Is the Shroud of Turin of the Last Grandmaster of the Knights Templar?

I love this theory! I have read about it in several books and it really does make a lot of sense.

Does anyone know any good info on it?

Please elaborate. I have no Idea what you're talking about, but I'd love to learn more. Let's hear it!

In the book "The Second Messiah", Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas theorize that the Shroud of Turin which was carbon dated to somewhere between 1260 - 1380, was actually of Jacques de Molay, the last Grand Master of the Knights Templar. He was tortured and crucified (but not killed by crucifiction) in 1307 as an example, to scare the remaining Knights. He was then executed.

He had been tortured and crucified in the same way Jesus supposedly had... The French King accused him and the other Knights of many crimes and tortured confessions out of them. The Knights then recanted on every account, except for the charge that they did not believe Jesus was the Messiah. They never denied this charge, because in my belief, they didn't believe he was. I have read info that suggests the Knights first excavation in Jeruselem of the Temple, may have uncovered the truth as to who Jesus really was.... sorry, I know I am rambling, but I love this stuff!

I read that the head and the body of the figure in the shroud were of different people. You can see this as there is no neck.

The theory being that the head is of John the Baptist, and the body of an unnamed knight.

That is rather creepy...can u give me links to this...u have got me interested now.

I remember seeing the Shroud on the Discovery Channel one day and it really kind of freaked me out a bit...somthing about it just gave me the shivers.

So...links please...wanna know more

Gryff

Here is a good link about the Shroud. I'm not sure if it pertains to the topic at hand, but it is good info either way.

www.shroud.com...

Mr. M

[Edited on 19-3-2004 by StarChild]

Originally posted by Netchicken
I read that the head and the body of the figure in the shroud were of different people. You can see this as there is no neck.

The theory being that the head is of John the Baptist, and the body of an unnamed knight.

Well, I hadn't heard this before. But I need clarification on something. Is the theory that they "don't match" (i.e. really are from two separate people) OR is it that the body had been beheaded?

The importance being that the torture of the Grand Master was to have included beheading if I recall correctly. So, if it is the latter, it could actually bear weight to the theory that the person in the shroud was the Grand Master.

[Edited on 3-19-2004 by Valhall]

I don't personally believe it's from 2 different people. Knight and Lomas' theory that it is the sheet that covered de Morlay while he was being healed (so they could execute a whole man) seems to be pretty reasonable.

I find it interesting that even after years of study, taking samples, and just about everything they can think of...science still doesn't know how the image was created. I recently watched a show on the Shroud as they did more testing. They are still in the dark as to how it was done.

I am facinated that with so many old world things, pyramids, shroud, stonehenge, maps of Antarctica, etc...that science still doesn't know many of the "hows". Advanced technology doesn't have to mean ray-guns....

I remember watching a show, that was trying to figure out what exactly the Shroud of Turin was. It was said that perhaps it was one of Leornardo Da Vinci's last jokes. Being again the church for a reason I forget. He would create sacreligious items that would have mocked the church at the time. Remember, he had powerful friends, so he could in fact do as he pleased. There was also a theory that the image was burned on, using a certain technology, that would photograph (outline) an image onto metal, and could eventually be carved out by the artist himself, later heated up to a burning point, and placed on cloth to brown but not char. This was also though to be Da Vinci, using his face, as the face on the Shroud. Also it seems that the body of the Shroud does not match, what I mean by this is that the body on the Shroud is not proportional. For example, the head is too small for the body, the hands are too big for the body, etc. these are just examples, so don't take them to heart. If only I could remember what the king's name, that wanted the shroud of Jesus. This was Da Vinci's friend, he was at his death bed. But anyways, there is said to be many other shrouds of Jesus Christ. I believe 2 or 3 more to be exact, and they all belonged to royalty. So anyhow, I hope this helps somewhat

The Second Messiah book goes into detail how the image could of been created. They even reproduced it I believe using some modern materials. But basically it is a photograph. Chemical reactions between the material and a sweating, dying man.

The other theory is that it was a great hoax painted by DaVinci and the face is his own. Just like the Mona Lisa is a composite of his own face. DaVinci suppsedly got off on this stuff. He had it in for organized religion. His paintings are loaded with John the Baptist references (the pointing finger) and other gestures. Most of them mean nothing today, but in 14th century Europe they meant everything I guess.



[Edited on 19-3-2004 by Achilles]

It could not have been painted as it has 3D elements within the actual image.

As far as the body distortion goes, they theorize that de Morlay was put into a cupped chair. So his body curved. When the material was taken off of him, it elongated everything.

"The importance being that the torture of the Grand Master was to have included beheading if I recall correctly. So, if it is the latter, it could actually bear weight to the theory that the person in the shroud was the Grand Master"

Jacques DeMolay died by burning at the stake. As he was burning he called out that King Phillip Le Bel and the Pope would join him within a year. They did.

This act makes it extremely unlikely that Jacques DeMolay was beheaded before he was burned at the stake.

Indeed Discovery Channel had a show on the shroud.
It claimed a possible link with Da Vinci and his hate-love relationship with the church and indeed suggested a last joke, a masterpiece.

He needed the church and there approval for example for his anatomical experiments. He saw the truth of humanity but still had to "respect" the people who poisoned the quest for knowledge.

When the church asked him to make a good relic like they did in those days, he made one, but using his picture instead of Jezus. A hidden message for a generation far to come.

Another hint towards Leonardo was for a fact that he was one of the few during his time who had the anatomical knowledge about crusifixion and especially the hands and the position of the (iron)nails. Most images and statues, even in churches you see depicted of this are very, very wrong.

They even replicated a shroud using a elemental photo technique, the result was promising. The two sides (co�rdinates) of the shroud combined make a 3d image of a person believed to be Da Vinci, indeed like with the Mona Lisa and Last Supper but then in deph.

I have never thought the shroud showed a beheaded man. I am looking at a high-res scan right now, that only shows the entire body was elongated... which could come from the body being in a cupped position, partially sitting up while the cloth was put over them. When the cloth/shroud was stretched out flat, it would distort the image it had recorded.

www.anomalies-unlimited.com...

I did an expository writing on the Shroud in College. Spent about 3 months researching every source I could find (which was a lot).

I think it is real. Whether it is Christ is up for grabs (I tend to think not.) But I do not believe it to be a hoax.

I don't think it was a created hoax... the hoax comes from them claiming it is of Jesus. The whole "Fire Damage" affecting the carbon dating was BS. They have not found that to be the case in other instances.

According to a book i read,
"the holy grail and the holy blood", The Shroud of Turin was created by the enemies of the Merovingians to mock their catholic roots, or was it the Knights of Templar... Its a most fascinating book im sure you'd find of great interest.

[Edited on 7-4-2004 by Sapphire]

I had read another book by those two. Some of it decent stuff, some crap. I think this Shroud of Turin theory is just them trying to further their freemason cause, which they link to the the templars.

Last time I was looking into the Shroud of Turin I thought researchers discovered traces of pollen only found in the middle east...and something about images of coins that came up over the 'subjects' eyes under certain photo/xray ninja technology.

The Shroud was once somewhere that caught on fire. (not the 'fire' that explains the Carbon dating, but more recently) Fireman were removing it, and the big container it's held in. What I found interesting was the fireman said the big container was as light as a feather, taking no effort to carry it out to safety.