And on the Eve of our destruction as a race and as a planet, many of us including those leaders we think we see as our figureheads seem to be just completely oblivious to the whole thing...

Somebody gave a monkey a book and taught him how to read it, and now the whole group of monkeys thinks they know what the Hell is going on just because another monkey taught them how to read, as well.

Even though the streets are bumpy, lights burned out
Dope fiends die with a pipe in their mouths
Old school buddies not doing it right
Every day it's the same
And it's the same every night
I wouldn't shoot you bro but I'd shoot that fool
If he played me close and tried to test my cool
Every day I wonder just how I'll die
Only thing I know is how to survive
There's only one rule in the real world
And that's to take care of you, only you and yours
Keep dealing with the hard times day after day
Might deal me some dope but then crime don't pay
Black man tried to break into my house again
Thought he got off early doing time in the pen
Even though my brothers do me just like that
I get a lot of love so I'm giving it back to the...

So just peep the game and don't call it crap
Cause to me, life is one hard rap
Even though my sister smoked crack coc aine
She was nine months pregnant, ain't nothing changed
600 million on a footbal team
And her baby dies just like a dope fiend
The story I tell is so incomplete
Five kids in the house and no food to eat
Don't look at me and don't ask me why
Mama's next door getting high
Even though she's got five mouths to feed
She's rather spend her money on a H-I-T
I always tell the truth about things like this
I wonder if the mayor overlooked that list
Instead of adding to the task force send some help
Waiting on him I'd better help myself
Housing Authority and the O.P.D.
All these guns just to handle me in the...

Even though they put us down and call us animals
We make real big banks and buy brand new clothes
Drive fancy cars, make love to stars
Never really saying just who we are
We use alias names like TOO $HORT
Sell you stuff you might kill for
Young kids grow up and that's all they know
Didn't teach him in school now he's slangin dope
Only thing he knows is how to survive
But will he kill another brother before he dies?
In the ghetto, you keep one eye open
All day long, just hoping and hoping
You can pay your bills and not drink too much
Then the problems of life you'll be throwing up
Like me, but you don't see
Ten years from now, where will you be?

So much game in a Too $hort rap
Blacks can't be white and whites can't be black
Why you wanna act like someone else?
All you gotta do is just be yourself
We're all the same color underneath
Short Dog's in the house you'd better listen to me
Never be ashamed of what you are
Proud to be black stand tall at heart
Even though some people give you no respect
Be intelligent, when you put em in check
Cause when you're ignorant, you get treated that way
And when they throw you in jail you got nothing to say
So if you don't listen it's not my fault
I'll be getting paid while you'll be paying the cost
Sitting in the jailhouse running your mouth
While me and my peoples try to get out

The Ghetto - Too Short

reply to post by Sonya610


You're assuming that people should not be forgiven for committing heinous acts of violence. Do you know exactly why a man murders another man...woman...person...whoever? Do you know exactly what's going on in a serial killer's mind? Do you know what drives them to commit semseless acts like random killing?
No. You don't. We believe they are just "sick and twisted" and deserve some horrible punishment... yet what has that ever solved? Has it made less of these senseless killers? Or have we been faced with more? Does doing unto another what they have done to you show a history of being an effective cure for violence and hate and fear?

reply to post by Sonya610


I have lived all over including "the combat zone" in Boston and another inner city area complete with the dead guy shot in the parking lot, rapes etc. My Dad was born in Harlem, yet my widowed Grandma put five children through college without a nickel paid by Uncle Sam.

Poverty is a mindset from what I could see. You can not help unless you break the mindset.

One of the woman I hung with was from Kenya. She was working here in the USA to put her brother through school. Each child in the family did the same for the next youngest.They had a hospital just about manned, Doctors, nurses, pharmacists and lab techs. She thought American Blacks were spoiled rotten, had everything given to them and were still whining.

I have tried to help over a dozen people of different races, who hit hard times. EVERY SINGLE ONE repaid my kindness with theft. One even killed my animals and threaten to shoot me. They all think those who are a bit better off owe them big time. If you do not give it to them they will take it by force and hate your guts while smiling to your face.

They think of kindhearted middle class whites as marks to be stripped and the support system as something to be milked.

reply to post by JimBeam


Ahhh very nice. I respect rap lyrics. They are clever as heck sometimes!

Now... the message I got from that rap was that basically you just gotta look out for yourself and your loved ones and be a proud individual and just try to make it through.

The only things I have wrong with a motto like that is... well this is hard to explain without bringing spirituality into the picture... but "we're all the same color underneath" kind of sums it up. I don't even like using the word spirituality because that brings all these connotations and religious imagery into people's heads... but the concept I'm trying to get at is... let's just consider a hypothetical scenario:

Say that YOU are God.... and everything and everyone around you is you experiencing yourself from many different angles. How do you want to be treated? You'd want to be treated with kindness, compassion, love, understanding, and all that.... Well, even if that isn't true... it still makes you think... if you box yourself in to just looking out for yourself out of fear of being hurt....first of all, then you're behaving out of a semi-irrational fear viewing people as mostly out to hurt you, and also... you are ignoring a big portion of your experience and closing yourself off to possibly learning something. The thing about learning lessons is that, unfortunately they aren't always pleasant to learn. But once you learn from them, you have benefitted, haven't you?

So sonya to answer your question... bad things avoided are lessons unfinished.

This is just my opinion. I could be wrong. Y'all could be right.
I guess this is why we are here to discuss things....

Things are definitely puzzling about society, you must admit. It's like we're all walking around making decisions and having opinions about what's happening around us, yet once we start really sitting down and picking at it all.... it's disturbing because you'll hopefully come to realize that we have no clear explanation for anything we do. We can pretend and cling to theories our authorities on subjects present us with, but obviously they haven't come up with a universally workable solution... So why put our faith in them. That's like a mutated form of Oligarchy. Essentially, that's what we have. Some mutated oligarchy.