False/half awakenings (spiritually speaking), getting through it.

A true Lightworker - is an energy consciousness intelligence. Physical is a creation.

You've probably heard the saying "we are all of the same pond"

You are a thought - the "pond" is all thought - all thought formed with the Creator.

You are Of the One.
------------------------------

Do you need to be taught - or just be thought - I am

Originally posted by RogerT

Having an experience of ego death is one thing. The pursuit of enlightenment, the 8 fold path, the Rig Veda, the chanting meditations etc etc, are an elitist trap designed to keep you looking up rather than sideways.

I agree. If you are seeking enlightenment "elsewhere" or think that "someone else has it," you are in for a long, sad, ride.

Originally posted by RogerT
One of the most bizarre things to me was the in-fighting amongst the south american shamans. Bickering like spoilt children, jealousies and firing etheric darts at each other around the globe. These are guys and gals that 'see the light' almost nightly.

I have never met a south American Shaman, but I did meet a Hindu guru, and a Buddhist Lama after my own experience. After what happened happened, I went looking to see if I could find anyone who could tell me what the heck happened to me. I had no real personal background in any religious tradition, I had been raised agnostic, and in an area where elements of Polytheism still remained, so although I was aware of many religions, I had no personal "belief" in any one. I was hoping, initially, to find that "leaders" of some of the religions would understand, or recognize what had happened. I knew very clearly it was a spiritual experience, (how can you not?) but I had no framework in which to make it make any kind of sense. Science simply doesnt recognize it other than a hallucination or a misfire of some neuron somewhere.

Anyway, my own experience of Gurus and Lamas is that they are, like the leaders of every religion I have since met, business people first and foremost. Bureaucrats. They follow a set of rules, they expect you to, they recognize hierarchy, and rank, and status, they get swept up in the adoration of their followers and their egos swell accordingly. If they have actually had the experience, and I have not met one that I could tell for certain had, they have been overrun by their ego and the specialness of it all.

So, I dont know what light the Shamans are seeing in your description, or the Gurus or the Lamas, but if their ego is dying in the experience, it sounds like it resurrects as soon as it is over. Lol. In fact, I think the greatest trap is not to get on the long arduous path to enlightenment of the everyday seeker, (Which is bad enough) but to have the experience of enlightenment itself and then have the Ego hijack it somehow. I think what saved me as an individual, (to the degree I have been saved at all) is that I was ignorant of what happened when it did. If my ego had had the information it needed to immediately grab that experience and "turn it into itself" I think I would have been doomed. (Remember, my ego wanted to be a corporate raider, not a nice ego) My first ego based thought was something like, "Ok, I have just merged into God. I hope I am not going crazy, because that was pretty cool, and it sure would suck to end up in a nuthouse." Had my Ego known how unusual it was, or that it was a sought after experience, or had any knowledge of religion as a personal belief, I probably would have thought, "It rocks to be ME, therefore I am special, chosen, etc." Which is what I think happens to a lot of "seekers" who stumble onto enlightenment.

The trick, if it can be called that, is to have the experience, and realize it has nothing to do with "you," your specific individual ego or identity. And be able to maintain that "knowing it is not you" (as an individual) while the ego struggles to grab onto it. I did nothing to "deserve" it. I know it could not have been about "me" or any "merit" I had. I didnt even practice any faith. (Though I was influenced by Christianity as all Westerners are to some degree, and the Hawaiian polytheism as I have always loved mythology) What happened was there was a moment in my life where my Ego got completely defeated by circumstances beyond my control, and "I" let go for a moment of trying to control my experience/life. When I did, the experience happened to me. It flooded in. It could happen to anyone whose ego would get out of the way. Unfortunately, TRYING to make your ego get out of the way is an act of Ego itself. Totally self defeating. Koans, Meditation, devout worship, these are all other ways of getting someone to the state of weakened Ego, (without their realizing what is happening and bypassing the "trying" part) so that the "crack" in the Ego can occur. It just so happens that there are "spontaneous" ways, suffering, psychological or physical, that can take you there serendipitously.

Anyway, thats my long and probably more-than-you-cared-to-hear analysis of enlightenment, In case you cant tell, I totally want to hear other people's experience of enlightenment, so that I can continue my sorting
out of the factors involved. The historical texts have been "added" to by devout followers, and the "Enlightened ones" deified, so although I can see the "core" experience, I cannot always see the factors that led to it, nor do any of the traditions tell of the struggle with the ego that follows. (They cant, it would ruin the deification) Well, Christianity does a little, when Jesus struggles with "Satan."

I have been fortunate enough to "bump" into one or two others who have had the experience, but when they hear I have had it too, they clam up. (So far, everyone I have met that I am certain had the experience lost the ego battle and refuse to acknowledge "others" have had it too, if "others" have it, you cant be "the chosen one" now can you?) Some, like Eckhart Tolle, and a few others alive, I believe DID have the experience, AND have not lost the ego battle, but they are famous and inaccessible to me, so I cannot ask them questions.

So, if anyone has anything they want to add to my survey of the experience, I would LOVE to hear it. U2U me if it is too personal to share on the boards where you can be bashed.

Waiting for something to happen will put you right back in the vicious circle of thought. Break free. Moment of now.

Running across this thread tonite may be the most significant thing I've read in the last forty years on this planet. I'm 58 and began asking the question. Who am I and what am I doing here, in my teens, when I couldn't understand how we could be so cruel to each other and at the same time so sublime.
I didn't stop to count the number of different posters to this thread but to each one of you thank you. I find myself coming to tears. Each one of you in your own way has more genuine Truth than most of the "Spiritual Teachings and Teachers" of the past AGE. Reading this thread has renewed my optamism just a little and causes me to entertain the thought that things might just turn out alright on this silly Ball O Wax.
To the one who said (Be in a state of meditation all ways) Cudos... To the person who said check out your investments, again Cudos..
If you find yourself doing anything in this life for any other reason than just for the Love of it, be suspisious of yourself. Play hard and Laugh Lots. Peace be with you all.Text

Well of course it is impossible to compare experiences like this and say they are the same, we can merely say they kinda sound the same.

My guess is that you had a spontaneous '___' experience. Everyone has at least 2, during birth and death. Many people have them 'by chance' during their lifetime, usually triggered by some traumatic, dramatic event, similar to what you described. Others seem to have them for no apparent reason at all.

You can check this out by taking some form of '___' in sufficient quantities to see if the experience repeats itself.

Agree with you totally on the guru comments. IME the Shamans are quite different from the Buddhists and the Indian Gurus though, but the ego is always there in some form or other.

It sounds like you have got it sorted for the most part, but if you are still interested in getting feedback, I'd recommend asking the plants, not the humans. They'll show you yourself, warts and all - especially the warts

If your goal is truly to know yourself, then I can't think of a better course of action than to let aya peel off the onion layers

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

I think it is enough that you are doing what you are doing, IF, you are not sitting completely still.

Move through the world, doing your normal daily activities. Heed the calls for you. Your neighbor is at the door? Answer it. You need to go to the store? Go. The only thing to do differently is BE there. Whatsoever you do, do it with as much of your Self as you can bring to bear in the moment. Bring your Awareness to whatever you are doing. Be it fully, rather than think about it. It is hard enough practice, as I am sure you know. It is like a meditation that does not have the luxury of sitting still and saying Om. Bring that meditative stillness of the mind to the most mundane things.

I remember a saying, though I cannot recall who said it, it is easy to be enlightened up in a cave, sitting in meditation for hours a day. Moving through the world in that same "space" is much, much harder.

What you are meant to do next will show up, or circumstances will present it to you. When the time is right.

I too, have been in that "now what do I do?" frame of mind, and still find it here and there, and the answer I was given was, "learn to deal with uncertainty."

The Ego wants to know, it NEEDS to know. You see it in those threads you mention. "I KNOW what the answer is.... I KNOW what it looks like inside the sun.... I KNOW the answers to all your questions......"

As Sonya said, it is Ego that has gotten hold of the toy of "enlightenment." Nothing more.

The "Self," that which has been awakened, does not need to know. It is intelligence without a plan, intelligence that can make do, and better than make do, that can make perfection out of "what is" completely in the moment.

That feeling of "what do I do?" is Ego. It is spinning its wheels, it has lost its firm grip on you, and it isnt kicking and screaming about it anymore, but it doesnt know how to just relax and deal with things in the Now, the absolute present. It is just more practice in Awareness. The Ego still wants to run ahead in time. It is totally fine, it isnt something to be overcome, or stopped, it is just something to See and be Aware of when it arises. Remind yourself that Now is the time. For whatever it is that you need to do next. No thing is a small or insignificant thing when it is done with Love and Awareness.

Thanks for the reply. Just be aware and it doesn't really matter where you are. And i'm not talking about 'enlightenment' perse btw, just the nagging feeling that there is more about this reality that we are not being told, the fumbling around in the semi-dark part. The ego can be sneaky but i have no wish to eliminate it from the process, it belongs to me, you don't remove a horn form a car because of the sound it makes, you just don't use it that often.

Anyway, thanks again for the lively discussion here, great

reply to post by RogerT



I'm still reading, on page 2, but I have to get this out now, while its floating around my head, otherwise I may forget it.

Illusionsaregrander, I totally agree with your idea of ego:

"It is totally fine, it isnt something to be overcome, or stopped, it is just something to See and be Aware of when it arises."

Exactly, I saw people talk about banishing their ego, seeing it as something to be cast out or destroyed and I realised, we need the ego, it is a balance, rather than cast it out or ignore it, listen to it. Understand it for what it is and work around it, for instance if you think:

"Enlightenment would be so cool, flying around with super powers..."

Identify it as ego and move on, don't forget about it or ignore it, as it will help you recognize ego, in it's various forms.

"The "Self," that which has been awakened, does not need to know."

"OK, if these are immutable laws which remain constant, I'll go with what you're saying - makes a lot of sense. However, my feelings are that the only constant is change, and all laws are only temporary, especially those that operate in and around 3D."

IMO, You have your answer there, the laws states are constant, yet they constantly change their form. It's still there, but may be manifesting itself differently for you, in a way, you have not noticed.

RogerT-

"(and embracing the dark - just thought I'd throw that one in there for luck)"

You gave me a moment of clarity with this statement and I thank you (star for you). I sometimes consider knowledge as light and ignorance as darkness and with what you said, it made me realise, that we know nothing, true ignorance. We spend our lives thinking that from a child, to an adult, we gain wisdom, but we merely build walls up around ourselves as it's just too big for us to handle.

We Masquerade ignorance as knowledge and get them confused, we have ideas about the universe and world we live in and seek definitive proof for these ideas, but it doesn't work like that, it changes on so many levels that we can't comprehend, as do we.

I sometime wonder, what it would be like to be a child again, without these walls around them, no pre-concieved notions on how everything is/was/will be. they see the world for what it truly is, a mystery, unfothomable awe as to what this, all this, really is, a search for questions rather than answers.

Thanks, great thread, S+F

EMM

[edit on 2-9-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
Anyway, thats my long and probably more-than-you-cared-to-hear analysis of enlightenment, In case you cant tell, I totally want to hear other people's experience of enlightenment, so that I can continue my sorting out of the factors involved.

Thanks for sharing that! And you are right, I don’t think many have had it and even fewer will talk about it. Though I think some found it via drugs and that may limit their ability or desire to discuss it.

Anyways, my story. I never questioned if God existed just as I never questioned whether the sun existed. It was a given. No religious background, though as a child if I got in trouble (messy room or whatever) my mom’s common threat was “I will make you go to church every Sunday!" She is an ex-catholic and went to a non-denominational embrace all faiths sort of church. Another sister found a guru in india and became a strict vegetarian. A best friend in high school was a devout Christian. None of it moved me in the slightest, well other than I learned to see Christians as very annoying.

Always had an interest in spirituality and read various books since I was a teenager, taking bits and pieces from each that I liked. I never followed the philosophy of any one person because I am a bit of a misanthrope and as such have no desire to worship people or the belief systems of any individual people. I simply read various things and if something sounded “true” I reflected on it, and the stuff that sounded suspicious I ignored.

Anyways, when “it” happened the only thing different was that I was going to a weekly meditation class, lightweight normal stuff, opening chakras and the like. Nothing heavy duty but I was probably a bit more focused on meditating around that time.

I was driving down highway 85 going to a marble dealer south of Atlanta when “it hit”. The light went on and it was astounding! I remember it was as if everything had a neon glow, but I know it didn’t actually appear that way, my mind just recalls that effect. Suddenly everything was God! I knew immediately what it was, and I thought wow…I am seeing the universe as a reflection in the mind of God!

Everything suddenly was divinely beautiful. Everything. The trucks, the weeds, the overpasses. Every song on the radio was a divine expression from the one mind. I don’t remember a lot of the specifics that day, but I remember I ended up driving downtown, I remember seeing various sundry types, drug addicts and homeless people in Atlanta, and thinking “well normally I would make sure my car doors were locked and my .38 was handy but not now…now I see everyone and everything as divine and utterly beautiful!”. I knew exactly what was happening, and I made sure to reflect on different issues, like the environment and the destruction of wildlife which is an issue that bothers me, to see how the perception differed from my usual reality. I had a totally different take on everything, suddenly I realized how pointless it was to worry about the world and how things change, because this was all a fantasy and it could all change in a second! There was no reason to worry about anything! It was all a flicker in Gods mind, God created it, God could change it in a heartbeat, and for me to worry about saving things or preventing change was the ultimate in silliness!

I have never experienced that level of clarity since. I have seen bits and pieces of it, but never to such an overwhelming degree. I know what the true reality is now, and I never forget that this is an illusion, and I have faced death and realize I have absolutely no fear, but I do have attachments here and worry about them to a fair extent. I am also still pretty much a misanthrope in many ways, and plenty judgemental, but see now I realize that those thoughts are Gods thoughts, not mine, so I don’t feel guilty about it. LOL.

I will say I don’t think the experience is “earned”. Some get it for no reason, some pray and meditate for a lifetime and never catch a glimpse. I feel blessed to have seen it, but I know it has nothing to do with me being “special” because I have known too many others that have tried so very hard to no avail.

Plus most "spiritual" people I have known were such uptight goody two shoes. They believe all sorts of things will "lower their energy", they don't drink, smoke, eat meat, watch violent movies, have sex with strangers, etc... I have always done those things, often to excess, okay I do feel guilty about eating meat but I do not believe the new age hooey that dictates "clean living" as the path to enlightenment. Sheesh part of awakening is not fearing death, so I don't see the point in being so uptight about minor health risks.

One thing for sure though, it did not make me feel like a chosen one, a teacher, any of that. I never leaned that way to begin with, but after that experience, after seeing everything as a creation in the mind of god, believing that *I* could or should change things would be unthinkable!


[edit on 2-9-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by Sonya610
Plus most "spiritual" people I have known were such uptight goody two shoes. They believe all sorts of things will "lower their energy", they don't drink, smoke, eat meat, watch violent movies, have sex with strangers, etc... I have always done those things, often to excess, okay I do feel guilty about eating meat but I do not believe the new age hooey that dictates "clean living" as the path to enlightenment. Sheesh part of awakening is not fearing death, so I don't see the point in being so uptight about minor health risks.

That is something that really bugs me. True, i do believe/know that there is more than this shared illusion we call reality and everything is a part of the whole on more than one level but transforming myself in a tweed-waring veganist while meditating 10 times a day is pretty much something i'm passing on. If it is all a ride anyway there is no point in stressing over it on a more esoteric level. But it would be a shame if we cannot bring this experience to a nice and pleasant one for everyone.

reply to post by Harman


Good topic. S&F

I am with you and I seem to be feverishly pounding away at that snooze button. Everytime I even feel close to "getting it", I find myself 2 steps back and buried in distraction.

It is frustrating that is for sure. I will read the book in your sig next. I need to get through VALIS first though.

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by Harman

 

Good topic. S&F

I am with you and I seem to be feverishly pounding away at that snooze button. Everytime I even feel close to "getting it", I find myself 2 steps back and buried in distraction.

It is frustrating that is for sure.

Yup, it is pretty frustrating but don't let it get you down

I will read the book in your sig next. I need to get through VALIS first though.

Let me know what you think about it. It's healthy to get a second opinion on these things.

KNOW THYSELF, AND YOU'LL KNOW THE UNIVERSE


=) S&F! I am working, and when there is more time I will reply.

I rather enjoy these threads. I feel all warm and tingly. Thank you!

What or who is S&F?

Second line so this post will be accepted.

reply to post by Sonya610


Sorry. it is short for "Starred and Flagged". I will stop abbreviating in the future.

EGO - these Enlightened ones may seem to have a superior ego - - but in fact it is that they are superior. They are re-incarnated souls from a higher plain.

It's similar to if you had a highly educated person working in a low intelligent setting. One would have to dumb themselves down a bit to work effectively with those of less learning and ability.

An air of superiority can be an indicator of one who has been returned to this world to help others evolve spiritually. Although it can be hard to hide - a true enlightened one would keep it in check.

*sips coffee*
Sorry, it was "starred and flagged."

How is everyone on this fine day?

I was just ranting with my lovely girlfriend about humans and their stubbornness, selfishness and ignorance, and how I wish there were more threads like this, and how I did not think I could take it anymore, and then here you are. As always, I am never let down. I thank you again.

So, what about this whole awakening thing? I feel that I am at least on the journey or somewhere in between, and that for me it was realizing the truth. I believe it started out with peak oil, religion, aliens, and NWO in 95. Then later on it was a NDE, several OOBE and then cosmic consciousness and awareness. I have always noticed something, but I did not know what that something was. I asked everyone around, and no one person had the answer. It took me 22 years to realize that it does not take 22 years to awake.

To be awakened is to see clearly, or at least this is what I think.

Originally posted by awakened sleeper
*sips coffee*
Sorry, it was "starred and flagged."

I was just ranting with my lovely girlfriend about humans and their stubbornness, selfishness and ignorance, and how I wish there were more threads like this, and how I did not think I could take it anymore, and then here you are. As always, I am never let down. I thank you again.

LOL…I started thinking S&F was some sort of pet name referring to a poster, or maybe it was some new metaphysical term I had not heard of. Even became suspicious that it was some new age culty thing!

And I agree, this thread is great. The flow and exchange of viewpoints is much needed in my world right now.

Originally posted by Annee It's similar to if you had a highly educated person working in a low intelligent setting. One would have to dumb themselves down a bit to work effectively with those of less learning and ability.

Annee, that is great about the superior ones. I am very happy for them! Reminds me of a line from Devils Rejects: “I love famous people! They're even better than the real thing!”


[edit on 2-9-2008 by Sonya610]

I consider myself to be someone who has awoken to as full a degree I could expect without moving to the wilderness.

The thing with "waking up" is that after it happens participating in anything that involves the false reality seems grueling, hypocritical and a compromise.

In fact I think in certain instances being woken up too far can lead to a more unenlightened state and possible depression.

Originally posted by jenkwater
I consider myself to be someone who has awoken to as full a degree I could expect without moving to the wilderness.

I am right there with you. I very badly wish to get away from the currency systems, and would love to live in the wilderness, however I am afraid that I cannot live without the internet.

Originally posted by jenkwater
The thing with "waking up" is that after it happens participating in anything that involves the false reality seems grueling, hypocritical and a compromise.

Indeed, and it is not easy. To watch your family and loved ones participate in lies and illusion, and you cannot tell them anything for they will not comprehend. I have tried all to many times.

Originally posted by jenkwater
In fact I think in certain instances being woken up too far can lead to a more unenlightened state and possible depression.

When it is to much to handle, and you seize up and give in, then yes. Its very discomforting, and I have been in this state for some time now, however it is threads like these that cheer me up. We are not alone, and for every malevolent act there is an equal benevolent one.

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by Harman

 

Good topic. S&F

I am with you and I seem to be feverishly pounding away at that snooze button. Everytime I even feel close to "getting it", I find myself 2 steps back and buried in distraction.

It is frustrating that is for sure. I will read the book in your sig next. I need to get through VALIS first though.

I'm not sure I completely understand the concept - what everyone agrees is an "awakening"

I'm late to this party - but from what I gather - through reading the threads - and whatever else I can find "out there" - it's different for everyone - but in one significant way exactly the same - your awareness shifts

you sense something you didn't before - even if you can't identify it, you see things differently - even if you can't define the difference

and you're driven to figure out what it means

seems to me - you're already there

it's not about becoming somehow greater

it's about seeing a better way - shaking off complacency - creating something better

wanting to be better

it's not new - although, I can't say for certain that what people are talking about now isn't in some way completely original - and I'm not saying that it doesn't involve the mystical - the spiritual

but many important movements on this planet involved an awakening - Gandhi comes to mind

people began to see what they didn't see before - and that change continues to this day

it doesn't seem as magical when it becomes a part of history - and they teach it in school

and it may seem too mundane for some - but what Gandhi started was pure magic

I can see all the arguments forming - this could turn into an ego driven/elitist diatribe - who's better than who

but if it means that the people who are making the claim that this is somehow about being special - I would suggest that it's a very egalitarian form of "specialness"

it's not a superpower - we are all just as human - and completely fallible

so many people are talking about this now - as a shared experience - it does seem significant

seems likely something new is coming our way - whether it comes from within or without