For those of you who believe in a Masonic conspiracy

Originally posted by GodshipForAll
Also a lot of these masons run a lot of the major companies stores in town...

You originally said that Masons run 'Major companies', are you now modifying this statement because the one quoted above is not the same? Again, I ask you, what are the names of these companies?

...and run their own private business......seems like they seem to help each other out
now why not just drop the secret group and, help everyone out.

Masons do help 'everyone out'. The majority of lodge charity work and donations is for the benefit of non-Masons.

oh ya also Kinda neato that Freemasons designed and built our parliament building here in Canada.....thanks masons we sure couldn't of done it ourselves....and leave the awful demonic crap all over it with your "secret" symbols and altars

What is 'demonic' about the Canadian Parliment building and where are the altars?

...separation from church and state I guess doesn't apply to Freemasonry

Since Masonry is niether Church nor State I do not see an issue. Would you care to explain this further?

[edit on 4-9-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]

Originally posted by dunwichwitch
It's funny you mentioned killing me before I made it big. I've had attempts on my life by so called friends twice now.

That circumstance sounds fairly serious. Have you reported it to the proper legal authorities?

I am not blaming Masons for that... but you have secrets that you can't share. Who knows? Maybe the indie masons got pissed when I made fun of Freemasons. I was like "Why do you wanna be a member of a cult?"

What aspect of Masonry exactly do you find to be 'cultish'?

I read the article about the musicians being masons. You really don't know how cool that is. These guys can travel to any town in the world almost, and know that they have a friend. It could even be old farts just hanging out who don't know your music, but they will be friendly and help you out any way they can. Can you imagine how nice that would be? And you could meet life long friends from anywhere. Just don't write off the masons because of what you heard, check it out for yourself to make sure there are no bloody alters or a fresh grave out back.
And the reason we don't have windows is one of are most closely guarded secrets, you see nobody likes to wash windows and we, being good with bricks and all, got rid of all the work.

These are my reservations about joining the Freemasons:

* Taking of oaths which I don't know if I can keep or not.
* Dogmatic symbolism indoctrination without knowing beforehand the underlying meaning.
* Many masons come across superficial and in it for the old boys club network rather than to develop as 'good fellows'. Also many reputed masons in higher positions have dubious affiliations and principles. This is a big turnoff. (I'm not out to name & shame).
* Caveat Emptor. Imo only fools rush into cults without full prior understanding of the culture and commitments they are getting into.
* The whole freemasonry rituals that have leaked out don't appeal to my spiritual or artistic nature. They come across 'stuffy', antiquated, and a little pompous. Sorry bout that one
* Is this truly the best we can come up with in the 21st century, and don't get me started on Scientology!
* Respect is a mutual affair and it is my impression that many freemasons treat the general public with great disrespect. Goyim?
* And um, women?
* Regarding conspiracy, it's apparent to anyone not dulled enough already that most overt history is complete rubbish and average citizens are treated like mushrooms, with Masonry and Catholicism in some kind of longstanding schism. Why get involved in internecine antics when even the basic facts aren't even made available to us plebs, and frankly I don't agree with the system of society either side seem to be offering. Look where we are as a society and world today, this is largely the fruit of Masonic / Catholic / Judaic activity.

I've thought about it long and hard and there's a lot of other reasons, which haven't come to mind right now. I also agree with many of the sentiments expressed by ConspiracyNut23 & GodshipForAll. Seems an awful lot of cons weighed up against merely finding out what the Masonic mysteries are and making some new (powerful?) friends.

We have been asked time and again why we won't divulge the secret grips and passwords.

I have struggled trying to find a good reason that was both true and at the same time clearly explains this behavior to non-masons.

I finally found it. It is in an ancient copy of Duncan's Ritual of Freemasonry (a MUST for all conspiracy theorists).

Duncan's has every secret ceremony, password and pictures of all the handshakes. You can order it on Amazon and it will be delivered the next day. Any secret you want to know is in there.

Why am I not concerned about sharing this with you?

"The non-Masonic reader, as he peruses them, will perhaps be puzzled to imagine why matters of so little real importance to society at large should have been so industriously concealed for centuries, and STILL MORE SURPRISED that society should have been so extremely inquisitive about them."

In other words, you too can order the book, read the secrets and then scratch your head and go, "What the...? This is stupid!"

The object of the Order in making a profound mystery of its proceedings is obvious enough. Sea-birds are not more invariably attracted toward a lighted beacon on a dark night, than men to whatever savors of mystery. Curiousity has had a much greater influence in swelling the ranks of Masonry than philantropy and brotherly love."

Here Duncan writes what we all have been thinking. Most of us joined out of a curiosity to find out what was hidden, not from some self-righteous need to help others. We were like you. We craved to find out what the big secret was and when we learned that the secret was silly we found out that we were having a great time learning about the real purpose of masonry, brotherly love and charity.

Further...

It will be observed by the initiated, that the following exposition gives no information through which any person not a Mason could obtain admission to a Lodge. It is due to the Order that its meetings should not be disturbed by the intrusion of persons who do not contribute to its support,or to the furtherance of its humane design, and whose motives in seeking admission to its halls would be impertinent and ungentlemanly.

Duncan then lists over 280 pages covering all the secret degrees, passwords and activities of masons.

So, to summarize -

Q - Why won't you give me the secrets?
A - You don't deserve them. You must receive them as we all received them if you want to know them.

Q - What if I discovered them on my own. How could you stop me from infiltrating the lodge?
A - The lodge is as my home, and my brothers are as my family. If some vagrant showed up at your door one day during a family celebration claiming to be your long lost uncle frank with all the birth certificates and geneological family history, would you just invite him right into your private family celebration? Of course not. We know who is in our family and we love our family to grow, but not even President Bush could sneak his way into our lodge because he is not a member of our family. We know who we are.

Q - Based on what you are telling us your secrets are stupid and meaningless.

A - You are correct. The secret words and handshakes mean nothing and through them you gain nothing. There is only one way to receive the true secret of masonry and it can't be done through written or spoken words. It cannot be given, it can only be received. It can only be received by a true brother who has sworn to uphold and protect it.

The true secret of masonry is worth the work. It is a wonderful, amazing, transformative experience that gives you clear understanding of yourself, your world and your God. When you search for and find the true light of masonry it will quite frankly blow your mind and make you realize, perhaps for the first time in your life, that all you can see, hear and feel is only a tiny representation of all that exists.

Before I hop on the recruiting train, I just wanted to share this beautiful lesson.

Freemasonry has been very carefully designed over three centuries to protect itself from cowans and eavesdroppers who would seek the secrets for their own perverse benefit.

If you want anymore info, u2u a brother and we will tell you anthing you want.

Originally posted by Shar_Chi
These are my reservations about joining the Freemasons:

* Taking of oaths which I don't know if I can keep or not.
* Dogmatic symbolism indoctrination without knowing beforehand the underlying meaning.
* Many masons come across superficial and in it for the old boys club network rather than to develop as 'good fellows'. Also many reputed masons in higher positions have dubious affiliations and principles. This is a big turnoff. (I'm not out to name & shame).
* Caveat Emptor. Imo only fools rush into cults without full prior understanding of the culture and commitments they are getting into.
* The whole freemasonry rituals that have leaked out don't appeal to my spiritual or artistic nature. They come across 'stuffy', antiquated, and a little pompous. Sorry bout that one

* Is this truly the best we can come up with in the 21st century, and don't get me started on Scientology!
* Respect is a mutual affair and it is my impression that many freemasons treat the general public with great disrespect. Goyim?
* And um, women?
* Regarding conspiracy, it's apparent to anyone not dulled enough already that most overt history is complete rubbish and average citizens are treated like mushrooms, with Masonry and Catholicism in some kind of longstanding schism. Why get involved in internecine antics when even the basic facts aren't even made available to us plebs, and frankly I don't agree with the system of society either side seem to be offering. Look where we are as a society and world today, this is largely the fruit of Masonic / Catholic / Judaic activity.

I've thought about it long and hard and there's a lot of other reasons, which haven't come to mind right now. I also agree with many of the sentiments expressed by ConspiracyNut23 & GodshipForAll. Seems an awful lot of cons weighed up against merely finding out what the Masonic mysteries are and making some new (powerful?) friends.

The only oath is that you promise not to reveal our rituals and passwords to non masons.

Our symbolism is not dogmatic. Masonry has no dogma. Or symbolism is presented and its up to each mason to interpret it and use it as a tool in his own life.

The words of the antiquated rituals are boring to listen to, but the lessons are beautiful. You take a little olde-english mumbo jumbo and some pretty paintings and then every time you see that ritual you notice something more that what you saw the last time. You begin to notice that a staircase is not a staircase, but it represents a mans life.

Freemasons treat everyone with equal respect. The stories you hear about rudeness are not because masons WANT to be rude. It's because they are dying to talk to you but our code does not let us recruit. We aren't even allowed to say, "Hey I think you would be a great mason! Wanna join? because then we are a cult.

Inside this cryptic mason lodge are people who want you to join as badly as you want to join, they just have to wait, sitting on their hands until you make first contact by calling the lodge.

Caveat Emptor does not apply in this case. You will be given a full understanding of everything that will happen to you. Sure, some of it is silly and fun, but you will not be phsically harmed or humiliated. You will not be asked to do or say anything that violates any sacred belief you have.



At any rate before the proselytizing caribineiri find out that we are promoting free thought.

u2u me or any of these stinky bros and I will send you my email address for offline harrassment.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by dunwichwitch
It's funny you mentioned killing me before I made it big. I've had attempts on my life by so called friends twice now.

That circumstance sounds fairly serious. Have you reported it to the proper legal authorities?

I am not blaming Masons for that... but you have secrets that you can't share. Who knows? Maybe the indie masons got pissed when I made fun of Freemasons. I was like "Why do you wanna be a member of a cult?"

What aspect of Masonry exactly do you find to be 'cultish'?

The same authorities who arrested me for calling them there? The same authorities who refused to question anyone involved, even after I told them that I'd been threatened at gunpoint and held down and injected with a syringe and there was a gun and possibly illegal narcotics in the premises that I had just fled from? Those same authorities?

About the "cult-ish" comment, to some Masons maybe it's just some frat boy high five woohoo fest, but others take it very very seriously...

I find the rituals "culti-ish". I find the oath of secrecy cult-ish. I find the Mason's holier-than-thou attitude cult-ish. I find that every Mason except the ones who tried to recruit me have downplayed the significance of the role of Masons throughout the world both past and present to almost sound like they are repeating mantras and prefabricated notions like they've been drilled to do and say certain things... and that sems very cult-ish.

Originally posted by Mason mike
I read the article about the musicians being masons. You really don't know how cool that is. These guys can travel to any town in the world almost, and know that they have a friend. It could even be old farts just hanging out who don't know your music, but they will be friendly and help you out any way they can. Can you imagine how nice that would be? And you could meet life long friends from anywhere. Just don't write off the masons because of what you heard, check it out for yourself to make sure there are no bloody alters or a fresh grave out back.
And the reason we don't have windows is one of are most closely guarded secrets, you see nobody likes to wash windows and we, being good with bricks and all, got rid of all the work.

What I've heard? Mind you, I've had to reflect on this situation that happened becaiuse at the time I wasn't really open to conspiracy theory or occult stuff... but I've come face to face with MASONS basically telling me that they control the world and that they have superpowers and talk to entities and #, and at the time I totally laughed in the face of it. I was convinced it was just some odd cult and these guys were just talking out of their butts, but they were DEAD serious. These guys weren't living in mansions either. More like a small little house in the boonies. So this leads me to believe that it is something more that just "making good business contacts". The fact that these guys took such offense to me making fun of their fraternity for being what sounded like a crazy cult, makes me believe that they think of it as a little more than just "a group of buddies"

I have an observation:

If I ran into a group of people who told me that they would give me "power beyond my imagination" (so Faustian its almost cliche, by the way) by joining "the masons" - and then saw that these same people lived in a insignificant house out in the country side, there would be two avenues of belief possible:

1) These people are telling the truth. Though they somehow show no signs of wealth or anything they "promise," they really are members of freemasonry and are going to be able to give me lots of power.

2) These people are teasing me. They show no signs of wealth because they have none, because freemasonry - like all of its other members claim - does not give grand power over anything.

It seems to me that option number two is the most logical. Why then are people willing to fling all logic, reason, and rationality and assume option 1 must be true?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


No I'm saying the Mason owned Corporation, is managed and operated locally by a mason who owns the building sorry for not clarifying. Could be coincidence I suppose.


Also whatever I'm not really going to get into this you guys obviously have your ways as do non-masons

Except I intended on promoting a free and open society without secret societies and associations.

What can average Masons do? The same that people whom are not affiliated with them.

Welcome members of the Human society. In todays proceedings with open doors and free access, we will discuss on how to maintain our way of prosperity, freedom, peace, unity, and progressive adaptability to self-preservation as a whole Human species.

To be a member you must believe in your species first and foremost.

And sure Porch masons fund raise for their communities and oh ya so good...

Well I despise money and the makers there of. We all no where the money trail leads.

Also can anyone provide a link to the membership growth in say Canada?
is it increasing or decreasing? or is that a secret as well?

Search for images of decorations adorning the building, maybe you can clarify what they are for me. And I stand correct I meant altar.

An altar is also used where important ceremonies take place....theres one in there.

[edit on 5-9-2008 by GodshipForAll]

reply to post by GodshipForAll

I strongly sympathise with your sentiment regarding open societies. Secrecy tends to breed shenanigans. Or so I thought...

Recently upon investigating Australian aboriginal culture and society in pre-colonial days it quickly became apparent that tribal life was arranged in a mode strikingly similar to that freemasonry uses. The men had their separate initiations and rituals to the 'women's business'. Knowledge was purposefully withheld until the initiate proved ready and / worthy to receive esoteric knowledge that gave them a deeper understanding of the society and its connection with the 'dreaming'. This all came as a revelation to me, considering aboriginal culture was strong enough to last 40,000+ years this has made me do a double take on freemasonry and the mystery school practise of initiation, ritual and esoteric knowledge.

So while I naturally gravitate to side with you GodshipForAll, that all knowledge should be shared freely and openly, I have discovered a completely independent and strong case where the mystery school model has been a tested, proven and consistent model for sustainable society over literally aeons of time.

So extrapolating that, let's quickly consider modern science and it's application by people with unproven moral integrity... if all science was shared freely and openly we would be giving nuclear secrets to fundamentalist terrorists. A crude example perhaps, but shows that knowledge in the wrong hands can pose a real problem. I am not per se advocating freemasons to be the guardians of all knowledge etc merely illustrating that a systematic approach to the management of knowledge may not be totally out of order.

Btw money was not involved in traditional aboriginal society!

reply to post by Shar_Chi


Awesome rebuttal.

I suppose for the fundamentalist we'll have to openly decide in public forums on how to raise our children again. And with what mindset do we breed?

Multiple facets in ways of living as individuals or as a whole species? Or one?

This world needs a whole revamping from problems developed long before any of us were born.

What way of life shall we choose to condone?

I think one country still has yet to develop a society where it can lead by example.

We haven't even mastered are basics. Not because we can't in my opinion because our leaders are not allowing us.

Oh globalize this merge that import export. I say not yet.

We need to localize our production in respect to the local population.
Certain populated area will require site for local food and crop productions, clothing materials, energy plants etc etc.

Learn to self sustain locally and expand when needed. This would reduce the need for cross global imports and exports.......Here take raw this.....build this because your labours cheap save money economy blah blah ......
Oh Brazilians have high rate of poverty and starvation.....well thanks for those awesome bananas we really need up here in Canada.

Essentials and basics mastered in it's purest form along with room for advancement an expansion is what I want to see first.

The world looks like to me someone stepped on couple ants nests and all hells broken loose.

I don't know, I just don't know.

reply to post by GodshipForAll

Yes such thoughts are on my mind also, which is partly why I was investigating indigenous cultures more closely, to see what can be (re)learned from traditional ways. Sourcing produce from local bioregions is a no-brainer and there are countless other similar things to be rediscovered from the traditional custodians of the land.

But a lot of the problems in the world stem from the model of society which emerged in the last 6000 years to engulf the whole world. The social pyramid we consider civilisation. The division of society into classes, in order to prop up and indulge a ruling elite. Under such a system, when the Pharaohs forget how to rule with wisdom and respect for life, we end up pretty much where we are today.

I perceive that freemasonry has a vested interest in such an order, albeit with improved leadership (which if true, it has failed miserably). Hence I remain unconvinced at the longterm value of the fraternity, yet I don't pretend to know it well enough to pass any full or final judgements. I'd be interested in being corrected.

reply to post by dunwichwitch


If any mason told you we rule the world, he was one of two thing, High on crack, or not a mason, or both. This is one of those things that I can't find a way to explain it to you without sounding like I am not telling the truth, but if you ever join and you meet a bunch of fellow masons, look around and ask, are these geezers the ones who I used to think were gong to rule the world. No disrespect to the geezers. I will be there too one day.
You don't have to join to infiltrate the lodge, all you need to do is find out what night is lodge night and call ahead to see if you can come out for dinner. They will feed you and answer your questions. And while you are talking to them, keep what I said in the back of your mind.

Originally posted by GodshipForAll
reply to post by Shar_Chi

 

We haven't even mastered are basics. Not because we can't in my opinion because our leaders are not allowing us.

I have a theory on this. I am of the opinion that the Mass Media is in complete control of how we act as a society. How are fads made, you are shown the "popular people" doing something that you should want to do too. Whatever message they convey, we as a society gobble it up and regurgitate it on every available oportunity. The culture should come from people, not the idiot box. I hope things change.

reply to post by Shar_Chi


Ya That's awesome your studying our ancient ways we humans had to live. It's a great idea That I'm going to dedicate some time into looking up.
Theres a vast array of possible reasons why we went into the pyramidal complex society. Smart yet lazy men. The men who possibly created religions and royalty after mankind domesticated animals and began agriculture, maybe saw fit to take advantage of such a wealth of man power in one locale. To maybe the fact that people are smarter in certain aspects, some are stronger in certain aspects, and their positions in society are adjusted to that. Now with that who's to determine the wealth distributed. We are all working as links in the chain, and should be rewarded equally.

This man invented wireless communications and wireless power transmissions. He did so in societies with people working as a whole to form a stable platform in which progress can be made. Now some rich fellow buys the patents, either suppresses them or extorts the product.

Why not say in example "pay through dedication and need of such device" build the wireless modems plant them on top of power poles with solar panels. (or that resonate wireless powering).....and viola ......communications for all from people who enjoy that field of science and desire to see people talk.

Meanwhile another person who desires to till the land grow livestock and produce food in biospheres year round growing conditions. Not because of the money because people actually desire these lifestyles. Now because this man is a provider for his people I'm sure the ones who are making the communications systems are going to want to eat. And the farmers gonna love talking now.

I'm still trying to work out this plan of mine,sorta barder but out of necessities not indulgences. Like here's a useless diamond(which are not rare I've mined them) now I want a big house for my dog kinda useless deals.

You know that huge pyramid structure Dubai wants to build. Why the hell aren't we achieving something like that. A million person dwelling state of the art and suited to be able to be updated when needed. Beside it have a dome for our produce and crops and medicinals to grow.

Inter connect those suckers with mag lev trains....maybe even ones in vacumm sealed tubes for hyper-velocities. Now the people can travel all over the super cities. Which would make our pollution easily contained. Canada hasn't built anything sweet as a nation since our old ass train system a hundred some odd years ago.

What are we doing I wonder really? I strongly believe our generation should of gone to the moon on a science trip in grade school.

Along the way Science was suppressed and wars were started. Imagine the opposite of wars and the war machine. What we could develop as species in the same dedicated fashion?

sorry it's so long and not cohesive it's 5:40 am I'm drained.


peace and love

reply to post by GodshipForAll


Our ethics are way out of whack, our culture is deranged and our leaders are like kids bickering in the sandbox. I think we should mebbe take a step or 2 back before we take 3 more forward. Find some balance on this planet then we can proceed to the stars in peace. The solutions are fairly obvious, it's just hard for a lot of people to let go of ego and materialism. It's easier to slap on the ipod and ignore the world gone mad.

Originally posted by dunwichwitch
The same authorities who arrested me for calling them there?

Out of curiosity, what were you arrested for after reporting an attempted murder?

I find the rituals "culti-ish". I find the oath of secrecy cult-ish. I find the Mason's holier-than-thou attitude cult-ish.

I think the majority of Masons who post on this site to be more then deferential and lacking in any posture which would bely moral superiority.

I find that every Mason except the ones who tried to recruit me have downplayed the significance of the role of Masons throughout the world both past and present to almost sound like they are repeating mantras and prefabricated notions like they've been drilled to do and say certain things...

Perhaps it could be that they are just speaking the truth. Can you provide me with some examles of what you state?

Originally posted by GodshipForAll
No I'm saying the Mason owned Corporation, is managed and operated locally by a mason who owns the building sorry for not clarifying. Could be coincidence I suppose.

I see, now it is corporation, singular, as oppsed to corporationss. I will inquire again, what is the name of this supposed Mason-owned corporation?

Except I intended on promoting a free and open society without secret societies and associations.

Would you 'free and open society' also exclude college fraternities and sororities, The Elks, The Knights of Columbus and The Odd Fellows as well as the Masons?

What can average Masons do? The same that people whom are not affiliated with them.

Certainly. Not one Mason should say that are charity work makes us better then anyone else. We just enjoy doing these works with each other because we enjoy each others comraderie.

To be a member you must believe in your species first and foremost.

I am positive certain members of PETA and ELF will be very disappointed in this stipulation.

And sure Porch masons fund raise for their communities and oh ya so good...

I find that term, porch Masons, to be derisive and derrogatory, I do not think you have been addressed in a manner which justifies its use. I also think this attitude goes against the desire of 'unity' which professed above.

Also can anyone provide a link to the membership growth in say Canada?

Membership statistics can be found on this site.

Search for images of decorations adorning the building, maybe you can clarify what they are for me.

Post the images you are interested in learning more about and we will explain the ones that are employed in Masonry.

An altar is also used where important ceremonies take place....theres one in there.

I could not locate this Masonic altar. Can you please provide a link or picture of this structure.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by GodshipForAll
No I'm saying the Mason owned Corporation, is managed and operated locally by a mason who owns the building sorry for not clarifying. Could be coincidence I suppose.

I see, now it is corporation, singular, as oppsed to corporationss. I will inquire again, what is the name of this supposed Mason-owned corporation?

Ya singular because I'm referring to one example of the many in my town....
he runs and operates the Exxon gas station......they're take it easy can you sleep now..thanks for picking apart my #ty grammar you should be an english teacher very observant.... jesus.

Would you 'free and open society' also exclude college fraternities and sororities, The Elks, The Knights of Columbus and The Odd Fellows as well as the Masons?

yes, or you wouldn't be allowed restricted membership through gender, education and age etc. Why should people be restricted and any secrets withheld from everyone or anyone. I know todays world the powers of affiliations are surely going to withhold truths of their knowledge, proceedings and agendas from other affiliations. I'm thinking ultruistic in a fresh start without these "affiliations".......Where I'm getting at theres so many problems we need to dedicate our time in addressing locally then worldwide. There's perhaps a time and place for boys and girl clubs Sadly not now only in my opinion of course.

Certainly. Not one Mason should say that are charity work makes us better then anyone else. We just enjoy doing these works with each other because we enjoy each others comraderie.

Awesome for you, I just volunteer through city hall as a public citizen when clean up projects are held or fund raisers. I didn't imply that masons thought themselves better for doing their charities, I was implying you don't need to be one to accomplish the same goals.

I am positive certain members of PETA and ELF will be very disappointed in this stipulation.

If members didn't believe in themselves as a human being first and foremost how would they self-preserve to help out.( I can't eat this salad because some other animal needed it to live, wouldn't work without their own desire as a human to live first now, so they do put themselves first and foremost)
Besides PETA and ELF would go...not their desire to help just the organizations. It would simply fall under the Human society and be a branch dedicated to addressing that area of interest.

And sure Porch masons fund raise for their communities and oh ya so good...

I find that term, porch Masons, to be derisive and derrogatory, I do not think you have been addressed in a manner which justifies its use. I also think this attitude goes against the desire of 'unity' which professed above.

Yes maybe it is to you it's just me addressing the level of masons that most are. The ones with real power wouldn't be here on ATS. I don't like freemasons and am not here to persuade or influence them.... I'm going to dedicate a portion of my life advocating such groups be disbanded. We all have commonalities as living humans, fact. No matter where we are or what group we are in. I intend to comprehend and elaborate more on what we have in common in our basics needs and to emphasize unity through those. Start from scratch again because this world "plan" of ours is chaos...... and I'm believing purposefully.





[edit on 5-9-2008 by GodshipForAll]