Using Government databases to verify age on regular websites *warning*

reply to post by scientist


Your whole thread is based on assumption. You are looking for corruption in everything and when you do that, you will see it even when it is not really there. Even if the government was behind the set up of the site, how does that affect you personally? How is that imposing on YOUR rights? If the site felt it was an imposition, they could have taken it up with the government, but apparently they were fine with it (that is assuming the idea wasn't theirs, which I am betting it was so that they could protect their content).

You are grasping at something that is not your right to grasp at. It is not your site. It is not your content on that site. The site and content is not your "property." If you believe in the constitution as it was originally intended, how can you argue this?



Edited : change to the 2nd sentence so the intent won't be manipulated

[edit on 2-9-2008 by justamomma]

Originally posted by ST SIR 86
so what do adults from other countries do for the restricted site or the USA the only country in the world?

well, i'm from the UK, put in a false name and age, and then put 90210 (the only zip code i know :-))...and it worked.

I put in fake information and it worked fine for me.

There doesn't need to be any nefarious government involvement for the site in question to work the way it does. The Department of Motor Vehicle (DMV) registration and license databases are available for a relatively small fee (for the media and manpower) to any member of the public who wants them. The databases are usually updated quarterly and, depending on the state, can be purchased via a subscription plan that includes all updates for a period.

My impression is that a lot of people think of the information given to a DMV as classified Top Secret or something similar. The information in the possession of the DMV is less protected by law than the contents of your garbage. The DMVs regularly sell peoples' information to corporations for whatever purposes they can imagine.

Similar databases are available from other public and quasi-public entities. Ever look up something in an online phone book? That is simply another purchasable database.

The last time I checked, the post office still sells a database of the names of current property owners along with addresses and lot information. Where do you think Google or Microsoft gets the data necessary to their address to geography look-ups?

Where do we want to draw a line in the sand regarding access to our private information? Why is it OK for one company to be able to identify your house on a map to within a few hundred feet but it is a sin for another company to look-up your birthday?

Jon

scary indeed. Lao Tzu scientist? I wish more scientists would study the tao te ching! 'spcially physicists. But have you noticed the targeted advertising that follows you from website to website? except when you type in reptillian chupacabra area 51 guacamole into youtube. they have no idea what to sell you then!

reply to post by scientist


Personally, your post only made me think one thing: Waste of time.

Not to be misleading, but, I mean that site is really just a waste of time. It has already been pointed out that the videos can be found in other places without divulging your personal information. On another note, IF I were a minor, trying to access the site, and it only asked for name, age, and address... I'd probably immediately type in the 'rents info. Upon checking the link to the site, and returning here, I noticed a lot of people calling it a 'scam', did they ask for any TRULY personal information (Ie. your SS / SIN #) ??

No. No they didn't.

I wouldn't call it a scam. Just, as I initially stated, a waste of time.

J

I felt the need to weigh in on this one...

I would have to say that its a bad idea on many levels, and I agree with a lot of what has been said here... BUT:

This is basically pointless... It asks for a legit name, address, and DOB correct? Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Whats keeping little Johnny from typing in his dads name, address, and DOB? This is all info that every child over the age of 8 should have... I know I did.

I don't see how this deters any online activity whatsoever, since the information requested is readily available to minors already.

Please: to all those preaching how great an idea this is... Explain to me how it deters little johnny from seeing stuff?

reply to post by XTexan


I never claimed that it would deter a child. I just said that it is a misunderstanding of your freedoms to say that this is an imposition on your personal rights and that the site shouldn't have such a set up as the one being discussed. It isn't our site and therefore we don't have a say so. To bitch that this is an invasion of your privacy when you don't HAVE to log in or to say that it shouldn't be up for the reasons you cited is pointless because it isn't our call to make on how the site owners run their site.

If it was your site, you would want to run it your way.. would you not?

reply to post by justamomma


Very true, any website is basically "private property" and the owners can enact just about any "house rules" that they wish. And assuming that this database that they are checking your info against is a public database then there aren't technically in the wrong.

My "privacy" issue concerns sending my ID info across non-secured, non-encrypted channels. I also have issues as to if this info is logged. I know most people's IP address is logged anyways, and if your truely worried, as I can be sometimes, you can use software and hardware to mask that info. But when I go into a seedy store to browse, my ID is checked but its not logged, this would remove that anonymity from websites. How would you feel if you had to fill one out to access this site? or other conspiracy sites? or perhaps activist websites?

My point is that there is a lot of potential for abuse, and since this won't prevent little johnny from seeing the nudies, I don't see a point in it.

That being said, it is the websites right to put whatever they want on their site, but its also our right to not click on that site or their sponsers so that will be my solution to it.

Originally posted by geek101

Originally posted by ST SIR 86
so what do adults from other countries do for the restricted site or the USA the only country in the world?

well, i'm from the UK, put in a false name and age, and then put 90210 (the only zip code i know :-))...and it worked.

you know, I just tried putting in false information and it went through. It seems that someone has changed the script for the site, since I originally posted it!

Seriously, this is the message that used to come up if you put in false information:



others in this post can attest that it was in fact checking the information supplied... but now it's not. I'm assuming the web developers traced some of their site traffic back to this thread, and commented out a few lines of code.

Yes, that is a grand assumption, however the only one that really makes any sense, seeing as how I tried getting into that site the other day using all types of false info to no avail.

[edit on 3-9-2008 by scientist]

reply to post by XTexan


You asked me how I would feel if I had to enter my personal information to get into this site. Well, my answer would be that if I had a problem with it, then I wouldn't get on this site. It is a simple concept really, but so many on this site have let fear overrule their logic.

Actually, I find that ironic since so many will make fun of "sheeple" for exchanging their freedoms for security. Pretty much both "herds" (the conspiracy theorists and the major public) have in essence let fear rule their lives.

reply to post by justamomma


I agree with you on that, I have issues giving personal info to anyone whom I know nothing about... even if it was ATS...

I try not to live my life in fear, but I do live my life with the knowledge that throughout history every government has screwed over its people at one time or another, some going to much farther lengths than others.

By the way, nice to chat with you. I've seen a lot of your posts and you seem very respectfull.

Originally posted by XTexan
reply to post by justamomma

 

I agree with you on that, I have issues giving personal info to anyone whom I know nothing about... even if it was ATS...

I try not to live my life in fear, but I do live my life with the knowledge that throughout history every government has screwed over its people at one time or another, some going to much farther lengths than others.

By the way, nice to chat with you. I've seen a lot of your posts and you seem very respectfull.

I wouldn't randomly start submitting personal information either. That is a choice I make and I don't make it begrudgingly, but rather gratefully considering that I have the right to make that choice.

And thank you. I am not so sure others will share your sentiment, but it is appreciated

It's a bit annoying for us not living in the USA, we can't access sites using this system unless we submit false info

Originally posted by justamomma
Well, my answer would be that if I had a problem with it, then I wouldn't get on this site. It is a simple concept really, but so many on this site have let fear overrule their logic.

i know you were responding directly to xtexan but you've made this point repeatedly. i would like to put forward an extrapolation.

this could well be a government pilot, if it is seen to work it is extended to allow any site that wishes to use it. shortly thereafter there will an astroturf outcry about children viewing unsuitable websites, at which point the government states that websites are legally responsible for age verification and seeing as this particular form of age verification is the only one they deem reliable, this is the only form of verification that is deemed court admissible.

all websites must use this system now, even though it it easy to by-pass. those that feel they are doing wrong can and will bypass the system, either by using a proxy to appear as if their IP is from outside the US or by entering false data. however, now doing these things leaves enough suspicion to validate a warrant to track your online behaviour through your ISP.

it is only the law abiding people, who feel they have nothing to fear, that can be normally tracked. if it is only useable to track those people it is obviously aimed at those people.

given the past performance of the gov. of the us this doesn't seem implausible, but if these series of events were to unfold, i'm curious to know, at which point would you feel this has become an issue?

Actually, I find that ironic since so many will make fun of "sheeple" for exchanging their freedoms for security. Pretty much both "herds" (the conspiracy theorists and the major public) have in essence let fear rule their lives.

the difference is, my paranoia doesn't cost anything for anyone besides me, the paranoia of the sheeple cost freedoms for everyone. its an easier task to lose a freedom than to gain one.

reply to post by pieman


Just wanted to second your concern of the involvement of big brother here. The potential for abuse with this is very large IMHO.

Actually, I find that ironic since so many will make fun of "sheeple" for exchanging their freedoms for security. Pretty much both "herds" (the conspiracy theorists and the major public) have in essence let fear rule their lives.

the difference is, my paranoia doesn't cost anything for anyone besides me, the paranoia of the sheeple cost freedoms for everyone. its an easier task to lose a freedom than to gain one.

that is an excellent point, and I have not thought of using that arguement before. Thanks for pointing that out.

Originally posted by doogle
It's a bit annoying for us not living in the USA, we can't access sites using this system unless we submit false info

Then do like those of us in the states do... give them false info, or find another site (at least for now). Its much easier to get rid of these sites by not visiting them and letting them drop to the bottom of the google search list. I would say this thread has probably bumped them up that list already.

Originally posted by XTexan
Then do like those of us in the states do... give them false info, or find another site (at least for now).

absolutely. I use bugmenot.com... to get pre-registered info for sites that require registrations, and my name on almost every registration form / email list is "asdf qwerty"

However, as this thread is about, that will probably be changing very soon. I still can't believe that false info works now.

p.s. there is also a bugmenot firefox extension that lets you just right click in any login field, and automatically enter info from the bugmenot database.

I expect systems like this to evolve right along with he verification systems. There is always a resistance to the violation of privacy somewhere.

[edit on 3-9-2008 by scientist]

Originally posted by piemani know you were responding directly to xtexan but you've made this point repeatedly. i would like to put forward an extrapolation.

I am glad that you responded and I have made the point repeatedly because it doesn't seem to be getting across to you. I will do my best to come at it from a different angle.

this could well be a government pilot, if it is seen to work it is extended to allow any site that wishes to use it. shortly thereafter there will an astroturf outcry about children viewing unsuitable websites, at which point the government states that websites are legally responsible for age verification and seeing as this particular form of age verification is the only one they deem reliable, this is the only form of verification that is deemed court admissible.

all websites must use this system now, even though it it easy to by-pass. those that feel they are doing wrong can and will bypass the system, either by using a proxy to appear as if their IP is from outside the US or by entering false data. however, now doing these things leaves enough suspicion to validate a warrant to track your online behaviour through your ISP.

You COULD be right, but you COULD just as well be wrong. I remember when I was a little girl and my dad was into this same kind of stuff. It was always a state of "what ifs" that made us lose the "right nows."

You are looking at a bigger picture that honestly you can't predict the outcome to. Think about Anne Frank. Look at what she went through locked away in the tiny little room with a bunch of adults with death looming over their heads (and this wasn't an assumption, but a reality) and yet hers is a story of hope and contentment despite the fact that it ended with her death. She saw beauty in the world at a time when evil was in great abundance. This was a teenage girl in dire circumstances..

Evil is everywhere, but so is good. The fact is, right now that site and any others like it are NOT imposing on our rights and so there isn't much any of us can or SHOULD do. You are worrying about the what' ifs when you can't even be sure that you will be alive at the end of the day tomorrow.

Too many ppl are worried about what could happen that they are causing it to come about by the general unrest this country is in right now.

it is only the law abiding people, who feel they have nothing to fear, that can be normally tracked. if it is only useable to track those people it is obviously aimed at those people.

given the past performance of the gov. of the us this doesn't seem implausible, but if these series of events were to unfold, i'm curious to know, at which point would you feel this has become an issue?

But they haven't unfolded for me. I am free to pretty much do as I choose to do in order to pursue my happiness at this point.

There have already been areas in my personal life where I have been imposed upon, I won't lie. I have weighed out the good and bad of each and have made personal sacrifices and stances where I have deemed fit. It would not be responsible of me to go looking for stances to make just to make a point.. bc what point am I making if I am standing against something that doesn't impose on my personal right to life and pursuit to happiness? All that does is beg for them to control me.

the difference is, my paranoia doesn't cost anything for anyone besides me, the paranoia of the sheeple cost freedoms for everyone. its an easier task to lose a freedom than to gain one.

Wrong.. the only freedoms that the constitution has given you a right to pursue are your own. The only personal rights that you have been given the right to DEFEND (not offend) are your own.


***Point out in the documents written out by the founding fathers where it says you get to make assumptions and tell ppl what rights they can and can't have in their lives...***

Your assumptions could lead someone to lose their right to do things the way they see fit. MAKE NO MISTAKES... THAT IS WRONG!!

A lot of ppl get upset that OTHERS are allowing themselves to be chipped. You don't have the right to speak out against that. YOu only have the right to speak out if someone tries to impose that onto you against your will.

Am I making myself anymore clear now?

[edit on 3-9-2008 by justamomma]

Originally posted by justamomma
Am I making myself anymore clear now?

yeah, but i don't think i misunderstood you, i think you preconditioned all my replies with an assumption along the lines of "the only freedom is that extended to americans under the US constitution". that assuption has made your views, IMO, wrong headed.

i'm not from the US, i'm from Ireland, my beliefs are based on the idea that freedom is not something that can be legislated for, rather absolute freedom is a god given right*, in the form of free will, that we choose to restrict for the good of society through legislation.

because i believe legislation restricts freedom rather than give freedom, and because governments draw up and implement legislation, as far as i am concerned government's role in society is to restrict freedom. i believe good government does so in such a way as to benefit society as a whole while bad government restricts freedom in such a way that the restriction either has a negative impact or no impact at all, on society as a whole.

every act of government should be viewed by the good citizen and judged as to what impact it could/would/does have. on balance, this action has no benefit, and has a possible negative impact, on society as a whole, therefore it is bad governance.

this particular issue doesn't even directly affect me, however it does interest me and i am fully sure that should this be implemented in the US, as i have outlined, it would also be implemented in the EU. as was said in the OP, this is a worrying trend, and despite some peoples rather restricted viewpoint i can assure you it extends beyond the US.

*when i say "god given right", i refer to the concept rather than any particular religious belief.

[edit on 3-9-2008 by pieman]

Got it y'all. *sighs* So, basically, despite whether you have a choice in this situation to not enter your information and despite that this is not your site, your worries over where this could potentially lead in your "everyone is out to get me" scenarios is more important to you.

Am curious what you are going to do to put a stop to it. If it really is that important that we not let this go any further, surely you will put a plan of action into motion, right? otherwise this thread is simply to work up unnecessary fear in others and rally around with a big to do all just to make you feel important for noticing something that.... well, for coming up with the next plot "They" have to chip us and lead us off for the slaughter.

A lot like the same mentality the religious types have. Thinking you "know" what will happen, therefore wanting to impose your idea of what is acceptable onto others based on fear and/or piousness.


BTW OP, they did not change anything based on this thread. I had already tried false information long before my first reply and it went through. Maybe the "secret they" were on here at the time and it really was a conspiracy against YOU.

[edit on 3-9-2008 by justamomma]