Would a world without religion be a better place?

There are many threads against "religion" and people strongly advocate one side or another. So, would the world be better without "religion"? And if so, how so, or how much of a difference would it make? Or would politics just dominate (or perhaps you are of the mind that religion is just a branch of politics).

A professor of political science told me that wars are fought over these issues, and in this order:
1. Resources
2. Religion
3. Politics/Government

So, lets sound off. As many have made religion a scapegoat for most of the world's problems IMO, then perhaps they can paint a realistic picture of how the world would be better off without religion.

Perhaps a few things should be made clear:

I. Religion comes from the Latin "religare" meaning to tie/bind together, to reconnect and is the opposite of "relaxare" meaning to untie, to relax, or to open. Thus, the word "religion" means the act of connecting to tying oneself to God

II. Most people in the world consider God to mean the God of Abraham; this worldview will likely dominate the discussion.

III. Religion does not equal the Roman Catholic Church (even if I did use Roman Numerals for this list) and it gets quite irritating to answer every other post with "that does not apply to Orthodox Christianity or Protestantism" so I will refer to this post when that issues arises (which it invariably will). I ask all those posting to please help keep this on track, as this thread is not entitled "Would a world without the 'Roman Catholic Church' be a better place?" So, for example, to state that the Crusades were a Christian phenomena is to ignore the murder of many innocent Orthodox Christians, and the Papist armies also sacked Byzantium in 1204; equating these actions with Christianity will be vigorously rejected (at least by me).

IV. To keep true to the intent, perhaps we can avoid a "Roman Catholic vs. Muslim" flame war. The Crusades and the Inquisition were a Roman Catholic/European phenomena that caused a lot of pain and suffering to non-Catholic Christians (i.e. the Orthodox and Protestants) so it would be nice to see a fair analysis of an issue, not just "oneupsmanship". This is an exchange of ideas, not a proselytizing forum.

I would also like to request that the tinfoil hat types would go to another thread to post. I am growing weary of comments like "the Catholic church is broadcasting signals from Church steeples into my head" or "what would you do if I were Jesus." Also, the cynicism of "religion is just mind control" is going to come up, but it would be nice to keep those flame wars civil.

[edit on 2008-9-4 by ScienceDada]

reply to post by ScienceDada


The world put out of many layers of deep sleeps.

^^That's a world where you knew everything at every angle.

Awaking is as rising to withstand truth's sides and center in stereo sound. You know how music is when listening to headphones? There is center sound elements, there is left elements, and there is right element going on the same moment. Those element can be off center and be switched from side to center to side each differently if not all to one same position.

Truth is in stereo. There's a negative, neutral, possitve. And a synonym, anagram, antonym. Etc.

Rise to the how and why and when and where and what and who it is mixing. Then you see sharply an unscammbling to the point.

Just my 6 cent. Truths are mysteries you put a meaning to on purpose to make sense of it alone.

reply to post by ScienceDada

As long as there are differences between people (in politics, in skin colour, in nationality, in wealth, and yes, even in beliefs) there will be fighting between people.

It's something of a puzzle/problem, because nobody wants to be exactly the same as everyone else.

I personally don't want to live in a world without religion. I am well aware of the religious intolerance/atrocities/wars/horrors that have occurred throughout the centuries, and I do not condone any of them (obviously). But to consider what a world without the possibility of these things occurring would be like, we have to examine not only the benefits, but also the consequences of such an arrangement.

These consequences would be a state-controlled belief system. Obviously, people have the ability to think and form opinions. This is attested to by the life experiences of every single human who has ever walked the ground. In order to remove religion, which is based on common beliefs of people, from society completely, there would have to be strictly enforced laws on all speech and action. We are talking totalitarian police state here.

So, no, I do not wish to live in such a world. If others do, then I guess that is their right to believe what they want. I do not see that right extending to my beliefs, however, only to each person's own beliefs.

TheRedneck

I totally think the World would be better off without any religion.

If there's a planet where I could live without having the influence of religious dogmas then I'll gladly live there.

I live an adapt by my environment. My social and mental, to the physical environment. I rather just see Humankind work to self preserve and better themselves. In doing so then is better able to contribute to his fellow humans.

Strive to achieve the mastering of providing the basics of life needed to survive.
Share this success, un-suppress all knowledge, un-suppress technology and medicines, un-suppress sciences and patents that would benefit humanity as a whole. Sharing the power of Human kinds innovations instead of extorting it through multi-corporations. Give open access to all ancient artifacts instead of locking away in church basements for the church eyes only because the church found the excavations. It's all Humans history not a specific religious institute.

I believe religion was set up as a tool by men although placed with good moral and guidelines, was ultimately a form of keeping control and power to the oligarchy.

I believe religion has a heavy hand in the sad state of affairs that are on this planet Earth.

I believe in only a religion to ourselves to prosper and exist. Spreading peace and unity, sharing knowledge and our inventions. Not oppressing people by suppressing idea's that would destroy current positions of power in the religious institution, corporate conglomerates, and government fields.

I'm open to the possibility of God in perhaps the sense of the universe's and laws that govern them.

Although practicing anyway of life could be considered religious.


edited because I have horrible grammar
[edit on 4-9-2008 by GodshipForAll]

[edit on 4-9-2008 by GodshipForAll]

[edit on 4-9-2008 by GodshipForAll]

Originally posted by GodshipForAll
I totally think the World would be better off without any religion.

If there's a planet where I could live without having the influence of religious dogmas then I'll gladly live there.

I think that a lot of the values which are taken for granted are a consequence of religion. These would include a sense of right vs. wrong and protection of the weak.

Thus, a world without religion would be ruled as the strong over the weak, and would be a constant war zone. It likely would never evolve beyond tribal warfare. This is because the belief in something greater than yourself keeps people in check, and altruism makes little (if any sense) otherwise.

Why would you want to live in such a world?

Thinking that a world without religion is possible is a fallacy. We humans need to believe in something, whether is believing a god exists or whether we believe the opposite.

If for one second we would WANT to irradicate religion, how would we go about it? We cannot stop people having faith. It hasn't happened in the history of man-kind. Communism tried to stamp it out, ban all religion, but it has been unable to do so as religious people will go underground and practice their beliefs in secret.


The fact is, there is a need to believe that we will be saved and kept out of harms way providing we are good. Disregarding the fact that a lot of evil has been instigated in the name of a god or religious code. People believe whilst disregarding the fact that life is unfair and random: Genocidal tyrants die in their sleep while innocent children are abused, murdered and enslaved.

These conundrums do not rock this belief that a great proportion of people have. The question on how a merciful God can allow this to happen is studied but remains unanswered. Everyone, of course, has an opinion on this but is ultimately not the point.

Faith is intrinsically linked to being Human. Even atheists will pray to the parking god to lend them a parking spot.

Hope is essential otherwise what is the point in living?






[edit on 4/9/08 by Lebowski achiever]

IMO religion is one of the biggest contributing factors to war and hate. Without it, it would be more peaceful. I don't want to go to in depth about this because I don;t want to upset or insult anyone, but I think it would be a better place without it. Good question btw

Originally posted by KaginD
IMO religion is one of the biggest contributing factors to war and hate. Without it, it would be more peaceful.

But wouldn't politics just replace religion? And we would still fight over resources... so I think it is difficult to indict religion.

I suppose some of us would like you to go more in-depth, even if that means machine gun posting. This is an idea exchange, and it seems to be quite a civil one at that (somewhat to my surprise)

I rather see the faith in a God replaced by a faith in Humanity and our self preservation as a whole species the number on priority.

Fakk politics to it would need to go as well.

We need a new way of life and mindset........Thats what we fight over I think.

It's our differences in the way we choose to live our life and what we need to support it that makes us battle.

I Think we need to start from scratch again and re-prioritize, starting from the basics of what we need to sustain and enjoy a prosperous way of life for all.

Start with a new way in how we decide to influence our children on the way they should live I guess.

I dunno.

W

I'm gonna go with the idea that human would still be killing each other in the various names of atheism.

Originally posted by GodshipForAll
I rather see the faith in a God replaced by a faith in Humanity and our self preservation as a whole species the number on priority.

Fakk politics to it would need to go as well.

To probe deeper, this is really proposing to substitute humanism for traditional religion. One could argue that humanism is a religious system, especially when self-described as "faith in humanity".

And to say politics would need to go is difficult to understand (at least for me) except in the context of "all people should think the way [GodshipForAll] thinks, then nobody would disagree." Isn't this in fact at the very core of why you (apparently) despise religion to begin with? And what happens when we have internal conflict, let alone when individuals disagree?

And this is not to single you out, only to have discussion.

This is a naive idea. What problems exactly would the absence of religion end?

This is one of those threads you see pop up every 36 hours or so by people who apparently cannot use the search feature.

Wrong question.

The correct question should be: "Instead of letting differences in culture and opinion be a cause of attack, can we let these differences be a cause of appreciation and learning?"

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
This is a naive idea. What problems exactly would the absence of religion end?

This is one of those threads you see pop up every 36 hours or so by people who apparently cannot use the search feature.

I originally posted it to the conspiracy in religion forum, then the moderator bumped me here. I was expecting to have this thread answered by a group that I have held discussions with on numerous other topics where this issue keeps popping up. I did not intend to reinvent the wheel... sry

Why would the world be better without religion??

Well...for one we wouldnt see innocent people like that 17 year old girl get killed over such issues as religion.

We wouldnt see any wars.

No one would have any reason to spout "my god is bigger than your god" BS.

If there is only one true God...why does this world need so many different religions????


Cheers!!!

I know that spirituality is part of human civilization and its positive effects are just as numerous as the negative. I just don't think we should have churches or run them in the traditional way, with one "authority" preaching his or her perspective to the rest.

Anyone studying the religious scripture/doctrine of their choice is going to interpret it personally in one way or another, but I think that to have one person "preaching" their interpretation discourages everyone else from reading the scripture and forming their own understanding of it.

Maybe discussion groups would be better? I don't know. I'm aware that people generally want to feel like they're part of a tight community, like there are others who think the way they do, but I think that giving one man or a small group of men authority and influence over the personal spiritual beliefs of hundreds or thousands of others is a bad idea.

Originally posted by ScienceDada
There are many threads against "religion" and people strongly advocate one side or another. So, would the world be better without "religion"? And if so, how so, or how much of a difference would it make? Or would politics just dominate (or perhaps you are of the mind that religion is just a branch of politics).

IMO, politics is a means of controlling the people, religion is no different, it is a good message, told for bad reasons.

A professor of political science told me that wars are fought over these issues, and in this order:
1. Resources(Westminster, 'The Crown')
2. Religion (Vatican City)
3. Politics/Government(Washington D.C)

(my italics)

3 city states? Wars are fought over control, control of land, resources and people, to control these 3, you would control the wars, the land, the resources and therefore the people.

So, lets sound off. As many have made religion a scapegoat for most of the world's problems IMO, then perhaps they can paint a realistic picture of how the world would be better off without religion.

The religions themselves speak of a better way of living, of helping your fellow man/woman, aswell as respceting him/her. It's a good message that has been warped by, IMO, all varying religions to date. Some have rectified this problem on the whole, although still retaining a small portion of the more fanatic individuals, nobody's perfect. Others have no intention of rectifying it, and are using it still as a means of control.

Spirituality should not be synonymous with religion, neither should God, or your concept of 'God'. It's a journey of discovery, a way of explaining the world we live in, giving it some sort of sense or meaning. If religion were to be abolished, spirituality must be promoted, otherwise we will be left to a world of science, a belief system in it's own right, albeit a more tangible one and we would fall into the same trap all over again.

Thanks, good thread.

EMM

[edit on 5-9-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

[edit on 5-9-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

Without some form of religion, moral living, there is no civilization.. It's pretty easy to see...

Originally posted by RFBurns
Why would the world be better without religion??

Well...for one we wouldnt see innocent people like that 17 year old girl get killed over such issues as religion.

I'll give you this one almost all the way. People don't need some god for an honor killing. They just need their brand of honor and that can come from anywhere. But, yeah, god is an easy and quick place to get that motivation.

We wouldnt see any wars.

This is just wrong. You mean to tell me without religion there would have been no French Revolution, American revolution, American Civil War, WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Korea, Gulf War, current Iraq War and on and on.

Just about the only war that might have been prevented was the period of Crusades but I'm plenty sure they would have come up with some other excuse. Frankly, I'm really tired of this whole idea that without religion there would be no war. I mean, c'mon.

No one would have any reason to spout "my god is bigger than your god" BS.

No, but my skin is different than yours, my diet is better than yours, my car is faster than yours, my country is richer than yours, my gun is bigger than yours, our politics are better than yours, and of course my penis is much much bigger than yours.