I really miss John Lear

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
The man simply does not respect this site or its members,

That statement is an outright lie. One of the biggest problems I see here at ATS is that people make statements based only on one side of the coin...

John was actually very polite and civil considering the abuse and constant barrage of insults he got. I can see it right here in this thread by some of the comments.

I hear people stating he NEVER had any evidence, yet for the last two years I have worked with him and presented a lot of evidence... funny how it was overlooked... no one followed the links...

One case the secret astronauts... well PBS NOVA did Astrospies and interviewed those same astronauts

The Nevada Submarine base... we tracked that down and showed that it indeed does exist complete with Clark County water pollution records yet in this thread I saw it mentioned...

You cannot demand evidence and then refuse to even look at it or follow it up.

Yet that happens here daily... so much so in fact that even when I posted hints to the SECOND tether by the OTHER space program only a few people even asked...

Now before he was banned Access Denied and Weedwacker challenged John to provide his FAA Certificates... John photocopied them and posted them... for all to see... Now Weedwacker claims to also be a pilot, but when asked at the beginning never offered any proof...

When congress wrote John finally recognizing his service with the CIA flights, we posted that letter...

Johns father worked with TT Brown for the DoD in 1952 on ANTI GRAVITY I found and posted the Project Winterhaven document

John for years claimed that the Apollo 11 signals went FIRST and ONLY to Australia... look at the flack he took on that... yet we posted the Honeysuckle Creek station (along with the missing Apollo 11 tapes) Well guess what? John was absolutely spot on with that one... Honeysuckle Creek station just last year posted all the info...

Some of his 'out there' stuff came from remote viewers.... Sure go ahead and scoff at that... if it makes ya all feel good... but those RV'ers were the top of the field, hired by the CIA and your tax dollars under Project Stargate which ran from 1968 to 1995... At that point a few of the old timer military guys founded a private company called PsiTech... which is actively doing gov. contracts today , but not under the snooping eyes of congress...

These people included Ingo Swann, Joe McMoneagle, Major General Stupplebine and Ron Blackburn... Ingo and Joe still run remote viewing traing on their websites... Ron lives in Las Vegas

All of the above can be easily verified. There is more but I doubt few would care anyway... as they didn't when John was here.

Now as to John not respecting ATS.

The good old days....





John LOVED ATS... had it not been for him I would not have been here either, and Pegasus would never have been created. When we were at that Convention we really thought there was value to be had by all the work posting at ATS...

I also think Springer posting the following comments on a rival board (hell the Enemy Camp no less) was 'not nice' but that is only my opinion...

he is here to create a fan base where people will undoubtedly follow because a lot of people really are sheep.

Talk about being rude... so just because I happen to share many of John's beliefs I am a sheep? What just because I don't follow your version of reality? When I first started here much of what John said sounded totally out there to me... but I didn't resort to bashing him or his ideas, nor trolling him with personal attacks, nor hounding him in EVERY thread where he posted...

I looked into the hints and leads he left in posts and made my own research... and within a year I found amazing truths and hidden programs, and have met and talked with many of his contacts, including adding some of my own like Edgar Mitchell...

What I found was a lot of what he said had truth in it...

I respectfully say that if there are any sheep here, I know where to find them

May the man NEVER destroy the graces of ATS with his presence again. This is of course my own opinion and I post this of my own volition.

So will you apply that same reasoning to all the nasty debunkers who hound people for no other reason than to cause drama and discontent? You want a list? I have a long one...

but that's why we all love ATS so much, is its accepting nature.

Forgive me if I don't see the 'accepting nature" in your post as well as many others...


When I came to ATS it was because this was the place that discussed way out there topics like Dulce Base, Aliens... etc... Now most of the new threads I see are political... If ATS is no longer the place for finding weird ideas and being able to discuss them, then perhaps its time to move on....

There was even a 'Gray Area' set up to allow a more 'story' type post yet the debunkers still come in there and raise a stink... seems they are never satisfied...

A few days ago because of another thread started by Weedwacker... I had occasion to look at the stats... what I saw surprised me...

Total member accounts: 145,188
Members who have posted: 74,923
Percentage of members who have posted: 51 %
Number of members with 20 or fewer posts: 61,461
Number of members with 20 to 100 posts: 7,421
Number of members with 100 to 500 posts: 4,014
Number of members with 500 to 1,000 posts: 869
Number of members with 1,000 to 5,000 posts: 747
Number of members with 5,000 to 10,000 posts: 74
Number of members with more than 10,000 posts: 38

Imagine how little there would be here to discuss if a few did not provide 'entertainment' I was actually shocked by this... but it seems less then a thousnad people do all the work around here...

But they always have time to complain about the other guy


And for the "pig" Intrepid....

Alli Lear



Do I get a cookie?



PS Notice the ribbon she is wearing?

Just another memento of the good old days... would still be a good idea

Yeah okay so I'm a pig too... SUE ME



[edit on 7-9-2008 by zorgon]

mod edit: removed cross-board posting.

[edit on 9-9-2008 by chissler]

Originally posted by TrustMeIKnow
John Lear is an oppurtunist and a fraud. Screw that.

ATS is a place where people can talk about the crap that the MSM spews and potentially reach a conclusion that is bourne of rational conversation.

Lear is a liar and exploits the 'want to believe' aspect of many of us here. Screw him. I say,

"NOT WELCOME".

Wow, that was just uncalled for. Sure some of what Lear said might have been out there but all in all I found his posts and the contribution by fellow Ats'ers to be highly thought provoking and entertaining.

I can not see why people like you feel the need to take things so personal that you spew crap like this, if you really feel that way then read something else as I believe there is more then enough hatred going around with out your 2 cents childish flamage adding to it.

I miss the guy also as I always looked forward to what he was going to say, kinda like listening to Howard Stern you don't have to like the guy to want to hear whats next.

reply to post by zorgon


Zorgon, you DO NOT have to impugn me, in your post. I am sorry, but because i care not to, nor do I know how to, show my FAA licenses....does not show ME to be anything less than what I say!!!!

In fact, I NEVER challenged John as to his aviation credentials!! I only challenged as to his alleged claims. It was HE that chose to make a big production, and show photocopies of all his ratings. I certainly remember that, of course. Look, I flew with a fellow who ALSO had a number of type-ratings. He was a Check Airman ay my airline, until he had a disagreement with a certain Chief Pilot. He got thrown under a bus, so to speak.

I am not speaking about John Lear, of course, since I am PRETTY SURE HE NEVER worked for the airline I worked for.

The Check-Airman I refer to, at my airline....was thrown under a bus because he had principles, and integrity. He told me, as we were going across the Atlantic Ocean, that he 'lost' his "status" during a flight test....(simulator, every sizx months....back then, for Captains) they told him he couldn't properly conduct a 'steep turn'....what a callously stupid way to crap on somebody, in my opinion!!!

reply to post by Aleksander


Yup! Aleks, haven't seen you post.....but I have to say, our response was correct.

NO ONE should ever be called a liar.

Nice to see your response, thanks.

I really cannot understand what your problem with this man is. Sure, he has some wild claims. Are they any 'wilder' than when Galileo published his findings of the Milky Way and threw his support behind the Copernican theory that Earth was not the centre of the Universe? What did they do with him? They dragged him before the Inquisition in Rome where he was made to renounce all his beliefs and writings. And look where that theory is today.

Sounding a little familiar?

Bloody hell people, get off your high horses. The simple fact is we do not know enough about the workings of the Universe, nor do we even know enough about what goes on behind closed doors on Earth, to make any claim as to the validity of his claims.

From the post I read that linked to the page with the email correspondence it appears quite clear to me that this is all a complete joke. The argument is so petty that it sickens me to think that so much is made of it. Grow up people, there are more important things in life than arguing over a few insults being slung here or there. If I was worried about the odd insult I would have flown into a murderous rampage years ago.

Kryties.

Thank you Zorgon. I am so glad that you posted what you did. You are a true and noble friend. I see John through the same eyes as you, and was always entertained by his threads. I miss him being on ATS too.

Well, John Lear, he just is John Lear, no way of denying that, if you do, you shouldn't have read his posts/threads.

You knew what the serving mostly was when you saw his name on the board.
I would not go out and call him a Liar though, certinly i dont know what he knows.

Much of what he has posted is "way out there" for many, and in my opinion that is what ATS is all about, believable or not, that is the ATS way.
That is the way to be a CM, do we have any CM's here like this, today? Nope.
After all, this is a conspiracy site, if everything we post on here were based on hard facts.... Wè wouldn't have anything to investigate.

Many of us are here to find "a" truth, right?
The truth can be many things, believable, unbelievable, crazy and just so very very weird.

I dont know the man "John Lear" so i can not say if i miss him or not.
But do i miss the CM John Lear? Yeah i do...
Call me crazy or whatever....

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies

Do I get a cookie?

PS Notice the ribbon she is wearing?

Just another memento of the good old days... would still be a good idea

Yeah okay so I'm a pig too... SUE ME

[edit on 7-9-2008 by zorgon]

Crap, she has her fathers ears!
Oh well... i did just feel a little "piggy"
Nice ribbon, doesn't "ribbon girls" usually wear swim wear?

reply to post by zorgon


Wow! Such invective!


This is Board Biz, after all. Please calm down.

I sincerely meant it. I do miss the contributions of Captain Lear. I DID NOT ever question his creds....as a pilot. I admit, however, to questioning some of his more outrageous ideas... That is all.

I DO NOT appreciate being portrayed as a person who QUESTIONED Capt. Lears' credentials....his experience and accomplishments are a matter of record, for all to see.

However, my questions were thrown back at me, to make ME look bad.....

I really thought that my aviation expertise could be indicated by my manner of posting. That was naive on my part....I tended to forget that in the Internet forum, people will believe, or not believe, as is their wont....anything.

If I have the ability to post my licenses, I will try to figure out how.

I certainly do NOT have twenty + type ratings.....just a DC-9. B737, B757/767....it all fits on the back of one license.

Captain Lear, due to his lineage, certainly has had many, many more opportunities than I.

Some say that 'envy' is a sin....I don't happen to subscribe to that philosophy. To say that I am 'envious' of Capt Lear....maybe 'jealous' is a better term.

No...not even 'jealous'....his life is his, mine is mine.

I started this thread, because I honestly miss the lively reparte'

Cheers, WW

Let the relevance of this statement be ingested and judged as it may.

To me, John Lear and John McCain are the same person in two different bodies.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by MacDonagh
I mean this is a conspiracy site about the discussion of alternative subjects but naval bases under the Nevada desert?
Better off without him.

Well you may dislike John but the Navy Base at Hawthorne Nevada is real

If nothing else, you may become known as one of the greatest dissemblers of all time. Possibly you want to consider a move into politics?

You know darn good and well the issue is not simply the existence of a Naval base in Hawthorne, NV.....Just so new-comers don't get the wrong impression....the issue is that Mr. Lear contended there were submarines, traveling to, and berthing at an underground naval base in Nevada.

No one, absolutely no one, disputed, or disputes, the existence of the Naval Undersea Warfare Center located at Hawthorne, NV.

Submarines docking there? Different story.

I do not lie, if there is one thing I do not do, is lie.

I'm willing to accept the fact that different people have different experiences with John Lear dependent on the forums they are on and which side of the argument they take.

We will all simply have to acknowledge that John Lear is human and also fallible. Because of this there will always be other sides to the story and another view on the objective. We are all entitled to our own opinions.

I apologize for being rude towards John Lear (despite him not being here to defend himself, pretty low of me). I will not apologize to the members on this thread for my opinion, however. As I've stated we are all entitled to our opinions and mine still stands.

Shattered OUT...

John Lear was an enigma here at ATS. He himself wouldn't claim to be posting truths, yet could come up with Moon pictures that no one else could. There was no disputing his aviation background.

While I personally did not believe everything or even most of what he said, there were some gems within all of the other stuff. I miss him here on ATS and I wish he would return and give us some more things to ponder. I really don't care about the behind the scenes issues, he added to ATS more than he diminished ATS.

I wish you well John Lear, I enjoyed having you on ATS, if you are still lurking.

I thought the whole JL thing was out of order and have read on many sites since, reasons he has given for his departure.
I'm not going to get into it because i want to stay here but i have to say that the whole thing stinks....bring back JL!!

Is this a conspiracy on ATS?

I too miss JL, seemed like a pleasant, polite old chap....

Wherever you are.. Keep smiling

Why is there so much venom thrown towards a what seems popular poster who has now left ?

I don't know John Lear but from the sounds of it I too would like him to return if he can create this amount of controversy

Like most of you, I found his posts........interesting if not utterly absurd (sorry).

Personally, and my opinion only, the guy never produced a single shred of evidence for anything he claimed. He got a tremendous amount of leeway because of his last name.

His last name seems to have bestowed a crown of authenticity where it's not deserved. Amazingly accomplished pilot? Without a doubt.

Any of that other business? 'Fraid not.

Can we please get a limit on how many of these types of threads can get started. What is this like the fifth thread about John Lear since he left?

The man is gone, he isn't interested in coming back, and we are better off without him.

Why can't people just accept that? If you really want to listen to his stories, feel free to go visit him at one of the other sites he posts on. I do not care that you miss him, or feel that he was slighted in the least bit.

Stop wasting peoples time and bandwith.