Two Russian bombers land in Venezuela-agencies

Authors such as the Holocaust expert David Cesarani have argued that the government and policies of the United States of America against certain indigenous peoples constituted genocide. David Cesarani states that "in terms of the sheer numbers killed, the Native American Genocide exceeds that of the Holocaust". He quotes David E. Stannard, author of American Holocaust,who speaks of the "genocidal and racist horrors against the indigenous peoples that have been and are being perpetrated by United States and many other nations in the West..

links of US genocide in Iraq :

deoxy.org...

The Genocide Convention defines two basic levels of guilt: the direct commission of genocide and complicity to commit genocide.

Complicity in genocide must embody:

1. Intentional participation;
2. Knowledge of the genocidal intent of the perpetrators;
3. Organizing, planning, supplying arms, training intelligence, or direct military support.

One example of direct American genocide, Iraq, has suffered massive destruction to its infrastructure, the economy and human life, particularly since the imposition of American sanctions in 1990 and the bombing in 1991. UN Resolution 661 mandated sanctions against Iraq originally to force Iraq to withdraw from Kuwait. The resolution was worded in such a way as to grant the United States a veto over which products could be traded with Iraq. The American government exploited that veto to severely punish the people of Iraq in the hope that they would overthrow Saddam Hussein themselves.

According to a 1993 UNICEF study, “What has become increasingly clear is that no significant movement toward food security can be achieved so long as the embargo remains in place.” [3]

Declassified documents divulge the fact that the Americans were aware of and responsible for a humanitarian crisis caused by the sanctions. A Defense Intelligence Agency report on January 18, 1991 concludes that:

Failing to secure supplies [for Iraq] will result in a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population. This could lead to increased incidences; if not epidemics of disease…Current public health problems are attributable to the reduction of normal preventative medicine, waste disposal, water purification and distribution electricity, and the decreased ability to control disease outbreaks.[4]

On January 15, 1991, B-52s were flying towards their targets in Iraq and cruise missiles were fired from ships in the Indian Ocean. Iraqi defences were incapable of offering any resistance.

Restricting the bombing to only military targets was not part of the U.S. war plan whereas targets included hospitals, electric utilities, schools, factories, water treatment plants, irrigation systems, food storage facilities and community health centres. Over 200,000 people died, the majority of whom were civilians.

In 2003, George Bush Junior inflicted further atrocities on the devastated people of Iraq and on a country virtually bombed back into pre-industrial times by another so-called war. As of today, Iraq has suffered a further one million deaths and four million refugees.
www.counterpunch.org...

Alternatively, the notion of “Shock and Awe”
— 800 missiles raining down on Baghdad in
the first 48 hours of a bombing campaign that
lasted 300 hours
one Pentagon strategist boasted to CBS News,
“There will not be a safe place in Baghdad.”11
This is also prime facie evidence of the mens
rea of specific intent.

On whether the distinction between civilian
and military targets has been respected and
upheld, with credible studies reporting as
many as 1,000,000 Iraqi civilian deaths since
2003 alone, a number that is increasing
rapidly, US use of force would appear clearly
indiscriminate.12 Alternatively, the use of
depleted uranium (DU) ordnance — about
2,000 tons to date since 2003, around 10 times
what was used in the 1991 Gulf War —
illustrates unequivocally indiscriminate and
disproportionate force in that DU, which is
airborne and waterborne, has a half-life of 4.7
billion years, causing sterility, cancer,
leukaemia and birth defects, as well as
rendering swathes of Iraqi land permanently
lethal and unusable. Indeed, the United States
has not only attacked living Iraqis, but also the
unborn generations of Iraq.
www.brusselstribunal.org...

Ongoing attempts to impose a military solution
on Iraq should be seen in this light, while the
13-year US-imposed UN sanctions regime
led to the “excess deaths” of 1,500,000 Iraqis
is a clear example of “patterns of given
consequences” where foreseeability was
present and the policy continued, suggesting at
the least oblique intention (which is sufficient
for conviction on genocide in being a category
of specific intent), but more plausibly — given
constant US bullying in the UN to maintain the
clearly destructive sanctions regime —
purposive intent.

www.brusselstribunal.org...

reply to post by manson_322



Great job use a terrorist website for the PLO AS A RELIABLE SOURCE. Go peddle this propaganda somewhere else.

Originally posted by rjmelter
Manson its a good thing you did quoting all of those ancient stories. However The generation being raised in America more then ever agrees with your "stance"... not you. America was founded on blood. " Kill for your religion!" America was founded to escape religious persecution. Which does make it wrong... But. Anyone clinging to religion is a fraud.

I however think you should also label these south american countries terrorists also because the spaniards when they came and killed all the.. INDIANS of SOUTH AMERICA! They were in high numbers also. I think perhaps you should label all countries except CHILLE Terrorists (chille has remains of indian cultures). Stop being so racist and bias against the U.S. You have to persecute EVERYONE for their dirty deeds. That includes India Iran Iraq Syria Austrailia. The only people who are decently innocent of genocide are Africans... but that will have to be retracted for the current ongoings of Africa.

DONT FORGET RUSSIA.

As im sure you are well aware Russia, and Germany exterminated Millions upon Millions of Jews... and others. I bet you might try to justify that also with Jews are anti my religon. So whatever. Every country in this world who has set up BORDERS is GUILTY of crime of GENOCIDE. LAND IS NOT OURS TO CLAIM. We are a part of the Earth, we are its care takers.

It is reponses like yours why we people inhabiting Earth are at WAR. SHERE IGNORANCE.

Oh and let me Recap...

There are very few countries on this planet that should not be called Terrorist Countries or States. We have all taken what is not ours in order to control what we lust for.

Welcome to Earth School.

[edit on 11-9-2008 by rjmelter]

Manson...

So if you kill more than the other you are not quilty? I also have to seriously disagree. There is no way there were that many Indians IN AMERICA, while the crime did happen its probably rather same to the amount that died in World War 1 or World War 2 ... Vietname ya know... More Wars that arent RIGHT.

How about backing off of the WHOS WORSE THEN WHO routine and just accept that Humanity is a horrible invention. Trying to be humane knows not of the truth. Humans cannot be humane. We have to control the populations... and the greed affects larger groups like Russia, China, the U.S. I mean seriously... Russia and China are drilling off of the coast of Alaska in the middle of the Ocean for Oil. The U.S. Surprisingly isn't drilling for OIL out there but will probably start. These countries are trying to support their Counrtries who have grown WAY TO EXCESSIVELY Large that they cannot control them as effectively anymore.

So while your taking I hate only the U.S. You should look into the past of other people and realize you shouldn't just hate 1/4 th of the Worlds Hemisphere... you should hate the whole.

Humanity is Disgusting... it really is. Look in the mirror. Hate is a Horrible Thing though... Learn to Love the whole instead of hate and you will see your true calling.


[edit on 11-9-2008 by rjmelter]

Whoever thinks two bombers are a non-issue especially if they are able to carry missiles with payloads, should check their facts again.
We are in 2008, not in 1960's this means that the "philosophy" of a "payload" might have changed significantly.
How much weight needs a typical payload carrier has to have to deliver a cone with bacteriological or a chemical weapon?
With improved efficiency of bacteriological or chemical agents comes reduced weight, with reduced weight comes improved efficiency of the carrier.
Stealth chemical bacteriological missile.

Of course nobody will be going crazy enough to use this, but anyone would develop it if it could act as an powerful countermeasure, just in case. What west would be capable of knowing about secret weapons back in the not too distant USSR era, for facilities that could have been anywhere in a country with the largest territory on earth?

Very little.

Things that we know for certain are that they have been specializing in missiles and in bacteriological/chemical weapons. Plus they do not think like NATO does. They have completely different strategies so no one from within NATO should assume that they know who they are fighting with. I wouldn't.

Red Death

You need only one plane and a backup in case the first one fails really.
This is not the scariest option IMO. The scariest option would be if a US president decides for a false flag attack and blames the "Reds". It would be very probable considering recent political history..

Either ways we are all screwed.

[edit on 11-9-2008 by spacebot]

Originally posted by manson_322
good, finally, nukes are arriving in venezuala , these will ensure that the genocidal US empire , will be kept at bay ....

Do you know what would work better? Here's my plan, I call it the nuclear exchange program. All the countries with nukes get to have a cultural exchange, we let all the countries with nukes place 10 nukes anywhere in the USA they want. We maintain them, and provide shelter for these nukes so they stay safe. Similarly, America and all the other countries get to place 10 nukes in each of the other countries. So all in all, each country would have around 100 nukes spread throughout the county.

At any time where things get out of hand between 2 countries, the country that gets angry can set off their nukes 1 through 10, think of it as a sort of voting process. If a country does something thats a minor annoyance, blow up the nuke in washington D.C for example, it should effectively communicate a point. Other countries might agree and join in on the voting process, basically kicking your country off the island. It's really a fair process and it should make everything run a lot smoother for everyone, sending nukes through the air can be so tedious and uncertain. It's also more humane this way because the population of a city won't have to know of their untimely demise.

[edit on 11-9-2008 by ghaleon12]

reply to post by thefreepatriot


Sweet!!! Maybe they have government imported drugs too!

reply to post by manson_322



I specified "contemporary examples" of genocide just to avoid this native indian issue. I'm part American Indian, so I don't especially like having to defend the US on this issue. It was definitely a mistake. But it was really just a law of the times, primitive that it may be. Tribes fought for territory also. They didn't own the land from the day it was created. Let's just say that the "survival of the fittest" was the rule of law practiced by most peoples living in the world up to that time. Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Christians, etc. To somehow imply that only American's used war as a means of survival or expansion is hypocritical.

But back to our modern era. The wars that the US fought during the last 100 years were against dictators who had aggressively attempted to invade and annex territory for various global ambitions. Marxism-Leninism and Nazism had their built-in ideologies of genocide. Exterminating people was part of the process of "balancing" their books. Saddam (being inspired by Hitler, as are all factions of the Islamist terrorist network) was all about Pan-Arabism with himself being the its leader. He also used extermination as a process of "balancing" the books. (staying in power) The US defended people of other lands against these psychopathic tyrants -- all within the context of wars that had been initiated by these geopolitical ideologists.

Is the US perfect? No. But is it the only thing that is keeping the world from falling into global chaos. (Because of its checks and balances.) Imagine if India implemented it's standard of social "harmony" on a global scale. It has the unfairness of the caste system, extreme poverty, Muslim insurgents, Pakistan and Kashmir conflicts, riots between Hindu-Christian or Hindu-Muslim. Or let's examine the corruption level hidden within its leadership and people. Should we blame that on the US too?

The world is sick. But to point a finger at the US and imply that it is the cause of all evils in the world is the same as Hitler pointing a finger at the Jews and blaming them for all Germany's problems. It's deceptive, untrue and attempts to take the focus off where those four other fingers are pointing.

Seriously. If you really desire to see fairness in the world, creating scapegoats to defend one's own corruption isn't the way to do it. I suggest we start by examining how much of that evil we see in the world actually exists right here within each of us at this moment -- and start removing it. That's the only way we'll ever begin to fix the problem.

reply to post by manson_322


IF THIS IS WAY YOU FEEL ABOUT THE COUNTRY I DEFEND , MAYBE IT'S TIME YOU MOVE TO SOUTH AMERICA YOU NO GOOD TRADER

Well put had to give you a star for that one a world with out the United states would have all ready destroyed itself and we wouldnt have this cool internet stuff either. I used to think why did the us have to play policeman but after giving it some thought if the us didnt try to do right which can granted can go wrong but at leat we try. And that is necessary. When countries have disputes do they go to the un usually not, they usually will end up in a summit in washington.
The only way the United States can stop playing policeman is if the UN actually had the power to implement any of the mandates they put out which they dont. That is why iraq ocured the UN would say saddam stop that and saddam would look at them laugh and kick the UN out. This went on for over a decade. Its starting again with iran UN says no with no way to enforce there mandates.
The UN was a good idea but reality is that countries will never work together each has there own interests which is why i all ways laugh when people try to say the new world order is taking over. Way too many countries with diffrent beliefs and opinions. The only way the world would ever unite if we had some threat that was going to destroy the planet and even that is iffy.

reply to post by dragonridr


Thanks for the star.

The United Nations? Diplomacy, sanctions, conferences? What does it achieve? Unfortunately it's only wars that solve geopolitical differences. If the US didn't police the world, who would do it? The Russian mafia?

reply to post by WestPoint23



I agree check this out

Originally posted by Matrix1111
reply to post by manson_322

 

But back to our modern era. The wars that the US fought during the last 100 years were against dictators who had aggressively attempted to invade and annex territory for various global ambitions. Marxism-Leninism and Nazism had their built-in ideologies of genocide. Exterminating people was part of the process of "balancing" their books. Saddam (being inspired by Hitler, as are all factions of the Islamist terrorist network) was all about Pan-Arabism with himself being the its leader. He also used extermination as a process of "balancing" the books. (staying in power) The US defended people of other lands against these psychopathic tyrants -- all within the context of wars that had been initiated by these geopolitical ideologists.

The wars that the US fought during the last 100 years were against dictators who had aggressively attempted to invade and annex territory for various global ambitions.

US fought against dictators ????

THIS IS THE BIGGEST LOAD OF BS I EVER READ...

YOU MURDERED A 2 MILLION PEOPLE IN IRAQ FOR OIL
CREATED ISLAMIC TERROR THAT HAS LED TO DEATHS OF MILLIONS

IMPOVERISHED MILLIONS THROUGH EXPOLITATION GENOCIDE AND STARVATION

[B]fact is that most americans are arrogant , and use propanganda to hide their war crimes against humanity[/B]

have you ever seen journalist John Pilger 's documentary "War on democracy , do see it and , you wil realise how USA has murdered millions in latin America and across the world
the entire documentary

www.youtube.com...
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reply to post by manson_322


The US has killed 2 million people in Iraq?!?! That my friend, is "BS"! When a terrorist straps a bomb to a disabled kid and orders him to detonate it in a market place of innocents, is that blood on US soldiers hands? I think not. You can argue that it wouldn't happen if the US wasn't there, but, what came first the chick or the egg? I dare to even hazard a guess at the number of lives that have been lost in the name of extremist jihad!!!

Also, how many lives do the US government and citizens save each year through humanitarian and health aid? Hundreds of Billions of dollars are spent around the world providing relief to many impoverished nations and HIV assistance in Africa for example, which subsequently save millions of lives. You conveniently overlooked that i notice!

[edit on 12-9-2008 by theblunttruth]

reply to post by theblunttruth

The US has killed 2 million people in Iraq?!?! That my friend, is "BS"! When a terrorist straps a bomb to a disabled kid and orders him to detonate it in a market place of innocents, is that blood on US soldiers hands? I think not. You can argue that it wouldn't happen if the US wasn't there, but, what came first the chick or the egg? I dare to even hazard a guess at the number of lives that have been lost in the name of extremist jihad!!!

so you drink the BS kool aid of Fox news ,US sanctions from 1992-2003 were responsible for death of 1.2 million children under 5, totla deaths due to sanctions , 1.7 million
read this:

(e) SANCTIONS WAR EXCESS DEATHS (1990-2003). Excess deaths in Iraq during the 1990-2003 Sanctions War totalled 1.7 million (from UN Population Division data: esa.un.org... ).

(f) SANCTIONS WAR UNDER-5 INFANT DEATHS (1990-2003). The Iraqi under-5 infant deaths (1990-2003) totalled 1.2 million as determined from UN Population Division data (see: esa.un.org... ). 90% of these under-5 infant deaths were avoidable.
www.countercurrents.org...

(b) IRAQI REFUGEES. The number of Iraqi refugees now total 3.7 million - 2.0 million outside Iraq and 1.7 million inside Iraq – and UNHCR predicts that there will be up to 2.3 million internally displaced people within Iraq by the end of this year. (see: www.guardian.co.uk... ).

(c) POST-INVASION IRAQI EXCESS DEATHS. In October 2006 an estimate of “655,000 post-invasion excess deaths in Occupied Iraq as of July 2006” came from a top medical epidemiology research team in America's (and the World's) top Public Health Department (the Bloomberg School of Public Health) at a top US university (Johns Hopkins) and was published peer-reviewed in a top medical journal (The Lancet) and endorsed by 27 top Australian medical experts in the area (see: MWC News: mwcnews.net... ; mwcnews.net... and mwcnews.net... ).

The carnage in Iraq constitutes a continuing US-driven Iraqi Genocide (Genocide as clearly defined by Article II subsections (a) -(d) of the Internationally-agreed UN Genocide Convention: www.preventgenocide.org... ) and an Iraqi Holocaust in comparison with the World War 2 Jewish Holocaust (5-6 million victims and the man-made World War 2 Bengali Holocaust in British-occupied India (4 million victims). Most of the victims have been Women and Children and the carnage is largely due to gross, war criminal Occupier violation of the Geneva Conventions which demand that Occupiers do everything within their power to keep their Conquered Subjects ALIVE (see Articles 55 and 56 in particular of the Geneva Conventions relating to civilians: www.unhchr.ch... ).

--------------

The Iraqi under-5 infant deaths (1990-2007) now total 1.8 million, 90% having been avoidable and due to Western war crimes. Total Iraqi excess deaths (1990-2007) total 2.7 million. The post-invasion excess deaths in Occupied Afghanistan now total 2.2 million and Afghan refugees total about 3.7 million (see: mwcnews.net... ). \

www.countercurrents.org...

The cumulative effects of the more than nine-year sanctions on the Iraqi people have been devastating. Nine years of economic, financial and intellectual isolation have caused enormous human suffering especially among the young, women, and the elderly. It has resulted in death and disease, broken lives, lost skills, violent crimes, prostitution, divorce, family desertion, and rampant corruption which has undermined the entire social and moral fabric of Iraqi society. The collapse of educational institutions have led to levels of illiteracy that are harming an entire generation of children.

The six-week long Gulf War in 1991 killed some 250,000 people and devastated all facilities essential to civilian life and economic productivity throughout Iraq. Electricity generating plants, water treatment facilities, sewage treatment plants, communication systems and transportation networks, hospitals, schools and museums, and agricultural fields were all systematically destroyed. Iraq was bombed back to the 'Stone Age'.

Because of the sanctions, Iraq has not been able to repair or replace these facilities which have a direct impact on the health and well being of its 22 million citizens. More than 1.5 million people have perished in the last nine and half years as a direct result of the sanctions.
www.phmovement.org...

1.8 million babies dead due to US sanctions and then invasion .....

Also, how many lives do the US government and citizens save each year through humanitarian and health aid? Hundreds of Billions of dollars are spent around the world providing relief to many impoverished nations and HIV assistance in Africa for example, which subsequently save millions of lives. You conveniently overlooked that i notice!

hundreds of billions of dollars annually ??? may i see the source for it

[edit on 12-9-2008 by manson_322]

reply to post by manson_322


Here is just one country I bet it will get you steaming too

www.washington-report.org...

Dont be naive... we are in this together. We found the AntiChrists! Now the world will go to war! Duh.

reply to post by thefreepatriot


Sorry I posted same thing today..not sure why didn't show on search.

If I were President I'd give Russia 12 hrs to get those bombers outta there or they will be taken out. Same as Kennedy years ago. I'm sure satellites noted if anything was off loaded. 12 hrs and they are toast

These planes are going nowhere

If you have felt the earth move within yourself and kept in touch with the news like we here on ATS are infamous for doing... You will feel something big is about to happen. War is imminate... The Elite will lose nothing, we will lose everything.

Originally posted by BlackProjects
If I were President I'd give Russia 12 hrs to get those bombers outta there or they will be taken out. Same as Kennedy years ago. I'm sure satellites noted if anything was off loaded. 12 hrs and they are toast

Another arrogant, elitist, statement by people who think we Americans have the God given right to control... "EVERY GRAIN OF SAND ON THE PLANET."

Here we have a country thousands of miles from America, IN ANOTHER HEMISPHERE... and you wanna control how many times South America wipes their ass

"12 hours til we turn into toasting Hitleresque slave masters... 3...2...1... Grab your cammo'd bed sheets, guns and mosquito repellent... Houston there's a problem"

Whats' next in our smorgasbord of world control...?? "Blow China off the map because a Chinese merchant ship was seen off loading chop sticks in Russian airspace"

With justification like yours, I understand why American indians never had a chance.



[edit on 12-9-2008 by Level X]

reply to post by BlackProjects


go ahead , threaten russia ,and Russia will vaporise you and your genocidal babykiller nation in half an hour ...