Why there are no eternal individual souls: Must Read: I challenge anyone, even the Pope.

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


Free will vs. predestination!
Individuality vs. personality!
Oneness vs. singleness!
Eternity vs. infinity!
The complex interactive labyrinth of matter and thought which enclosed oneself in the three dimensional realm that we all exist in, gives just a one gleam of the continuum of truth.
In this respect we all have to become truth before enjoying the knowledge of truth. Truth is gained in getting rid off our lies and specially the lies to our self.
Lies like malignant cells, start at an early age in the course of growing up, we are not aware of the lies as society has institutionalized them like good traditions. We take the lies in to our personal concept of spirituality which in turn clash with the absolutism of being and this occur just before we die.
We incarnate and reincarnate until the lies are all striped from the core of our being, some called this process Karma.
It takes a herculean effort to undo oneself from all the inner lies to the extent of seeing all the existence as true earthly unravel reality.
All custom have triumphed to maintained love and hate cycle that is the core of all deceit.
My eyes are just three-dimensional image which I’m not. Look the love of all humans has drawn hate from our eyes.
In my view only then, one can really grasp the roots of the universe and infinity.

Kacou.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Opinion
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

Logic
# Valid reasoning: Your paper lacks the logic to prove your thesis.
# The relationship between elements and between an element and the whole in a set of objects, individuals, principles, or events: There's a certain logic to the motion of rush-hour traffic.
# convincing forcefulness; inexorable truth or persuasiveness: the irresistible logic of the facts.

Fact(s)
- a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.

They observe a small portion of what makes the plant grow, the physical portion, cells replicating cells, with the use of chemicals and bioelectricity, if there was another side to it, which I THINK, we will both agree there is, then their logic is flawed, by dubbing suppositions based on current knowledge, as fact.

- something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
- something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.

Space travel is a vague term and some people still don't think we have gone to the moon, therefore don't believe in space travel, people who do disagree on the means to travel, combustion, ZPE, gravity manipulation, the devil is in the details.

Reality and truth are perspectives, therefore the 'logic' that is based on these is flawed, it only applies to the person thats applying it.

An opinion is not a fact. A belief is not a fact. Flawless logic is factual.

Flawless logic IS an opinion, some people may see it as logical, yet flawed, some people may not think it is logical at all. I believe it is logical to accept all possibilities, therefore, you may be right, you may be wrong, but your not right for me.

Belief
1. something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.

You believe your logic is flawless, it is a belief, you can dress it up all you want, it will be nothing more, or less.

You've all gone off track. There is only one eternity, thus no room for any others. You have still not proven this to be false, as it can not be disproved.

As mentioned in opening of the O.P., the logic is irrefutable and flawless. It is not opinion based or belief based, rather it follows a construct of valid reasoning that can not be overturned.

There is not room for two eternities because one eternity encompasses all space and time that ever has been or ever will be.

I stated 2 of my ideas on time before, they are not 2 seperate eternal entities, I considered time to be the motion of 'the all', if the all is eternal, then so is time, by my definition, 2 pieces of the same, yin/yang.

It appears that most of you have no idea what logic is or even how to use it. Logic is not found in blind faith, logic is not found in speculatory philosophy. If all A's are C and all B's are A, then all B's are definitely C. That is logic, it has nothing to do with points of view, rather it is sound and flawless reasoning achieved through induction and deduction.

You are applying your logic, to everyone else, I have said it many times now, it is subjective to peoples view of the world, I can't put it any plainer than that.

A, B, and C don't care if you think that all B's aren't C, because A, B, and C already told you that all B's are C, and regardless of whether you can figure this out or be made aware of it or not, it will always be that way.

These are not variable, we can all agree that A is A and B is B and so one, but when we apply it to life, people tend not to agree on the A's, B's and C's, let alone their interaction with each other.

Eternal knowledge is what I presented, it will NEVER be refuted, it is what I have brung, it can NEVER be destroyed, for it is the eternal one. It has always been the eternal one that we all share whether you were aware of it or not, just as the Earth always orbited the sun whether people were aware of it or not, just as the Earth is round whether it was ever doubted or not known. It doesn't matter what you think, believe or have faith in, the only thing that matters is the way things are.

It cannot be refuted as it is not proven, it is a theory and as such cannot be refuted, there is no evidence to put forward for it, or against it, there have been some interesting arguments/debates though.

The only truth is that which is not spoken? Well then tell me how I just said to myself that the Earth orbits the Sun.

Oh really, and tell me, when was the last time you actually viewed this occuring, without having to rely on the flawed systems of man, to explain things? Truth or supposition?

(lol, just to be clear, I do think the Earth orbits the sun, but I accept that I only think this, because I have been told and reasonably persuaded, but I am open to new ideas.)

If you can't find the words to explain what you need to explain then you aren't trying hard enough. The words are everything.

I teach myself in my head, I don't just use words, I use images and motions aswell, to explain these ideas, would take me ages and you still woudn't 'see' what I see. Words are extremely primitive form of communication, we are progressing, advertising and psychology are really pushing non verbal communication. We give away so much through movement/stance (body language) and conveyance of emotion, yet we still aren't entirely sure about some of it.

The next stage will be telepathy, not conversations in our heads, as many people think of, but it would be more like flashes of what I am refering to and explaining/discussing, my experience/ideas, mixed with emotions and my perceptions I have got out of my experiences, this will alow for a greater understanding each other, and we skip the confusion, that is generated by using variable concepts for definitive descriptions.

This is how I see it anyway, I'm sure you will see things differently.

EMM

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


I could not agree more with what you're saying. Since I have been born I have always thought of this, and my conclusion is the same as yours.. I, until today, can remeber clearly how I got into my mom's womb. And constantly have flashbacks of previous lives, in other kinds of environments, not necessarily on Earth. I am glad you have came forward with this explanation. Thank you!

reply to post by falucho05


Falucho, the OP is saying basically that past lives are a farce. We have no eternal soul because there is only room for one eternal.

Or so it is written here....

Spirit is consciousness based but the will of the individual depends on the experiences which alleviates one's pain, or hardships.

The overall experience would be experiencing something from all angles from the inside out, and from the introverted to the extroverted, to the in between.

If one confuses size with limitaiton then by all means the limits of consciousness stops with the individuals growth.

To be seperated from form means no individuallity, when in essence you are both you are working for a larger body then what is seen.

On this Earth would be considered a form of Heavens, but within this form, the only limitation is the awareness placed within the moment to be captured.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

Originally posted by Mozzy
Well it sounds more like Hinduism than anything else.

It is nothing you've ever seen or heard before.

That is more or less the exact message the Gita teaches.

No. It isn't, I do not look at other religions nor do I study them. The only religion that I've ever been somewhat familiar with is Christianity. This is not religion, it is existence. It's not fairy tale and feel good mental delusion, it's truth and irrefutably so. The know of this logic is flawless and will always be such because it is eternal and universal.


[edit on 9-9-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

So the only immutable truth comes from your particular slice of consciousness? Don't look now, but I think you just stepped on your theory.

reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers


To Quote Mr. ElectroMagU:

"I teach myself in my head, I don't just use words, I use images and motions as well, to explain these ideas, would take me ages and you still wouldn't 'see' what I see."

Like he said!.

In the 60s and 70s, lots of people had a temporary feel good revolution because they adopted the CONCEPT of the philosophy that "we are all one", and same goes for many new agers here... but, if you notice, many of these people don't act very ONE with each other. If they even knew what being ONE with everyone meant, nobody would be selling their new age garbage to their brothers and sisters and making a fortune off their gullibility.
It's something you have to experience to understand, or else you'll just forget about it whenever it isn't beneficial or useful to you. Because in spoken words, it is just a second hand concept. Maybe it will lead some people towards enlightenment, but a concept in spoken form is more like a fashion trend to people who say it yet don't understand what they are saying.

"He's the one who likes all our pretty songs, and he likes to sing along, but he don't know what it means."

I find the OP's logic very unsettling because if he's truly experienced eternity and oneness fully, why is he speaking so definitely? You can't speak definitely about eternity! You can't limit it with words.

I'm wrong, actually. Maybe in the OP's worldview, 24 alphabetical characters can describe everything perfectly. It must be a beautiful world where everybody knows exactly what everybody else means and no misunderstandings ever occur. If what he is saying is the only truth, then I suppose everyone in his world knows this and therefore perfect harmony and infinite love are expressed constantly.

To be honest, I'd get bored real fast if everything was perfect.

Originally posted by menguard

Spirit is consciousness based but the will of the individual depends on the experiences which alleviates one's pain, or hardships.

The overall experience would be experiencing something from all angles from the inside out, and from the introverted to the extroverted, to the in between.

Now of course your reply didn't receive a response because you weren't either attempting to mutilate my character with misplaced anger or jealousy and illogical opinion, but rather you made sense. Thank you for making sense and understanding life, mengaurd.

I am ambiversive, ambivalent and ambidextrous.

If one confuses size with limitaiton then by all means the limits of consciousness stops with the individuals growth.

Very well said. Most of the posters who are replying here are confusing the fact that there is only one eternity with a disillusioned conclusion from that fact for some reason all purpose and meaning of life become static and limited.

In general there is a question: If you wish to survive as a specie then you know what it takes because I've told you already. Responsibility. Nuclear war is irresponsible. Religious war is irresponsible. Both are acts of ignorance of love and survival.

To be separated from form means no individuality, when in essence you are both you are working for a larger body than what is seen.

Very well said. The formless is made up of forms. With the contrast of form against formless we are endowed with their definitions.

On this Earth would be considered a form of Heavens, but within this form, the only limitation is the awareness placed within the moment to be captured.

Yes, within this form we are limited as individual creatures.

I apologize if my post was abrasive. I sacrificed form for simplicity. More properly I would have said that your placing of form and function on infinity limits that which you are defining. It's the duality. What we add, the universe divides.

[edit on 14-9-2008 by TravelerintheDark]

[edit on 14-9-2008 by TravelerintheDark]

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
They observe a small portion of what makes the plant grow, the physical portion, cells replicating cells, with the use of chemicals and bioelectricity, if there was another side to it, which I THINK, we will both agree there is, then their logic is flawed, by dubbing suppositions based on current knowledge, as fact.

No, there's no other side. Actually what we observe and receive from plants is fairly solid and 100% consistent with the current state of the environment.

Space travel is a vague term and some people still don't think we have gone to the moon,

You're attempting to play semantics now because you're wrong and you're "grasping at straws" as they say to keep your nescient argument alive. I find your tactics to be rookie, petty, futile and unattractive. You're no longer even concentrating on the topic I have presented.

"Interplanetary travel, Earth orbital travel." Space travel is not a vague term, it's a figure of speech on the planet Earth that any intellect speaking the English language with half a brain would understand immediately.

Reality and truth are perspectives, therefore the 'logic' that is based on these is flawed, it only applies to the person that's applying it.

Incorrect. The logic of the eternal applies to all. It is then rendered into your equation as a perspective truthful reality that we all have in common and that we all share. As I said, whenever you're ready to throw egg in your face, go ahead. Whenever you're ready to get down and dirty with the actual topic, feel free.

There isn't room for two eternities. Remember? Let's try and focus here.

Flawless logic IS an opinion, some people may see it as logical, yet flawed, some people may not think it is logical at all. I believe it is logical to accept all possibilities, therefore, you may be right, you may be wrong, but your not right for me.

Incorrect. I posted the definitions for you. Flawless logic would then fit under fact: Something known to be true. When a concept becomes flawless it can then not be disproved, at that point it becomes a known truth which then makes it a universal fact.

No matter what planet you live on, regardless of what your language is: The concept of eternity is with out beginning and without end, expanding all space and time, everything everywhere. This is a universal fact. There is only room for one and we all share it. I hope you see where this is leading us.

Do you need the definition of flawless as well? See eternal one.

You believe your logic is flawless, it is a belief, you can dress it up all you want, it will be nothing more, or less.

Incorrect. Your clinical disorder is what we label "displacement". It is not me that believes in my logic. I have no believes. I dwelleth only in logic, knowledge and facts, that's not to say that I don't exercise my imagination.

To add: just because you continue to state something doesn't make it true. I challenge you to logically prove that there is more than one eternity. Before you take this challenge, if you do, I'd advise that you think long and hard, because if you do take it, I will not go easy on you nor will I spare you the humiliation that you now deserve.

Now, do you understand that a belief is an opinion, and an opinion is a belief that rests on grounds insufficient to provide substantial and undeniable knowledge.

As I said, when you can change the concept of eternity and morph it into having beginning and end so that you can make room for two or more, then come back and let me know, until that time I'd refer you to a dictionary and the word "eternity".. however if you are successful just be sure that you rename and redefine eternity to be only limited in time and space.

Don't you realize that you can't destroy the concept of eternity?

Time is the measurement of motion, motion is change, change is interaction. Time is 3 dimensional and is not a 4th dimension of 3 dimensions. It is the 3 dimensions interacting. It is not an individual dimension.

You are applying your logic, to everyone else.

Incorrect. You're applying your subjective opinion to universal and existential logic, that which is flawless.

It is not MY logic that there is only one eternity, that's just the way things are, just as I've been trying to tell you. It isn't MY logic that the Earth is round, that's just the way it is, for all of us.

It is eternal universal logic and knowledge shared by all of us.

These are not variable

They weren't meant to be. The eternal one is not variable. There is only one. It asks me, "who is larger than I?" I think... and I reply... "NONE." It asks me, "who is more weathered than I? Who has been around in time longer than I?" I think and I reply... "NONE." It asks me, "do I leave space for another?" I think and I reply... "NO."

"How then can you deny me?!" It asks?! "Can you not see that there is only one of me? Can you not see that what I present for you is flawless, logical, and true for all of you, yet you still deny me?! You still divide me up into sects and different names and war over me?! You argue over me when I present to you all that I am and allow you to live as me and me as you, me through you and you through me?!"

"You deny my perfection, you deny my eternal unity?"

I think and I reply... "forgive me for my ignorance, for I have been living in sin... I have NEVER known the real you."

And then the time comes... as it is here now, for the paradigm shift. And the eternal one is once again known for what it truly is. And we solve our issues, and we live in peace, together, eternally because we choose love and we choose survival, we went so far as to fight and kill for survival, for love, we have proven ourselves. The eternal one is here. It is much too late to stop it now. What has been done has been done, the knowledge that I, as this creature do possess, will be going no where. It is here to stay, and it is here to be known.

It cannot be refuted as it is not proven, it is a theory and as such cannot be refuted, there is no evidence to put forward for it, or against it, there have been some interesting arguments/debates though.

Can you not now see that I am the one? I am the one that you are waiting for, more importantly, the knowledge that you desire to bring peace to this world is what flows through the creature that I am as this Human Being. This is not theory, this is not persuasion. This is flawless logic, this is universal truth that all of Gods creatures share. Whether you are from Zeta Reticuli or the Andromeda galaxy, the eternal one unites us all.

Oh really, and tell me, when was the last time you actually viewed this occuring, without having to rely on the flawed systems of man, to explain things? Truth or supposition?

What a creative response (sarcasm). I'm glad to see that you will argue that the Earth does not revolve around the sun simply to keep your fruitless argument alive.

I don't find it funny that you can not decipher the truth from fallacy. The orbit of planets around stars is eternal knowledge. The fact that you don't accept this and only submit to it through "persuasion" as you call it, really disappoints me. At least we can agree that the Moon is in the sky, right? If you are mathematical enough, which I doubt that you are, because you can just send images through your head, who needs numbers, right? Those silly symbols!

You can go outside and take astronomical measurements and actually pinpoint the moon's orbit around the Earth. This is knowledge that is very old. Your semantics only delay the truth.

I teach myself in my head, I don't just use words, I use images and motions aswell, to explain these ideas, would take me ages and you still woudn't 'see' what I see. Words are extremely primitive form of communication, we are progressing, advertising and psychology are really pushing non verbal communication. We give away so much through movement/stance (body language) and conveyance of emotion, yet we still aren't entirely sure about some of it.

We have an outlet for this. It's called art. If you can't be eloquent enough with the words because you don't understand them nor take the time to use them properly, then paint your images that are so vivid. If you are still too lazy to do that, then you will be alone in your head walking around like a crazed lunatic telling everyone how the telepathic future is upon us. Good luck with that, it appears as if it has already ensued.

The next stage will be telepathy, not conversations in our heads, as many people think of, but it would be more like flashes of what I am refering to and explaining/discussing, my experience/ideas, mixed with emotions and my perceptions I have got out of my experiences, this will alow for a greater understanding each other, and we skip the confusion, that is generated by using variable concepts for definitive descriptions.

No, there are only variable concepts for definitive descriptions when it is chosen to be that way. If you take the time you can use definitive concepts for definitive descriptions. However, you don't like words, obviously. I'd suggest buying 10X10X10 soft alphabetical blocks, laying in them and writing poetry to them about much you love them. Your relationship with words may then improve.

Oh really? For admittedly never being right you sure make a lot of statements that definitively define our future. You sure know a lot for not knowing anything. I hope you untangle that head of yours and put your eyes on straight.

[edit on 14-9-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark
I apologize if my post was abrasive. I sacrificed form for simplicity. More properly I would have said that your placing of form and function on infinity limits that which you are defining. It's the duality. What we add, the universe divides.

It also unites.

It is not MY placing of form and function of infinity. It is the way that eternity is. It is already placed on itself. I only receive what it tells me.

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark
So the only immutable truth comes from your particular slice of consciousness? Don't look now, but I think you just stepped on your theory.

No, if you'd pay attention, if any of you'd pay attention. Maybe I need half naked girls wrestling in mud as my avatar?

You'd see that it is something that we all share. Not only have I stated this but if you'd take the time to let it sink in and ponder it, you'd also understand.

No, there's no other side. Actually what we observe and receive from plants is fairly solid and 100% consistent with the current state of the environment.

What!? I was refering to there being more than the physical, you refer to the soul numerous times, I was assuming this was to do with your eternal life force and not the underside of you shoes.

You're attempting to play semantics now because you're wrong and you're "grasping at straws" as they say to keep your nescient argument alive. I find your tactics to be rookie, petty, futile and unattractive. You're no longer even concentrating on the topic I have presented.

No, I was merely stating that you used this as a definition of fact, and that some people believe we haven't gone out of our atmosphere yet, therefore, to them, this is not a fact.

Incorrect. The logic of the eternal applies to all. It is then rendered into your equation as a perspective truthful reality that we all have in common and that we all share. As I said, whenever you're ready to throw egg in your face, go ahead. Whenever you're ready to get down and dirty with the actual topic, feel free.

There isn't room for two eternities. Remember? Let's try and focus here.

IMO, 'perspective truthful reality' is an oxymoron and cannot be used to generalise into something 'we all share'. We all have our own 'perspective reality' yet I doubt if they were all compared, they could be considered truthful, to each other. Do you believe in this infinite universe, that yours is the only path to 'the truth'?

Incorrect. I posted the definitions for you. Flawless logic would then fit under fact: Something known to be true. When a concept becomes flawless it can then not be disproved, at that point it becomes a known truth which then makes it a universal fact.

You consider it flawless, many here disagree with you, it is your opinion. So let's see, by your 'flawless logic', (definition above) anything that can't be disproven, then becomes a known truth? and then a universal fact? ...OK...

ET craft theory for UFO's hasn't been disproved, is that a universal truth? nor has the ancient astronaught theory, by your logic, these are universal truths, your flawless logic...

No matter what planet you live on, regardless of what your language is: The concept of eternity is with out beginning and without end, expanding all space and time, everything everywhere. This is a universal fact. There is only room for one and we all share it. I hope you see where this is leading us.

One eternity, got it...so, was I apparently meant to have disagreed with this? I'm sure I said that we all originate from the same source, connected to this very day, experiencing individuality, for a greater understanding of the universe. Where out of that did I say, multiple eternities?

Incorrect. Your clinical disorder is what we label "displacement". It is not me that believes in my logic. I have no believes. I dwelleth only in logic, knowledge and facts, that's not to say that I don't exercise my imagination.

You have no beliefs? yet you believe in logic, knowledge and fact? At some point, someone told you something, that felt right to you, for whatever reasons, be it faith, or tangible evidence, you have accepted that knowledge, believing that it is the truth and built up your view of the world based on it and now you are trying to tell everyone that your way is the only way, don't work like that. I think they have medication for narcissism now, so be sure to check it out.

Now, do you understand that a belief is an opinion, and an opinion is a belief that rests on grounds insufficient to provide substantial and undeniable knowledge.

Do you understand that your knowledge is based upon your belief in someone? be it a teacher or a friend, or a 'spiritual elder'. You base your logic and truth on your knowledge, not exactly a sturdy base for 'universally flawless logic'.

Time is the measurement of motion, motion is change, change is interaction. Time is 3 dimensional and is not a 4th dimension of 3 dimensions. It is the 3 dimensions interacting. It is not an individual dimension.

ME, 2 pages back:

Honestly, I'm still trying to understand time, sometimes I see it as a motion, this motion promotes expansion, time, is the 'canon' we place against this expansion, yet expansion from what?

You either read what I have written and debate or make arguments up to strengthen your own, I see which you are doing currently.

Incorrect. You're applying your subjective opinion to universal and existential logic, that which is flawless.

I agree that the universe's logic would be flawless, or as close as it can get to flawless, but this is just your interpretation of it, not the universe itself, the closest thing you have to flawless logic, is that the universe is eternal, yet this is only our logic, some people may not agree.

What a creative response (sarcasm). I'm glad to see that you will argue that the Earth does not revolve around the sun simply to keep your fruitless argument alive.

Sarcasm?? Really? Would never have guessed without that clearly distinct label. This is the last time I'm going to say this, READ WHAT I HAVE SAID, I do believe in the Earth rotating whilst revolving around our Sun, but I also know, that I only know this because I have been told it, and I have accepted this as being a 'truth' as it made sense to me, but I had to believe in someone when they told me this. Think about this before spouting universal knowledge and logic.

I don't find it funny that you can not decipher the truth from fallacy. The orbit of planets around stars is eternal knowledge. The fact that you don't accept this and only submit to it through "persuasion" as you call it, really disappoints me. At least we can agree that the Moon is in the sky, right? If you are mathematical enough, which I doubt that you are, because you can just send images through your head, who needs numbers, right? Those silly symbols!

We must know truths, before we can discern fallacy, as I have shown, your idea of truth is subjective to your knowledge and logic, both of which are subjective to you perception. We can agree that we SEE the moon in our skies. Lol, numbers eh? So your going to show off your maths skills now? well, think about this, if you were taught that 2+2=5, then you would apply this logic to further studies. But you would soon notice that yours isn't the same as others and possibly rectify your mistake. But if everyone is taught 2+2=5 then would you ever notice?

You can go outside and take astronomical measurements and actually pinpoint the moon's orbit around the Earth. This is knowledge that is very old. Your semantics only delay the truth.

Tell me, where did you learn all this 'eternal knowledge'? downloaded it from the Ether whilst in the whom, or where you taught, by a fellow human, with a completely different view of truth, knowledge and logic than yourself, who has in turn been taught by someone else, and so on.

At some point, you must realise that you are basing your argument on other people's work, therefore showing your belief in them.

That'll do for now.

EMM

[edit on 14-9-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

Can you not now see that I am the one? I am the one that you are waiting for, more importantly, the knowledge that you desire to bring peace to this world is what flows through the creature that I am as this Human Being. This is not theory, this is not persuasion. This is flawless logic, this is universal truth that all of Gods creatures share. Whether you are from Zeta Reticuli or the Andromeda galaxy, the eternal one unites us all.

Wow, saw this after the narcissism shout, good call by me.

We have an outlet for this. It's called art. If you can't be eloquent enough with the words because you don't understand them nor take the time to use them properly, then paint your images that are so vivid. If you are still too lazy to do that, then you will be alone in your head walking around like a crazed lunatic telling everyone how the telepathic future is upon us. Good luck with that, it appears as if it has already ensued.

Funny how ideas originally brought forward through 'art' or creativity are later adopted by science. This was meant to show that words aren't adequate enough to fully convey my perspective, this is the problem your having, your showing people a tiny fraction of the picture, claiming it's a [insert whitty object here] and expecting everyone to believe you. I try to convey my ideas through words, I also draw them, but I was saying that people may not see what I see, I'm sorry, I obviously offended you with that last statement.

No, there are only variable concepts for definitive descriptions when it is chosen to be that way. If you take the time you can use definitive concepts for definitive descriptions. However, you don't like words, obviously. I'd suggest buying 10X10X10 soft alphabetical blocks, laying in them and writing poetry to them about much you love them. Your relationship with words may then improve.

tommy 2 thumbs.

Oh really? For admittedly never being right you sure make a lot of statements that definitively define our future.

For someone with flawless logic, you sure don't read very well do you?

The next stage will be telepathy, not conversations in our heads, as many people think of, but it would be more like flashes of what I am refering to and explaining/discussing, my experience/ideas, mixed with emotions and my perceptions I have got out of my experiences, this will alow for a greater understanding each other, and we skip the confusion, that is generated by using variable concepts for definitive descriptions.

This is how I see it anyway, I'm sure you will see things differently.

( I do tend to do it by accident sometimes, and I am the first to apologise when I notice, perhaps you should do the same? )

Edit to add: Continued, ran out of room.

[edit on 14-9-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

[edit on 14-9-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

[edit on 14-9-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
What!? I was referring to there being more than the physical, you refer to the soul numerous times, I was assuming this was to do with your eternal life force and not the underside of you shoes.

I was too. I said there isn't more than the physical. The soul is the essence of existence, that which is eternity, that which is energy, that which can neither be created or destroyed, therefore never was created or destroyed, thus is eternal. No beginning and no end, within and throughout all of us. Our soul, our essence, is energy. The eternal one in all its various energetic forms.

p.s. ( I couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic! Were you being sarcastic? Can you please add parenthesized text next time. Thanks )

therefore, to them, this is not a fact.

Yes, it is still a fact. I already stated earlier: I'll paraphrase; I'm not here to argue with the semantics of people's subjective disillusionments.

The facts are the facts, I don't care what you think, believe or have faith in.
Facts = Knowledge. Belief and faith = ignorance. I don't care what the conspiracy is. I challenge you and anyone else to get your hands dirty with the actual topic. What I present is REAL and true! I am REAL, I am not fake and I am not false like so many others, even yourself. The things you say and tout around as truth disturbs me. Telepathy? C'mon man...

'Perspective truthful reality' is an oxymoron and cannot be used to generalize into something 'we all share'. We all have our own 'perspective reality' yet I doubt if they were all compared, they could be considered truthful, to each other.

Like I said, I don't care what others doubt about this nor what others fear about this. This is what it is and it is as it is, it always has been and it always will be. If we all came together and understood the concept of eternity, I 100% guarantee you that every single one of us on this planet would accept that there is only one. That's not my belief, not my faith, that is fact. It will happen, it is here and it isn't going anywhere and I will personally make sure of that.

You confuse reality with subjective delusion and faith. One's mere opinion of a fact doesn't change the reality of the universe.

Do you believe in this infinite universe, that yours is the only path to 'the truth'?

I told you that I don't have beliefs. I place no faith in anything. It isn't MINE, I am merely the creature used that conveys this knowledge, it is all of ours, and yes it is the truth.

You consider it flawless, many here disagree with you, it is your opinion.

Incorrect. Regardless of how many ever disagree, it is NEVER my opinion and it is eternally flawless, because that's the way that it is. You can call it whatever you want, but until you prove otherwise, until anyone proves otherwise, it is the truth.

So let's see, by your 'flawless logic', (definition above) anything that can't be disproven, then becomes a known truth? and then a universal fact? ...OK...

Incorrect, you are now twisting my words. Follow closely and please pay attention. A theory of E.T. craft is not flawless logic, nor can it be tested. What I am presenting you is tangible, you can think about it, you can see it, you can test its concept.

It is either your ignorance or your restless attempt and prolonging this thread through your tiring semantics. I can't figure out which one it is that makes you so irresponsible with your words. Are you reading what I'm telling you? Or are you replying as fast as you can. You can't beat me, because I'm not here to argue with you about opinions or faith. Only the truth, and the truth can not be trumped when the truth is the trump.

Where out of that did I say, multiple eternities?

No. It's up to you to show me where I said that you did. Is this your attempt at reverse psychology? If it is, it is horrible. If it isn't, I have under-estimated your naivety.

I simply came here to tell you the truth. I have done so. You continue to argue semantics and off topic non-sense. I thought you'd have enough energy to pull out your own dictionary, unfortunately I had to also do that for you, but yet you still don't seem to comprehend the definitions.

You have no beliefs? yet you believe in logic, knowledge and fact?

No. I AM logic, knowledge and fact.

At some point, someone told you something, that felt right to you, for whatever reasons, be it faith, or tangible evidence, you have accepted that knowledge, believing that it is the truth and built up your view of the world based on it and now you are trying to tell everyone that your way is the only way, don't work like that.

No one has ever told me anything. I have formulated all of this on my own. You will find it no where else. Consider yourself fortunate.

I think they have medication for narcissism now, so be sure to check it out.

Your character pop-shots and misdiagnosis will not change the logic that I have presented. You call me narcissistic because you envy me and are jealous of me. Otherwise you have no reason to do so. I have presented the truth to you, nothing less and nothing more, you have been less than accepting and less than pedantic and thorough in your studying of the eternal one that was revealed in the O.P. and the following 2 pages.

All you have shown me is that you think that either you are telepathic or that we will become telepathic and that everyone should submit to ignorance, throw away words and throw away symbols and go back to the primitive animalistic state that we evolved from. Words, symbols, when understood and used properly are the most efficient and advanced form of communication and knowledge. Knowledge can be saved and culturally passed on. It is because of knowledge and linguistics, mathematical arts and intellectual capabilities that we possess and exercise that we are such an advanced and successful specie, albeit having our hardships, but that is what I have solved.

Do you understand that your knowledge is based upon your belief in someone? be it a teacher or a friend, or a 'spiritual elder'. You base your logic and truth on your knowledge, not exactly a sturdy base for 'universally flawless logic'.

I will repeat it eternally, as it deserves to be. There is no one on this face of this planet and no one in the infinity of the universe that can ever disprove this logic, because it is eternal and flawless. There is only one eternity that we all share. It is not MY logic, it was not a "spiritual elder's" logic, it was not a friend's logic nor was it a teacher's logic. It is all of ours and I formulated it from no one but myself as this creature.

You either read what I have written and debate or make arguments up to strengthen your own, I see which you are doing currently.

Incorrect again. You are wrong so many times, why the hell do you do this to yourself? I have been on this web site long before you arrived here and I have made threads about these subjects long before you did. In fact you admit that you are still trying to understand time, I have no difficulty with time.

I agree that the universe's logic would be flawless, or as close as it can get to flawless, but this is just your interpretation of it, not the universe itself, the closest thing you have to flawless logic, is that the universe is eternal, yet this is only our logic, some people may not agree.

No, it is everyone's interpretation of eternity, from Andromeda to the Sombrero, across the universe the concept of eternity is shared. It doesn't matter what word is used, or what language it is spoken in. The concept of the eternal one is a universal truth.

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
READ WHAT I HAVE SAID

I read all of it and it is extremely disappointing and saddening. You are so lost and confused, so disconnected from reality and untrsting of others and yourself that you can't even accept that the Earth revolves around the sun as fact, rather you put faith in it.

We must know truths, before we can discern fallacy, as I have shown, your idea of truth is subjective to your knowledge and logic, both of which are subjective to you perception.

Again you are wrong. This is the truth for everyone, EVEN YOU. You CAN NOT objectively deny what I have presented, and you KNOW this. You have backed yourself into a corner now trying to defend absolutely nothing and arguing for no good reason. This is the truth, for everyone, and it will be known, it will not be unknown any longer.

We can agree that we SEE the moon in our skies. Lol, numbers eh? So your going to show off your maths skills now?

To counter your telepathy skills, yes. I would have just sent them to you telepathically, but you apparently you don't use numbers anymore, you compute equations through images. So instead of taking all of that time to either draw the pictures or send the mental images, I just chose to use numbers. Fast, effective, efficient.

well, think about this, if you were taught that 2+2=5, then you would apply this logic to further studies. But you would soon notice that yours isn't the same as others and possibly rectify your mistake. But if everyone is taught 2+2=5 then would you ever notice?

Incorrect. The concepts are always the concepts regardless of the symbols. Even without words and written language, 2 things add 2 things will always be 4 things regardless if the symbols say 2+2=5. 5 is the symbol that we use to represent 3+2. If someone else used it to represent 4, then it would still mean 4 things in their language, although to us the symbol would be recognized as a 5 in our language. It is the VALUES of the symbols that is relevant, not the symbolic appearance. Your arguments are semantically redundant and poorly constructed.

Anyone adding 2 apples to 2 apples and magically getting 5 apples should be put up for scientific experiment. I'm yet to witness instant material manifestation.

Tell me, where did you learn all this 'eternal knowledge'? downloaded it from the Ether whilst in the whom, or where you taught, by a fellow human, with a completely different view of truth, knowledge and logic than yourself, who has in turn been taught by someone else, and so on.

No, the universal concepts that we use as words and definitions are what taught me. The concepts of the universe are eternal. 2+2 has and always will be 4 regardless of whether 2 things is represented as the symbol 2 or not.

At some point, you must realise that you are basing your argument on other people's work, therefore showing your belief in them.

That'll do for now.

I have no belief in anyone or anything, nor do I base the knowledge of the eternal one on anybody else's work. It is quite simple. There is a word (more than one, bare with me) used to express the concept of never beginning and never ending, we call it eternity. Because it never ends and never begins there is no room for another, neither in space nor in time.

Once again you are incorrect. So, no, I must not realize anything that you tell me. You are not trustworthy. You make definitive empty accusations and assumptions, not inquisitions.

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
Wow, saw this after the narcissism shout, good call by me.

The creature that I am, in this Human body is what is bringing forth this knowledge, therefore I am the one that brings forth this knowledge in its entirety. No matter what you ever call me or attempt to stymie this knowledge with, it will never change the facts of the knowledge. So let's get past the childish games already and deal with the substance of the knowledge.

Funny how ideas originally brought forward through 'art' or creativity are later adopted by science.

This was meant to show that words aren't adequate enough to fully convey my perspective, this is the problem your having, your showing people a tiny fraction of the picture, claiming it's a [insert whitty object here] and expecting everyone to believe you.

No, I expect no one to believe me. What I present is the truth and will be known by all. I am not to be believed, beliefs are faith are outdated. Do not believe me, question me, and through questioning me you will find that what I present is irrefutable. Also, do not listen to this man and his incoherent ramblings, as he is clearly distraught as he repetitively makes false claim after false claim about me, my intentions and my life. He knows nothing of me, I assure you this, only that which he has so far experienced.

I try to convey my ideas through words, I also draw them, but I was saying that people may not see what I see, I'm sorry, I obviously offended you with that last statement.

Every offensive statement that you make offends me, and you've made plenty of them. You offend me every time you put forth another false claim about my intentions and the future of this of this planet, about my past and about where this knowledge comes from and who it belongs to. You also offend me everytime you make false statements about the veracity of this knowledge.

For someone with flawless logic, you sure don't read very well do you?

Do you want me to answer this? Yes, I read very well. You simply don't understand. You're lazy with your words and you're lazy with your logic, partly because you believe in telepathy.

[edit on 14-9-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Yes, it is still a fact. I already stated earlier: I'll paraphrase; I'm not here to argue with the semantics of people's subjective disillusionments.

You aren't here to discuss at all, you are here to tell people that you are right, and for them to bow down to you. I came here looking for an intellectual discussion about your idea, but instead of trading ideas, explaining ourselves, you have done nothing but lecture and talk down to me, and anyone reading this thread can see that. No wonder hardly anyone has posted, you seek validation, that no one can give.

The facts are the facts, I don't care what you think, believe or have faith in.
Facts = Knowledge. Belief and faith = ignorance. I don't care what the conspiracy is. I challenge you and anyone else to get your hands dirty with the actual topic. What I present is REAL and true! I am REAL, I am not fake and I am not false like so many others, even yourself. The things you say and tout around as truth disturbs me. Telepathy? C'mon man...

There is nothing real or tangible about this, I thought it was a good idea, I still do, but only now I see that you are so arrogant, that you didn't want discussion, you wanted praise and worship.

Like I said, I don't care what others doubt about this nor what others fear about this. This is what it is and it is as it is, it always has been and it always will be. If we all came together and understood the concept of eternity, I 100% guarantee you that every single one of us on this planet would accept that there is only one. That's not my belief, not my faith, that is fact. It will happen, it is here and it isn't going anywhere and I will personally make sure of that.

OMG, I don't doubt you concept of eternity, eternal=1 I've said it a dozen times, I was looking to discuss 'the details' and exchange ideas, but obviously, your idea is flawless!!

You confuse reality with subjective delusion and faith. One's mere opinion of a fact doesn't change the reality of the universe.

Answered this so many times.

Incorrect. Regardless of how many ever disagree, it is NEVER my opinion and it is eternally flawless, because that's the way that it is. You can call it whatever you want, but until you prove otherwise, until anyone proves otherwise, it is the truth.

There is nothing to prove, your whole idea is based on 'the universe is 'eternal' and I agree with you, but we cannot say definitively so, as we are but the an atom in a galaxy.

Incorrect, you are now twisting my words. Follow closely and please pay attention. A theory of E.T. craft is not flawless logic, nor can it be tested. What I am presenting you is tangible, you can think about it, you can see it, you can test its concept.

Erm..you:

Incorrect. I posted the definitions for you. Flawless logic would then fit under fact: Something known to be true. When a concept becomes flawless it can then not be disproved, at that point it becomes a known truth which then makes it a universal fact.

me:

You consider it flawless, many here disagree with you, it is your opinion. So let's see, by your 'flawless logic', (definition above) anything that can't be disproven, then becomes a known truth? and then a universal fact? ...OK...

ET craft theory for UFO's hasn't been disproved, is that a universal truth? nor has the ancient astronaught theory, by your logic, these are universal truths, your flawless logic...

please, elaborate on my twisting.

It is either your ignorance or your restless attempt and prolonging this thread through your tiring semantics. I can't figure out which one it is that makes you so irresponsible with your words. Are you reading what I'm telling you? Or are you replying as fast as you can. You can't beat me, because I'm not here to argue with you about opinions or faith. Only the truth, and the truth can not be trumped when the truth is the trump.

Why would I prolong 'your' thread, for nefarious reasons?

I came here to discuss, but your obviously not ready for that, I wasn't ever trying to 'beat you', I was looking for discussion, but all I found was preaching.

No. It's up to you to show me where I said that you did. Is this your attempt at reverse psychology? If it is, it is horrible. If it isn't, I have under-estimated your naivety.

Throughout the entire thread, you have been asking me to refute your 'eternal universe', when I agree with you, it is eternal, yet you keep asking me to prove you wrong, insecure much?

I simply came here to tell you the truth. I have done so. You continue to argue semantics and off topic non-sense. I thought you'd have enough energy to pull out your own dictionary, unfortunately I had to also do that for you, but yet you still don't seem to comprehend the definitions.

It isn't off topic, it was on topic, but you just keep telling me I can't understand it, or I'm afraid, or I want to stay in my ignorance, get's tiring really, when I only wanted to discuss your model. Besides, you've shown numerous times, definitions to words, yet have yet to apply them to yourself, only me, hmm?

No. I AM logic, knowledge and fact.

Wow, where to go with this zinger

No one has ever told me anything. I have formulated all of this on my own. You will find it no where else. Consider yourself fortunate.

[speechless]

Your character pop-shots and misdiagnosis will not change the logic that I have presented. You call me narcissistic because you envy me and are jealous of me. Otherwise you have no reason to do so. I have presented the truth to you, nothing less and nothing more, you have been less than accepting and less than pedantic and thorough in your studying of the eternal one that was revealed in the O.P. and the following 2 pages.

Erm, pop shots? lol, why don't you have a little back read there matey and tell me who started with the pop shots, anyone reading this thread can see you are combative and dogmatic in your beliefs.

All you have shown me is that you think that either you are telepathic or that we will become telepathic and that everyone should submit to ignorance.

Lol, well really, when did I ever say that I was telepathic, I merely stated I thought it was a more efficient form of communication than writing, and that I believe it is a future evolutionary step. Then again, that wouldn't make me seem half as silly would it? What were you saying about the character attacks?

Incorrect again. You are wrong so many times, why the hell do you do this to yourself? I have been on this web site long before you arrived here and I have made threads about these subjects long before you did. In fact you admit that you are still trying to understand time, I have no difficulty with time.

I didn't realise your intelligence steadily rose once you joined ATS, otherwise, what the hell has this got to do with anything? oh right, diversion

No, it is everyone's interpretation of eternity, from Andromeda to the Sombrero, across the universe the concept of eternity is shared. It doesn't matter what word is used, or what language it is spoken in. The concept of the eternal one is a universal truth.

Well I'll give myswlf a pat on the back then, since I'm right in a sense about the universe, but I've already told you what I think about being right.

EMM