DEWs(Russian Directed Energy Weapons)

Maybe I am, however looking at the facts its not very probable that they are ahead of us by that much. If they did have a head start then they apparently didn't do very much work with it. Considering the instability of Russia, and there is instability there, the information would have come out a long time ago.

Not to mention we DO get scientists from there. I don't see how it could have been hidden for that long with out any hint of anything going on. The US doesn't keep their secrets that well either.

Originally posted by Iblis
I may be missing something, but, how does pointing out a fairly well-known news article about Russia's ability to create a _strong_ [relative to that time period, anyway. I believe MIRACL still had higher output? Regardless, land-based immobile lasers are pointless except maybe in a defensive role in the extreme] DEW have to do with a mythical "fourty year head-start". Let alone some folk's denial here that we've never had scientists swap around. Particularly in the nuclear field, which is highly related to DEW research.

Good heavens, post Soviet-Union it was like Operation Paperclip all over again.

Do I believe the U.S. has a significant advantage in DEW, or at-least it's most applicable forms? Yes.
Do I believe Russia was on par, or even better than the U.S. for a period? Sure.

Do I believe that currently, they are doing better, much less decades ahead?
No.
And it'd be absurd to do so.

Prove it then I want sources not your "personal opinion" as IT IS "your personol opinion"

Originally posted by Gehennasoul
Maybe I am, however looking at the facts its not very probable that they are ahead of us by that much. If they did have a head start then they apparently didn't do very much work with it. Considering the instability of Russia, and there is instability there, the information would have come out a long time ago.

Not to mention we DO get scientists from there. I don't see how it could have been hidden for that long with out any hint of anything going on. The US doesn't keep their secrets that well either.

The info they had from the 60's-late 90's came out recently, so that should let you knew the U.S. is revieling any thing now, and why don't you just put up some sources to back up your "persoal opinonistic claims" if it was the other way around you'd be asking us the same thing.

Originally posted by rogue1


PS. If Russian laser tech is so advanced why haven't they deployed any operationally. The US will deploy a 100 kw solid state laser on the JSF within 10 years, what do the Russians have?

I think this is a fair question to be asked, as the JSF-35 will have DEW capability, with talk of this also going on the F-22.



I do not see advanced Russia DEW procurement on its aircraft, or anything for that matter, as advanced as what we are seeing with the US. This should serve as a true testament to just whose 'wang' is bigger than the whose.

I agree with Iblis, in that, for a time, it is logical to believe that the Soviets were ahead, at one point, in some instances, but I hardly see that as the case today.

[edit on 1-11-2008 by West Coast]

Originally posted by West Coast

Originally posted by rogue1


PS. If Russian laser tech is so advanced why haven't they deployed any operationally. The US will deploy a 100 kw solid state laser on the JSF within 10 years, what do the Russians have?

I think this is a fair question to be asked, as the JSF-35 will have DEW capability, with talk of this also going on the F-22.

I do not see advanced Russia DEW procurement on its aircraft, or anything for that matter, as advanced as what we are seeing with the US. This should serve as a true testament to just whose 'wang' is bigger than the whose.

I agree with Iblis, in that, for a time, it is logical to believe that the Soviets were ahead, at one point, in some instances, but I hardly see that as the case today.

[edit on 1-11-2008 by West Coast]

hOW OLD ARE YOYU KID, THISIS A DRAWING, AND THATS IT, SURE THERE'S TALK ABOUT IT GOING ON THE f-35 BUT UNTIL IT HAS IT'S PURE SPECULATION, AND ANOTHER THING YOU BETTER KNOW ABOUT RUSSIA BEFORE POSTING "OPINIONS" IS THEY never BOAST ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THE U.S. DOES, THIS IS THE MAIN PROBLEM WITH AMERICANS THEY THINK RUSSIA WILL DO THE EXACT SAME THING AS THEM, BOASTING IN MAGAZINES/T.V.'s HAHAHA your REAL funny, not even 4 posts above your last one I posted sources and you want to act as if there's no sources this the typical "American" deniel system

[edit on 2-11-2008 by 1000hanz]

Originally posted by 1000hanz
hOW OLD ARE YOYU KID, THISIS A DRAWING, AND THATS IT, SURE THERE'S TALK ABOUT IT GOING ON THE f-35 BUT UNTIL IT HAS IT'S PURE SPECULATION, AND ANOTHER THING YOU BETTER KNOW ABOUT RUSSIA BEFORE POSTING "OPINIONS" IS THEY never BOAST ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THE U.S. DOES, THIS IS THE MAIN PROBLEM WITH AMERICANS THEY THINK RUSSIA WILL DO THE EXACT SAME THING AS THEM, BOASTING IN MAGAZINES/T.V.'s

Actually Russia has a history about boasting about many things. Take the article for example here is some mid-level Russian scientist no one has ever heard about BOASTING about how Russia is 40 years ahead of the rest of the world with laser technology. Of course there is absolutely no proof as usual.
Funny thing is you accept it as fact when in fact there are no facts.

It might be of interest as well that several of the big US defence companies are working on solid state lasers and are making significant progress towards the 100kw power mark. Within 10 years is entirely feasable, these efforts are very well documented. Of course they don't compare to your fantasy sources inside Russia There sn't a single shred of evidence Russia is 40 years ahead or even ahead at all. As I have said earlier where are these weapons? Why aren't they deployed if they are so advanced and effective? Maybe because they don't exist.

Originally posted by rogue1

Originally posted by 1000hanz
hOW OLD ARE YOYU KID, THISIS A DRAWING, AND THATS IT, SURE THERE'S TALK ABOUT IT GOING ON THE f-35 BUT UNTIL IT HAS IT'S PURE SPECULATION, AND ANOTHER THING YOU BETTER KNOW ABOUT RUSSIA BEFORE POSTING "OPINIONS" IS THEY never BOAST ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THE U.S. DOES, THIS IS THE MAIN PROBLEM WITH AMERICANS THEY THINK RUSSIA WILL DO THE EXACT SAME THING AS THEM, BOASTING IN MAGAZINES/T.V.'s

Actually Russia has a history about boasting about many things. Take the article for example here is some mid-level Russian scientist no one has ever heard about BOASTING about how Russia is 40 years ahead of the rest of the world with laser technology. Of course there is absolutely no proof as usual.
Funny thing is you accept it as fact when in fact there are no facts.

It might be of interest as well that several of the big US defence companies are working on solid state lasers and are making significant progress towards the 100kw power mark. Within 10 years is entirely feasable, these efforts are very well documented. Of course they don't compare to your fantasy sources inside Russia

There sn't a single shred of evidence Russia is 40 years ahead or even ahead at all. As I have said earlier where are these weapons? Why aren't they deployed if they are so advanced and effective? Maybe because they don't exist.

Your doing your typical "American denile thingy again why iy might be of interest to YOU that if you went to the 1 page of this thread I've posted many sources but you just want to play games and act as if there no sources!

[edit on 2-11-2008 by 1000hanz]

[edit on 2-11-2008 by 1000hanz]

Originally posted by 1000hanz
]hOW OLD ARE YOYU KID, THISIS A DRAWING, AND THATS IT, SURE THERE'S TALK ABOUT IT GOING ON THE f-35 BUT UNTIL IT HAS IT'S PURE SPECULATION, AND ANOTHER THING YOU BETTER KNOW ABOUT RUSSIA BEFORE POSTING "OPINIONS" IS THEY never BOAST ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THE U.S. DOES, THIS IS THE MAIN PROBLEM WITH AMERICANS THEY THINK RUSSIA WILL DO THE EXACT SAME THING AS THEM, BOASTING IN MAGAZINES/T.V.'s HAHAHA your REAL funny, not even 4 posts above your last one I posted sources and you want to act as if there's no sources

this the typical "American" deniel system

[edit on 2-11-2008 by 1000hanz]

I can see that ignorance is second nature to you. Yes, that is a pictorial drawing of the JSF. I never sought to pass it off as being "real".

The fact that Russia does not have anything of value in comparable terms leads me, and many other logical, like minds to think the Russians are not as advanced. And I would be more concerned with what the US is not showing. The US black budget is rumored to be at all time highs. Not to mention that the US R&D military budget alone exceeds $70 billion dollars.

And your claim that Russia does not brag and the US does is contradictory to the actual truth, as history has shown.

Originally posted by 1000hanz
Your doing your typical "American denile thingy again why

iy might be of interest to YOU that if you went to the 1 page of this thread I've posted many sources but you just want to play games and act as if there no sources!

Would these be the same outdated, uncorroborated sources that have very little relevance in todays world?

Again, I need only point to one example, the JSF having a solid state laser within the coming decade as evidence enough, that the US is more then likely leap frogged Russia in the aforementioned subject. Feel free to contradict me with anecdotal proof the russians are on par, with the US on these very basic metrics.

The US will have a 100kw solid state laser that will adorn US fighter aircraft. This is common knowledge, what does Russia have on the table of similar contrast?

PS, Mr. Rogue is not an American


[edit on 2-11-2008 by West Coast]

Originally posted by West Coast

Originally posted by 1000hanz
Your doing your typical "American denile thingy again why

iy might be of interest to YOU that if you went to the 1 page of this thread I've posted many sources but you just want to play games and act as if there no sources!

Would these be the same outdated, uncorroborated sources that have very little relevance in todays world?

Again, I need only point to one example, the JSF having a solid state laser within the coming decade as evidence enough, that the US is more then likely leap frogged Russia in the aforementioned subject. Feel free to contradict me with anecdotal proof the russians are on par, with the US on these very basic metrics.

The US will have a 100kw solid state laser that will adorn US fighter aircraft. This is common knowledge, what does Russia have on the table of similar contrast?

PS, Mr. Rogue is not an American

[edit on 2-11-2008 by West Coast]

Those sources are not outdated care to provide links that say there are?

Originally posted by 1000hanz
]Those sources are not outdated care to provide links that say there are?

Let me dumb it down for you. You're sources are all from the late 80's. There, I just used your own sources to defeat your utterly pitiful argument.

Originally posted by West Coast

Originally posted by 1000hanz
]Those sources are not outdated care to provide links that say there are?

Let me dumb it down for you. You're sources are all from the late 80's. There, I just used your own sources to defeat your utterly pitiful argument.

I know what you ment but you didn't know what I ment, so I'll say it again different;y, care to show any new sources saying those laser Russia had back then have not been:

1. Upgraded

2. Taken out of service?

3. No new ones built??



[edit on 2-11-2008 by 1000hanz]

reply to post by West Coast


I concur with your commments yet russian advancement had their share of catistrophic failures. Their Russion equivilent to the shuttle programs sits as a statue in a park to their inability to aquire enough data to make it fly.
Their paricaal beam programs in the 80's were full of problems. I t could have been p[osssible to interfere with shuttle operations by tagging them.
The lack of funding slowed all of the former soviet union research but who knows a broke clock is correct twice a day.

Originally posted by 1000hanz
I know what you ment but you didn't know what I ment, so I'll say it again different;y, care to show any new sources saying those laser Russia had back then have not been,

Allow me to answer your question by posing the same question in reverse form. Can you provide a link that supports what amounts to being a fabricated opinion of biased proportions? Can you show me a source that indicates that Russia has upgraded said systems? I don't think you can, or will. Just as I don't think you can show me anecdotal evidence that the Russians are prepping future/aircraft for a 100kw laser weapon within the coming decade.






[edit on 2-11-2008 by West Coast]

Originally posted by West Coast

Originally posted by 1000hanz
I know what you ment but you didn't know what I ment, so I'll say it again different;y, care to show any new sources saying those laser Russia had back then have not been,

Allow me to answer your question by posing the same question in reverse form. Can you provide a link that supports what amounts to being a fabricated opinion of biased proportions? Can you show me a source that indicates that Russia has upgraded said systems? I don't think you can, or will. Just as I don't think you can show me anecdotal evidence that the Russians are prepping future/aircraft for a 100kw laser weapon within the coming decade.






[edit on 2-11-2008 by West Coast]

YOUR the denier YOU proove your case, don't try and reverse this thing, YOU CAN'T DO IT thats why you want to reverse it and try and put me on the spot light?
typical American tactcs, you LLOOSTTT



[edit on 2-11-2008 by 1000hanz]

1000hanz

Oh boy.... Don't confuse your own envious wishes with reality. The fact is, the burden of proof is all on you to prove. You made the claims, then you posed questions that you yourself could not validate, if you could, you would have, and there would not have been a problem.

The best shield against logic is ignorance, I can see you are playing this card to a T.


Here is the proof to my claims (with pictures for you less imaginative bunch ).

This is the JHPSSL.

Designed to accelerate solid-state laser technology for military uses, the JHPSSL program is funded by the Army Space and Missile Defense Command, Huntsville, Ala; Office of the Secretary of Defense - Joint Technology Office, Albuquerque; Air Force Research Laboratory, Kirtland Air Force Base, N.M.; and the Office of Naval Research, Arlington, Va.

Under the current phase (Phase 3), the program's goal is for a laser system to reach 100 kW, setting the stage for a variety of force protection and strike missions such as shipboard defense against cruise missiles; wide-area, ground-based defense against rockets, artillery, and mortars; and precision strike missions for airborne platforms.

Northrop Grumman surpassed a critical milestone on the JHPSSL 2 program when it demonstrated a laser system with a total power of greater than 27 kW with a run time of 350 seconds.

Northrop Grumman's approach utilizes amplifier chains assembled with multiple high-power gain modules. The company's JHPSSL demonstrator used two chains to demonstrate the 27 kW level achieved during Phase 2. Avoiding the need for new physics or scaling, the company's 100 kW architecture uses eight chains, very similar to those used in its 27 kW device.

JHPSSL Phase 1 addressed risk reduction of the technologies necessary to obtain high power and beam quality simultaneously. Phase 2 took these technologies and scaled them to greater than 25 kW, and showed further scalability to 100 kW and beyond.

www.st.northropgrumman.com...


Here are other possible variants that the laser could adorn.
www.st.northropgrumman.com...

Talon is a highly mobile, ground-based, solid state laser system capable of providing U.S. ground forces with a revolutionary multi-role defense like no other against rocket, artillery, mortor (RAM) and other aerial attacks.

In addition to providing a protective shield against incoming RAM threats, Talon's high resolution optics will provide launch point prediction with unsurpassed accuracy. This combination will enable decisive counter-battery with kinetic energy systems and will dramatically improve freedom of maneuver for the joint force.

Talon takes solid state laser technology out of the lab and into operations by demonstrating military utility and allowing the development of concepts of operations. In addition to speed of light engagement, the laser defense system offers unique operational advantages to the military, including ultra-precision, limited collateral damage, deep magazines and reduced logistics burden.

Northrop Grumman, the industry leader in high-energy laser systems for defensive applications, has expertise in every aspect of laser defense systems - from lasers, beam control and user interfaces to platforms and battle management command and control.

Combined with BAE Systems' leadership in advanced hybrid electric drive technology for ground combat vehicles and in developing the next generation of manned ground vehicles for the Army's Future Combat System, the Talon team offers the ultimate option for mobile solid-state laser systems.

Expected to greatly shorten the timeline for lasers to go from the laboratory onto the battlefield, Vesta's critical features are high power, excellent beam quality, and long run time — all packaged into a compact laser device that represents significant reductions in size and in the weight of the laser from previous systems.

Beam quality refers to how well the beam can be focused, ultimately defining how much of the beam can be projected onto a target. Since it offers a groundbreaking combination of excellent beam quality and high power, Vesta can place an unprecedented level of power onto a targeted spot.

Potential uses include force protection of fixed-site critical assets, ground maneuver forces, ships and aircraft as well as precision strike by manned and unmanned aircraft.

Vesta:

* Demonstrates a "beam quality" or brightness of less than 1.3
times the theoretical diffraction limit. By comparison, a
typical industrial laser for welding would have a beam quality
exceeding 20. Weapon system applications typically seek beam
qualities of 1.5 to 2. Beam qualities less than 1.5 for
high-power lasers are considered outstanding.
* Operates at a power of 15 kilowatts continuous run time
* Is designed to operate at this power and beam quality level
indefinitely — even demonstrating more than 20 minutes of
continuous operation with no degradation.

SkyStrike is a multi-mission airborne precision strike laser weapon system capable of multi-platform integration. The >15kW Skystrike laser system leverages Northrop Grumman's advances in packaged Vesta and fiber lasers, offering enhanced magazine and significantly reduced collateral damaged relative to traditional kinetic energy weapon systems. Skystrike missions include counter-IED, urban overwatch, counter-sniper, smuggler interdiction, counter-information, and sea base/convoy protection, supporting joint forces, special ops, and Homeland Security initiatives. Utilization of high TRL technology enables rapid program development and near-term fielding.

Funded by the Missile Defense Agency, Strategic Illuminator Laser (SILL) is a diode-pumped, solid-state, next-generation illuminator laser. In 2006, SILL met all technical performance requirements when it demonstrated multi-kilowatt-class average output power, operating at 5 kHz, with outstanding beam quality for a run time of five minutes. The tests proved that the SILL is the highest power, brightest laser of its kind ever built.

Illuminator lasers are critical components of all high energy laser weapon systems. They are used in conjunction with tracking sensors to help point the laser weapon at the target. They also are used in conjunction with wavefront sensors to help clean up distortion in the laser beam caused by the atmosphere and other parts of the weapon’s optical system so that the beam can be focused to a smaller spot at the target.

The SILL program began in April 2003 with a competitive Phase 1 trade study, and the SILL Phase 2 program initiated a significant risk reduction effort designed to demonstrate the technologies necessary to obtain higher power and excellent beam quality simultaneously. Additional work in Phase 2 focused on component ruggedization and packaging designs needed for a compact, lightweight brassboard.

The current phase, Phase 3, takes these technologies to the next level in the fabrication, integration and test of a deliverable, compact, lightweight brassboard device.

Full spectrum domination is the aim.

Google Video Link

[edit on 2-11-2008 by West Coast]

Everyone take note at how I apply what is scientific facts to what I post whilst 1000hanz reverts back to ad hominem attacks.

[edit on 2-11-2008 by West Coast]

Every one look at how he hasn't shown no article/S saying Russia's Laser tech which began in the 60's is "NOW ABSOLETE" thats what I asked him to show but he didn't!!
He's some more recent stuff I found: www.jamesoberg.com...

www.flug-revue.rotor.com...

reply to post by 1000hanz


Yet you cannot provide basic information on the production, procedures, and current status of such projects?

I have already provided information where lasers are going to be a major part of the US military in the coming decade, you have not shown that Russia is comparable, or head, on these very basic metrics that have been set as the standard for proof. Therefore, you lose.

reply to post by West Coast


Since i REALLY don't want to get involved in more chest thumping weaponry discussions ( US Uber Alles, obviously, and god save those stupid 'Russian kids' who disagrees) i would just like to point out that you have not established the type of credibility that allows you to 'disqualify' others when they use your favorite ad-hominem strategy. I appreciate the effort you put in that last post so if you keep that up for a few months of a year i will reconsider your past largely sourceless conduct and we can start on a fresh page. Until then i expect sources, not rhetoric.

St