Scientific experiements or spiritual awakenings?

In regards to the experiment that is happening right now CERN (Particle accelerator). Do we need Scientific "Proof" and experienments to find out the origins of our planet and the Universe or can we achieve this by spiritual means? How do we fully understand our ansesters initiations and meditations to higher relms and the understanding that they perhaps achieved and how do we learn this and share this knowledge with eachother reaching a greater depth of knowledge though spiritual means?

Or do we need physical proof that science gives us through the use of external technology.

What way do you think we will get the answers to the meaning of our lives and the beginnings of the universe?

I would be interested in peoples views of what they believe what humanity should do.

Learn Humility.

Learn Compassion.

Meditate.

Analyze your dreams.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


and then?

By meditating and by going within, you understand the meaning of the universe? you create a calmer mind and see within? by learning compassion you create an exsistance that is harmonies and calm. bring the polarities of the world so that they are balanced?

I keep getting told to meditate which i do all the time and im still waiting for that profound experience.. is there one? or an i having it already? and some say dont wait.. you just have to be.. your higher self will tell you when you are ready.. your guides will be there..are there helping you. Yet all these things are beyond the material worlds ability to "see" physically or is it when you actually believe you start to "see"?

People are meant to be waking up at the moment but it seems that through out history that this has always been the case.

Science is taking over as usual and the external methods of communication and technology are advancing and maybe taking over our abilities to do all these things by going with, yet I am told that the scientists still do not understand how spiritual aspects of how our ansesters understood life.

If you can show me one thing that is even vaguely "spiritual" and not just the product of an unbalanced or conditioned mind, I'll give you EVERYTHING I own.

There is no such thing as "spirituality".

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
If you can show me one thing that is even vaguely "spiritual" and not just the product of an unbalanced or conditioned mind, I'll give you EVERYTHING I own.

If in your life you have never experienced anything even vaguely spiritual, then you don't have anything to give me

Originally posted by misuneko

and then?

Kill your ego. And shape yourSelf into a new person. Become a conduit that spiritual experience would want to be a part of, and it will find you, and show you where to go from there.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
If you can show me one thing that is even vaguely "spiritual" and not just the product of an unbalanced or conditioned mind, I'll give you EVERYTHING I own.

If in your life you have never experienced anything even vaguely spiritual, then you don't have anything to give me

If you think you have experienced anything even vaguely spiritual, you are mistaken. It's all in your head.

reply to post by C.C.Benjamin


Yes I experience it in my head too.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


And that's the only place it is, I'm afraid.

There is no spirtuality, and you can't provide a single piece of non-anecdotal evidence to corroborate it.

Prove me wrong.

reply to post by C.C.Benjamin


I'm confused?

Why do you need me to prove what you already absolutely know? That doesn't make sense.

YOu see this is my point!!!

Look at how you to are now confronting each other. The scientific side says "give me proof" the spiritual side says "stop using your ego and let go and be free and spirit will find you" (or something similar)

I do on occasion let go of my own ego and experience "things" that are slightly different to normal perception although I guess I have always had these abilities (that i was given when i was born, like everyone else.) Abilites to be aware, to think, to be still, to go within. Nothing that I need should be external from myself ultimately. I am connected to source, like everyone else is. Therefore my ego knows that I am, that I am.

However, when i ask people who are spritual how to explain how to get to enlightenment and how they know they are there in a way that a human can understand or how they are progressing or how to get to that point of ultimate belief for themselves to tell others that what they do is actaully doing something in some other form be in other emotional bodies or dimensions or contacting other beings I dont seem to get an answer. I would like one... but i do get a lot of defense....

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by misuneko

and then?

Kill your ego. And shape yourSelf into a new person. Become a conduit that spiritual experience would want to be a part of, and it will find you, and show you where to go from there.

I live in a world of polarities. I live in a spiritual body and also a physical body, my exsistance is mult dimentional, and I am self aware. I understand higher self and live in harmony as much as I can with balancing both spiritual internal aspects of my life and physical external aspects of my life.

I live in a world today that has created external means for us to stop using our internal ablities to create and be. Yet I still try and find my old abilities and connect to source. Yet I find that as I am a in the 3rd dimential aspect of this universe that I should be using the physical to exsist or i would not be in this dimention experience this life which my higherself has agreed to experience just like everyone else who is exsisitng in this form today.

So what I am saying is if we live in a physical aspect of exsistance should we not use phyical means to manifest our internal ablities creating a coexisitance of duelalites between our physical and emotional bodies?

Science needs proof and matter takes time to manifest spiritual aspects of our inner selves.

The ironey may be that the proof of spirituality lies in the manifestations of our creations into physical reality which is eventually science. But as an external aspect of our spiritual exsistance...

The scientific people are saying "give me proof, or you are just talking rubbish". The "spiritualists" then say "we don't have any, but if you just 'let go' or 'meditate' you'll find 'spirituality'" to which the scientific people say "bull#, give me hard evidence rather than your namby-pampy, pie-in-the-sky fairytale crap".

Basically, your mind is a wonderful and complex thing, don't confuse the things it produces with some kind of mystic spirit world because one clearly does not exist.

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
If you can show me one thing that is even vaguely "spiritual" and not just the product of an unbalanced or conditioned mind, I'll give you EVERYTHING I own.

There is no such thing as "spirituality".

What is your definition of spirituality? I think everyone's definition is probably different. One persons definition of being spiritual would be a peaceful loving outlook on life. Now give me everything you own.

[edit on 10-9-2008 by Space_Ed]

Ah now here is a thread on a topic I am interested in! I recently made a thread on The Science Of Spirituality that all people involved here would probably learn something from reading:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

C.C.Benjamin- Science is basing your beliefs of the universe on evidence. Your mistake, as with many other scientists (me included at one point), is that you think that if something cannot be physically detected by any means or quantitatively analysed then therefore it cannot be real. A simple example of the falsehood of your outlook would be if you said: 'thoughts aren't real because they are just in your head.' Obviously that is a stupid thing to say and no doubt you'd never say it. 'Spiritual' experiences can ONLY be experienced subjectively and so are out of the realms of scientific analysis. Your mistake is to therefore conclude that these experiences are false or somehow don't count. I'll go into more detail on some of the things I know later as and when it comes up but for the time being could everyone- especially C.C.Benjamin- have a look at the thread above.


[edit on 10-9-2008 by Space_Ed]

[edit on 10-9-2008 by Space_Ed]

In response to the opening title what we need is more experiments OF spiritual awakening.

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin

And that's the only place it is, I'm afraid.

There is no spirtuality, and you can't provide a single piece of non-anecdotal evidence to corroborate it.

Prove me wrong.

By the nature of spiritual experiences there can be NO evidence that isn't anecdotal. Most of the entire history of the world is written from anecdotal accounts. But still we don't discredit all recorded hitory that isn't backed up archeologically.

reply to post by C.C.Benjamin


It's hard to believe that you've been innocent enough to post like this here. What did you expect? That people would agree with such an unelightented opinion?

What kind of proof would you accept to convince you of spirituality? Why do you have no understanding of how subjective it is? What would convince you that spirituality is very real for some people...infact, it's a major part of our lives and drive almost everyhing we do? I don't mean all the people posting here...this is not a posting gang....I mean people who have similar feelings to mine.

You say.."Clearly the mystic spirit world does not exist..."...how do you reach this conclusion? Because you havent seen it or experienced it? Because you can't measure it or photograph it? How do we quantify experiences like depression for instance...no-one would doubt that it exists....but quantify it?

Part of the deal with experience of spiritual work is that we integrate this information for ourselves....it's like learning to walk....we have to do it for ourselves....no-one else can teach us, and all individual learning curves will be different.

ATS has been kinda quiet for a day or two for me at least and I asked for a really strong thread that would catch my interest and make me work....you've just provided that for me and others a little bit, so thank you!

Personally, I long for the day when we can measure chi and spirit contact, and learn to see how it all works, instead of just knowing it does without the "how".

Cait

Cait



[edit on 10-9-2008 by caitlinfae]

I just came across this awesomeness:

www.quantumbuddhism.org...

I have always been a scientific person, but after hearing so many stories over the years I became curious why and how, certain people experienced events that seemed so incredibly significant to them.
I fasted and meditated and went through the 'prescribed rituals', and yet nothing happened.
I thought they were all nuts, but in a happy, pleasant way.
So I gave up a loooong time ago, and moved on with life.

Out of the blue, a couple of years ago, I had an NDE, and my life has totally changed.
It was the most intense experiences I have ever had in my life.
I didn't know how to quantify it.., I wasn't expecting this sort of this crap, in my scientific mind the only way I could explain it to others was I that 'I had solved pi'.
Thankfully my family was supportive and didn't have me committed...

My feelings were an overwhelming and incredible wonderful feeling of love, maybe you could discount that as a burst of '___' from the pineal gland.

I felt as though I had experienced an incredibly spiritual experience.
I have never been religious and as a trained scientist, I just don't know how else to explain it.
I suddenly became this wonderfully magnetic person, people have always liked me, but after that it was scary.
I seemed to have the healing powers (I say seemed because I believe the power of healing is within us all).
Even though I felt like I was emminating nothing but love, it was difficult for several reasons.
Life has not been easy since then, harder than ever actually, yet I feel ok about things. Well, I have to, don't I.

When I had my NDE, I felt that I was welcomed home but given a choice.
I was told I had already done what I was supposed to and I was 'home', but I could choose to return to complete another task.
I chose to return.
Thats my perception of events anyway, for what it's worth.

It is a couple of years later now, and I really don't know what to tell you.

Did I just experience the overwhelming feeling of love and connection to the universe, because of of a burst of '___' released at the moment of 'death'?

All I know is that years later the incredibly overwhelming feeling of love I felt at that moment has waned.
But in my heart I know I still have something to do.
I just know.
It isn't something I can quantify or prove to anyone else, it is just something subjective I know in my soul.
I'm not trying to prove antything to anyone, if it makes me happy to think I'm here for a reason then good for me.

I can't give you a reason for being here, only you can.

And yes, I think that answer sucks, I can't offer you proof, wish I could.
Maybe it's all subjective.
I hope you find your answer for yourself, whatever it is.