Dear Mr. Obama

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


Yeah... "powerful" slander and manipulation indeed... for the neocon sheeps at least.

What about that McCain campaign video on the thousands of American soldiers who died there for a totally illegal and unjustified war?

Oh yeah... of course he forgot that small detail.

Originally posted by Echtelion
What about that McCain campaign video on the thousands of American soldiers who died there for a totally illegal and unjustified war?

You see. You call others liars and then you tell the biggest lie of all.

The war is neither illegal nor unjustified.

You just repeat what the liars tell you, because obviously you weren't listening when the arguments for the war in Iraq were made.

I feel sorry for you.

reply to post by Bunch


I thank you for your post and your service. I cannot agree with you more. I did my time in the desert.

I appreciate your honesty and the courage it takes to speak out in today's political climate. Those who have not been there cannot understand, not even veterans of other wars.

Speaking as someone who's been there, in my mind, you represent the reality of being at war today.

OP: I thank you for your service and dedication to the veterans at home.
I can't help but get the impression that you are projecting your own war experiences onto today's veteran.

I do not feel the need to politicize and polarize the views of veterans of the middle east war. As you well know anyone who has served has a right to their opinion, and for it to be heard.

Just as in your war, people are dying and losing limbs for politicians. This will never be considered just nor can it be compared to freedom.

In the interest of keeping this short, I would only like to say that you could not be more off base about contractors. Everyone who served in a theater of war deserves to be compensated equally.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
The war is neither illegal nor unjustified.

That depends. Do you believe that the the Constitution is the highest form of law in the U.S.?

If you do, then you may want to take note of Article 6.

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land...

The U.S. was one of the first countries to sign the U.N. Charter, and since that signing we are legally bound under international and domestic law to obey it. The U.N. Charter became a part of "the supreme Law of the Land" in the U.S., and any violation of the U.N. Charter is a violation of the U.S. Constitution as well.

In regards to the U.N. charter, it condemns the use of force unless the country is defending itself if/when attacked by another, or when authorized by the U.N. Security Council. The U.S. did not have authorization by the U.N. Security Council.

As to the notion of self defence, it has been thoroughly shown that Hussein had no connections to 9/11, and even the 9/11 Comission Report agreed that there was no evidence connecting Saddam. The WMD threat has also been shown to be largely exagerated (if not outright false). In short, Hussein posed no immediate threat to the U.S..

Given that there was no U.N. Security Council authorization, nor did Saddam pose an immediate threat to justify our own "self defence", the Iraq war is illegal under domestic and international law. By definition, the Iraq war is an illegal "war of aggression".

People did listen when the arguments for the war in Iraq were made; however, those arguments were based on exagerations and lies.


[edit on 9/6/08 by redmage]

Most people who live ordinary lives here in the US simply don't possess the most accurate perspective on the world we live in. There are a million and one reasons for this, but the average US citizen can't help that. We simply don't have experience in dealing with foreign leaders, traveling to the middle east and talking face to face with it's leaders, etc etc etc. But despite the lack of these experiences and/or knowledge of the world, we still pass judgement on those who make decisions for our country on topics pertaining to this, when these people DO have the experience. People think John McCain and all the other politicians who are in favor of the war are simply "misguided" or even "evil", because of the wrong perspective we Americans have, all the while thinking it is the RIGHT perspective. Those of us who think that NOT fighting back, NOT asserting ourselves in the face of these evil nations/terrorists groups, or just sitting down and negotiating with them, would be making the worst decision in the history of this great country. There is a reason the people who lead this country, lead. They have the experience, knowledge, and wisdom to know how the world and it's corrupt leaders work. To think that "not fighting would be the first step towards peace" is being as niave as possible concerning these issues. The truth of the matter is, terrorists cannot be bargained with, they can't be reasoned with, they will not stop, ever, until their agenda is fulfilled. The moment we stop fighting them, is the moment we lose. Don't be deceived by a temporary time of peace following the sudden end of a war, like many people are wanting. That would be the calm before the real storm my friends.

reply to post by Bunch


Godspeed to you and the troops my friend. I can only imagine the feelings you have had to endure. If there is a hell I hope those that sent you to fight they're greedy agenda end up there.

I wish I had more to say except one of the many reasons I hate war is the fact that fine people like yourself end up feeling used and abandoned.

Grady some of us "civilians" that you so wholeheartedly despise have done more in a short span of time for this country then you did in your entire career enlisted in that false flag war in Nam. You should be ashamed of yourself talking down on fellow Americans. If it wasn't for us slaving away for this messed up country you probably wouldn't be getting that social security check every month.

The video is despicable, and complete propaganda. Anyone can put on an army shirt with a leg missing and say w/e they want on youtube.

They should have left McCain in his bamboo cage for the amount of damage that senile fool has done to this country and it's citizens. Can we give him back to the V.C.?

Originally posted by redmage
The U.N. Charter became a part of "the supreme Law of the Land" in the U.S., and any violation of the U.N. Charter is a violation of the U.S. Constitution as well.

This is a figment of your imagination, to put it charitably.

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


So are you claiming that the U.N. Charter wasn't a treaty, or do you merely not comprehend the Constitution?

trea·ty

1. a formal agreement between two or more states in reference to peace, alliance, commerce, or other international relations.
2. the formal document embodying such an international agreement.
3. any agreement or compact.

Again, "and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land".

reply to post by redmage


I just don't trust you and your interpretation.

If, in fact, the UN charter is the "supreme law of the land" in the US, then thanks for the heads up.

I can begin my personal campaign to have the US withdraw from the UN and send the rest of those sweaty monkeys back to their respective dung pits.

reply to post by redmage


How many UN security resolutions passed by the UN were broken by Saddam while in control of Iraq? I am not sure, but I know the number is in the double digits.

Why pass the resolution if your not going to enforce it?

The UN should be thankful the US gave them some credibilty.

We went into Iraq as liberators, the Iraq people deserve something more than give up and pull-out.

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


OP: I thank you for your service and dedication to the veterans at home.
I can't help but get the impression that you are projecting your own war experiences onto today's veteran.

I do not feel the need to politicize and polarize the views of veterans of the middle east war. As you well know anyone who has served has a right to their opinion, and for it to be heard.

Just as in your war, people are dying and losing limbs for politicians. This will never be considered just nor can it be compared to freedom.

In the interest of keeping this short, I would only like to say that you could not be more off base about contractors. Everyone who served in a theater of war deserves to be compensated equally.

I know that I double-posted this but I feel that it was lost in the context of my other post and I think it's an important point to address with the OP.

I believe the war in Afghanistan is entirely justifiable. It has harbored and condoned the terrorists who caused 9/11 and would do more damage than that if they could. Our military presence there is self-defense.

Iraq is another matter. It was not directly responsible for the attacks on the U.S., and while it undoubtedly had some sympathy for the terrorists so did a lot of other Islamic nations and we have not attacked them.

In Iraq we have gotten ourselves into the middle of another country's civil war. I thought after Vietnam we would have learned that that is ony destructive to the U.S. We could easily spend many more years, and many more lives, putting down native insurgencies. One can only successfully import democracy to people who really want it. The Iraqis themselves have indicated that they, left to their own devices, would likely establish a theocracy and they want the U.S. to step down its presence there.

Barack Obama is only advocating a gradual pulling out from Iraq; he has not included Afghanistan.

Wanting to save more American lives from being lost in a futile endeavor is patriotic. Our service men and women deserve the greatest respect and support while they are in the middle east and when they get back to the U.S. Nobody challenges that; certainly not Obama, who is advocating more benefits for veterans. Throwing our troops into what many of us see as a futile endeavor is not patriotism, it's blind obstinacy. That's how we lost 55,000 lives in the last civil war we intervened in.

Originally posted by Sestias
Wanting to save more American lives from being lost in a futile endeavor is patriotic.

Iraq is not a futile endeavor, regardless of how often those like you repeat the lie.

Vietnam was not a civil war, as you claim, and the North Vietnamese were all but defeated after Tet '68, but Johnson folded to the cowards in the streets and in Congress and began a withdrawal of US troops. The North Vietnamese leadership of the time concede this fact and indeed, Saigon did not fall until a full two years after US combat forces were withdrawn from South Vietnam.

You want the same thing in Iraq and you just can't stand it when courageous young men stand forward to testify to the good we are doing in there.

As usual, the truth gets lost in the noise and distractions created by the enemy at home.

You are not patriotic, unless you're allegiance is to al Qaeda and other sponsors of terrorism.

There is no substitute for victory; defeat is not an option.

[edit on 2008/9/6 by GradyPhilpott]