Six dead in US shooting spree

No worse than hunting with Chenney.
I remember an actor holding up a rifle and exclaiming
"...From my cold dead hand"

a heated 4 digit combo - locked gun safe would help such theft problems.

I also agree that big pharma is the cause of most mass killings.

Originally posted by jackinthebox
Personally, I could give a crap less about the cops, but I do feel bad for the civilians who were killed. But something else strikes me.

That was a dumb comment, Jack. Notice that the cops involved in this were upstanding individuals or else they'd have dropped this guy in his tracks rather than allowing him to turn himself in. There are still many details to come out in this, but I gotta say the cops showed a hell of a lot more restraint than I ever would have if I was in the position of having a coleague gunned down & had the chance to place the man who did the deed into a coma or simply drop a few rounds into him.

You hurt your own arguments when you indescriminately categorize all cops as being the bad guys, especially when the story is about a situation in which they showed an amazing amount of restraint.

As for the OP, Washington is a concealed carry state. Our laws would not have permitted this man to legally own or use a firearm as he is a convicted fellon & mentally unstable. This is exactly the reason why banning firearms isn't the answer to combatting gun crime. The criminals will ALWAYS obtain the firearms illegally while the law abiding citizens have to jump through hoops to do things the legal way. It is also a great example of what is wrong with a revolving door penal system in which those who cannot be trusted are allowed to walk free. IMHO, if you can no longer be trusted to be free, you should be executed as a threat to society as a whole. No sense or reason to either risk further innocent lives by realesing these scum into the "check in regularly" parole system nor is there any reason to expect society to foot the bill to house them indefinitely.

The man's mother should be charged with aiding and abetting as she did not contact the authroities immediately when her derelict son was observed "entering neighbors' homes & other issues" instead of allowing him to carry on throughout the day, only to finally report his activities later in the afternoon.

Originally posted by jackinthebox
Personally, I could give a crap less about the cops, but I do feel bad for the civilians who were killed. But something else strikes me.

You dont give a crap about the cops that were putting their lives on the line to try and stop this wacko?

Shame on you, stop assuming cops are bad cops, maybe try talking to one properly and you may have an idea

Toughening up gun laws won't make a difference, nobody knows your carrying a concealed weapon till you blow someone away with it, so regardless of how harsh the law is the same things are gonna keep happening...

These kind of events have been steadily on the increase all over the world. For some unknown reason, probably because people are now continually near the edge of sanity because of all the buls**t that modern life throws in your face- new laws, cost of living,etc-people are flipping out and going on killing sprees.
If you're American please note, its not the guns that kill it's the person who pulls the trigger! Here in the UK guns aren't readily available (we still have our fair share of shootings) so everyone here who loses it ends up stabbing innocent people in the street.
We have to face up to it. . . the unfairness and stress of modern life takes its toll. We are not a happy society anymore, and when we snap someone- anyone- is going to pay!

Originally posted by jackinthebox
Personally, I could give a crap less about the cops, but I do feel bad for the civilians who were killed. But something else strikes me.

Why are all these wacko killers just calmly turning themselves in lately? There was the guy on the Greyhound, the guy who shot the kids out at the swimming hole, and a few others lately. All of them just turn and give up without a fight after doing these terrible things. Are we missing something here?

The cop who was shot was just doing his job. Think about what you wrote and then go and hang your head in shame you cretin.

In Australia we had a mass murder many years ago that was the catalyst for reforming our Gun laws. Now one must go through a rigorous testing process, and provide justified reasoning for owning a gun (ie: culling of pests, farming, security firms etc etc). Not only that but the gun must be locked in a specially certified safe which is checked on a regular basis by the Police.

Since the introduction of these laws I have not noticed a decrease in the amount of murders that occur, just in the way they occur. Yes, we still have many gun-related deaths despite the laws but people will always find a way, whether that be knife, rope, chainsaw etc etc

Tightening the gun laws will only make the killer have to think harder.

reply to post by OzWeatherman


i see nothing wrong with sound minded individuals having guns but the moment a nut uses 1 to commit a crime the government should lock them up and throw away the keys.
and if the gunman murders someone they should execute them pronto.
our judicial system is too lenient and releases too many repeat offenders.
when they are dead these gun crimes will stop.

Oh all you people boo-hooing for the cops. Number one, it's their job. They knew what they signed on for. Number two, if they were good at it, they wouldn't have gotten killed. Number three, the "good" cops should have turned in their shields a long time ago instead of bowing down to become a part of the gestapo police-state we live in today.

I feel a lot worse for the masses of victims of police brutality, injustices, and violations of our human rights. A lot more people die at the hands of the police than the other way around. Not to mention all the lives destroyed for no good reason at all.

But I'll throw you cop lovers a line. I do feel bad for the few moron cops who still really believe they are on the right side.

Good response jackinthebox!

reply to post by OzWeatherman


If you want to talk about guns, okay heres my thoughts.
You outlaw guns.. And guess what? All the criminals now own guns.
While the normal folk go around unprotected!

Making a law is only paper deep. Sure you can enforce it upon maybe a 3rd of those still holding guns. But that leaves alot of people still holding.
And not to mention how it goes aginst the right to bare arms.

Ive never had to carry a gun on me. Ive always been taught, you pull a gun you USE it! You dont carry a knife to a gun fight!

I dont belive making a law VS guns would do any good. I belive it would do more harm than good.
One of the main thing that keeps thugs and wanna be gansters out of my home is the thought in the back of their heads.
"Hey these people might have guns."
Thus that keeps some of the smarter robbers at bay. Just the thought that people can defend themselfs is worth alot.

Now take away the guns from normal folk.. And then the whole idea that people can defend themselfs melts away.
You will have more break ins. More robbery than ever before.
They will have nothing to fear.. Becasue they are the ones with the guns.
Not you or me.. We would be basicly defenceless.

reply to post by zysin5


You must understand, Ozweatherman and myself come from Australia and we have rather strict gun laws here. I personally remember a time when Australia had less strict gun laws (that was before a certain mass murder). I'm saying this because we have a rather unique perspective in that we remember both sides of the argument, having lived through both (I'm assuming Ozweatherman is old enough to remember the Port Arthur Massacre )

Not to mention he is not even american

reply to post by Kryties

And in your experience, has crime gone up or down? I know that over in London, they are now dealing with a severe rash of knife violence now without their guns.

All the stats I have seen show that an armed citizenry is the safest. Not just safe against crime, but also against extermination at the hands of their own leaders.



[edit on 9/3/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by jackinthebox


Not just knives Jack.

From the Guardian:

"Firearms: cheap, easy to get and on a street near you"

www.guardian.co.uk...

Bans are stupid. If banning anything ever worked we wouldn't have thieves murderers or crackheads. Guess what? We have murderous thieving crackheads o'plenty.

reply to post by jackinthebox


Quite honestly, without having looked at any figures, I do not think there has been a movement either way be it up or down. I still hear about someone(s) being killed here in Australia every night on the news. But now that you have tweaked my interest on that subject I'll take a looksie into it and see what I can find out.

Until then all I can say is that killers will always find a way to kill if their heart is set on it.




[edit on 3/9/2008 by Kryties]

reply to post by Kryties

Until then all I can say is that killers will always find a way to kill if their heart is set on it.

Unless I kill them first. Mutually Assured Destruction. Got us through the Cold War quite peacefully wouldn't you say?

EDIT to add: I'm glad you're deciding to take an interest instead of just jumping on a bandwagon.




[edit on 9/3/0808 by jackinthebox]

The lunatics will always find a weapon, yet without protection against the lunatic during a time in our history when so many changes are happening,
I just do not feel comfortable without protection, yet the very last thing on Gods green earth I would ever want to do is use it on another human being, lunatic or not.

Just because someone wears a badge does not mean that they can be trusted with my life or that of my family, I would hope so, but with all of the craziness surrounding the DNC and the RNC, the show of total disrespect for humans in general, I would want the field level if push came to shove.

I would rather go down trying to win than to just go down because the field was never level in the first place.

I am not comforted by the fact that in some countries farmers cannot carry weapons to protect their lands, and I do not believe that Americans will ever give up their right.

reply to post by jackinthebox

Unless I kill them first. Mutually Assured Destruction. Got us through the Cold War quite peacefully wouldn't you say?

Hehe that made me chuckle, well put Sir when you state it that way it doth maketh sense.

I'm glad you're deciding to take an interest instead of just jumping on a bandwagon.

I try never to jump on any bandwagon, I like to stand alone in my opinions and make decisions for myself based on a wide range of evidence.

[edit on 3/9/2008 by Kryties]

reply to post by burdman30ott6

Notice that the cops involved in this were upstanding individuals or else they'd have dropped this guy in his tracks rather than allowing him to turn himself in.

I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe that these were "upstanding" officers. Though I do agree that there is something suspicious about this guy just turning himself in, or even surviving for that matter.

I say the only reason that this guy is alive, is they knew they would never be able to cover it up if they killed him walking in the front door of the police station. As far as killing him on the street, I'm sure they tried very hard. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that they missed and hit a few innocent civilians and pinned the body count on this guy.

"I shot the Sherrif, but I did not shoot the Deputy."