Coin left behind on Mars?

reply to post by Enigma Publius


I've been looking at the Mars Rover images, and I decided that the best way to get data from them is to actually look at the EDR datasets, which are 12-bit versions of the images, with additional sensor information and no JPEG encoding (which degrades the quality). This is essential for getting information such as exposure time (for more accurate color compositing).

So, how to tell if the images are corrupt or modified? Well, handily, each image contains a 'checksum', which is a number that would change if the image were edited. Usually, checksum numbers are long, 10 digits or so (32-bit is common).

But, NASA has provided the checksums in 'scientific notation'. From one of their ".IMG" files (from which the JPEGs everyone looks at are created):

...PROPERTY='IMAGE_DATA' CHECKSUM=1.64717e+08 FIRST_LINE=1...

Source

Of course, this renders the checksum data entirely useless. , NASA.

reply to post by Ian McLean



hey that IS interesting. Thanks for that! i had no idea; that is yet another reason why we should be very po'ed at nasa...we pay for those images people! It is easier for people to see image tampering than it is for people to see something amazing and actually believe it is a building on mars...we need to focus more on the image tampering issue, it will be the first step towards the truth.

What I find interesting if not a bit puzzling is everyone jumping to the conclusion that if this object is alien and artificial in nature then it MUST be a coin. Why does it have to be a coin? It could be a data storage device, a piece of electronic or electrical equipment, a bottle cap, a discarded campaign button (vote for Qzgrgalgjajl), a clothing button or anything else that's small and round and coin-sized.

Alas, it's probably a tool mark from the rover.

Ever notice how you could have NEVER been to Chuck E Cheese....Never known a soul that has...But find a arcade token under your couch. One never knows

Is it possible it is a core sample, or a piece of a core sample, that was dropped by the rover?

If any of you have ever used a hole saw... the piece of wood stuck in the hole saw after you finish cutting could be how the core samples (and the object on the ground in the photo) may look.

Sorry if this was mentioned already... I didn't have time to read all 5 pages of the thread.

Originally posted by craig732
I didn't have time to read all 5 pages of the thread.

You better stay away from the big threads then

No its not a core sample or 'cut out' as the RAT is an abrasive tool... It has many spinning heads that grind a hole and leave only dust...

But good call

Originally posted by sos37
Alas, it's probably a tool mark from the rover.

Nope the other two circles on the image are from the RAT... the Rover only makes one size hole... The 'round disk like object' is too small

[edit on 2-9-2008 by zorgon]

Originally posted by easynow
you got that in color ?

No sorry seems the color ones are not complete yet past sol 1100 or there abouts. Time to write a letter

Hey ArMaP your pics are down... server issues?

reply to post by Invigorant


i think its a coin dropped by the people we have in mars , as john lear said once, that we got people over there that maintains our robots, which they wipe dust off the robot panels

reply to post by zorgon


Here ya go. Colorized from:

2P234663466EFFATF3P2561L2C1.IMG
2P234663487EFFATF3P2561L3C1.IMG
2P234663518EFFATF3P2561L4C1.IMG
2P234663551EFFATF3P2561L5C1.IMG
2P234663574EFFATF3P2561L6C1.IMG
2P234663600EFFATF3P2561L7C1.IMG



And the section of the image mentioned in the OP (the one that, IMHO, actually does look round):



Edit: Colors in these images should not be considered 'accurate' -- I'm just playing around with my own radiometric adjustment and spectral interpolation routines... and the implementation is still very preliminary.


[edit on 2-9-2008 by Ian McLean]

Coins are often used to give scale.
If it was the moon ... maybe , but mars ?

A substantial proportion of the threads on ATS involve Mars photos .
Mars it seems , is a very busy place .

This is Mr Skippers work and find. I ask you to give a reference to his input.

reply to post by Ian McLean


I suppose you did not noticed the "OBJECT" section of the IMG file.

OBJECT = IMAGE
     INTERCHANGE_FORMAT = BINARY
     LINES = 64
     LINE_SAMPLES = 64
     SAMPLE_TYPE = MSB_INTEGER
     SAMPLE_BITS = 16
     BANDS = 1
     BAND_STORAGE_TYPE = BAND_SEQUENTIAL
     CHECKSUM = 6694660
     FIRST_LINE = 1
     FIRST_LINE_SAMPLE = 1
     INVALID_CONSTANT = 4095
     MAXIMUM = 2561
     MEAN = 1634.438476562500
     MEDIAN = 1925.000
     MINIMUM = 546
     MISSING_CONSTANT = 0
     SAMPLE_BIT_MASK = 2#0000111111111111#
     STANDARD_DEVIATION = 670.6318
END_OBJECT = IMAGE

reply to post by ArMaP


Yes. However, from my non-rigorous review, it seems like there's three sections in the IMG files -- the LF-delimited header section (which I shall arbitrarily call the 'HEADER'), the IMAGE_HEADER section (space delimited), and the IMAGE section. I'd guess that at some point in the data-chain, the data consists entirely of the IMAGE_HEADER and IMAGE sections, then the HEADER section is later prepended during indexing and archiving.

So, the checksum in the IMAGE_HEADER (which is the insufficient one) covers the data in the IMAGE section only, and checksums in the HEADER section (one of which you quoted) are later added and cover the data in the IMAGE_HEADER and IMAGE sections.

My point is, if the IMAGE section is corrupted before the archiving HEADER section is added, the checksum there may well be correct, but without a usable checksum in the IMAGE_HEADER section, there's no way to detect such corruption.

Thanks, glad to know I'm not the only one looking at source data!

Edit: Correcting plurality -- it seems the checksums added in the initial section are per-section, not aggregated

[edit on 2-9-2008 by Ian McLean]

Originally posted by Invigorant
Is the most logical conclusion really a coin here guys? I mean, there can't be a trillion more logical things that it possible could be? Like maybe rover tool marks or something?
(shortened)
If I had to bet, I would say maybe tool marks. If I didn't have to bet, I would say it is a fossilized alien footprint (they do not require toes for balance due to their upper body configuration and weight distributions...shame they are extinct now....) There, do I fit in now?

Ok, i am not a "jump to conclusions" sort of guy. So, Invigorant, lets say it isn't a coin. Look at the dirt around it. Yeah, Dust storms could so that. Then again, if it was a tool mark; one would assume the tool would remove, not add, circular impressions. Foot print? Again, it would be an impression not raised.

So, yes, could be many other things - tool marks of rover or foot print - i doubt it.

It is, however, something extraordinary.

[edit on 2/9/2008 by shearder]

Originally posted by Ian McLean
Thanks, glad to know I'm not the only one looking at source data!

You are not the only one, but most people do not go to the "trouble" of looking at anything that is not a higly compressed JPEG...

NASAView shows the correct checksum value for the IMG files.

I cant say I know for sure what it is, but it does look out of place, I seriously doubt it is a coin however. I dont know how to do all the fancy color enhancements and image adjustments that some of are you can do, I just know that if the images are indeed of Mars ( I mean how can one REALLy know what we are being shown..) then the "coin" shown is more than likley not a manufactured object, just an oddly shaped thing in the dirt..For me it would take more than just a debateable image from an unknown location for me to jump to the conclusion ther was or is life on mars..( I really want there to be Im just not so easily persuaded by fuzzy images and questionable locales) . SOmeone please show me some difinative proof.

Originally posted by alexias
Very good find, although... what are the odds that it is a part of the rover?

I guess now I know where the tooth fairy thought my pillow was all those times...

Flag from me!

perhaps thats where the tooth fairy comes from

reply to post by constantwonder


well i said it "looks" like a coin, but it also looks like it could be some sort of ring too? could be a metal piece from the robot as well... i really don't know, but it does have the shape of a coin, and it doesn't look like a concave drill hole - it's definitely protruding from the surface...

and nothing in nature makes that perfect of a circle on a rock like that. i realize nature's natural tendency is to move in a circular motion, but that just looks artificial to me.

Why are yoz guys flagged that thread?? This is old news. It has been posted so often here.

Or like some smart a..es would say: USE THE SEARCH BUTTON!

reply to post by duffster


where was the 'joke' in that sentence, fapmaster?