Discovery channel crew, film a bizzare ufo "yesterday 26/08/08".

So, this:

turned out to be this:
.

What I find more interesting is why they did it, why did they had the trouble of preparing what looks like a trap to Arturo Robles Gil.

reply to post by ArMaP




I think it is because he allegedly sells so many films to Jamie who seems keen to show them on his program whether they are real or not. MUFON want to get to the bottom of the ufo debate and want to stamp out the fakes that discredit the real ufo videos like mine
www.youtube.com...

Click here for more information.

reply to post by free_spirit

No.
This had nothing to do with racism. It had to do with proving that Arturo Robles Gil either cannot tell the difference between balloons and ufo's, or he himself is an intentional hoaxer.


[edit on 11/30/2008 by Phage]

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by free_spirit

 

No.
This had nothing to do with racism. It had to do with proving that Arturo Robles Gil either cannot tell the difference between balloons and ufo's, or he himself is an intentional hoaxer.


[edit on 11/30/2008 by Phage]

Then you need to watch the infamous tv show, watch the laughs and the expressions
by Carrion regarding the people and then we talk. Unless you sympahtize with racism.

reply to post by free_spirit




Thanks for calling me a liar, I said "allegedly sells his videos", I got that from here stephendsullivan.blogspot.com...
Quote... "The MUFON crew goes to Mexico City to investigate the huge number of sighting constantly coming from south of the US border. Is it possible that one place can consistently have so many "genuine" UFO sightings? Or is it more likely that the culture of Mexico -- which features a very popular UFO-sighting show -- is making people mistake more mundane objects for truly strange things? After interviewing witnesses, the group decides to focus on three incidents: a videographer who works with Jaime Maussan (ultra-popular UFO show host) and consistently sells UFO footage."

I don't watch Mexican tv here in the UK so can only understand it through yt etc .Yes at first because of my own sighting I thought this was something else and the way it was pulled seemed very strange but I did later on in this thread admit that they were balloons and like others am confused why they would want to con Mr Gil in this way whether he sells his film or not I have no idea, that is why I said "allegedly "because it was hinted at in the blog above. I am truly sorry If I am wrong and I apologize if anybody was offended especially Mr Gill himself. I also think it was wrong that he was deceived in this way .Its just not very sporting and should not mean that everything he has videoed is fake or wrong.Anyone can make a mistake ,even experts.

[edit on 30-11-2008 by tarifa37]

[edit on 30-11-2008 by tarifa37]

[Quote by free_spirit]
But even worse, James Carrion and Ruben Uriarte are a pair of racists who made
fun and laughed of the mexican people. What kind of serious researcher do this in
a television program? These two individuals must be adopted by the Skeptics Society
as a model, do you hear me Michael Shermer?


Now that is serious slander ,I do not know these men but can you prove they are " a pair of racists"?
People in glass houses should not throw stones. Lets not get into a slanging match on this. It was proved to be balloons,and I think they were very naughty to try and fool Mr Gil as it made him look bad. A bit like that hoax phone call to Sara Palin. Does not mean they are wrong all the time.

[edit on 30-11-2008 by tarifa37]

Originally posted by tarifa37
reply to post by free_spirit

 

Thanks for calling me a liar, I said "allegedly sells his videos", I got that from here stephendsullivan.blogspot.com...

[edit on 30-11-2008 by tarifa37]

[edit on 30-11-2008 by tarifa37]

You got the wrong picture here. Mr Robles is a colaborator for the mexican tv show
JUST LIKE many other skywatchers in Mexico AND the mexican people that report
and send ufo videos all the time. This does'nt mean all of them work for the show
and receive money, you got it ? There is only one tv show about ufos in Mexico so
it's not surpsiring all the ufo witnesses send their videos, photos and accounts to
this tv station, it's a permanent open door to all these incidents without censorship
or any form of cover-up, this has been hapenning since 1991 and the door has never
been closed. Truth is the UFO scenario in that country south of the border was made
by the mexican people themselves, not a single skywatcher or a tv anchorman like
James Carrion implied.

We have to be fair to all these people, skywatchers who invest time and effort to
watch the sky in order to document the UFO activity that takes place in Mexico, is
their effort who made the awareness of a country to this phenomena. Nobody is
perfect, that's an illusion and people can make mistakes like human beings but
the amount of evidences gathered in a two decade period is overwhelming and
can not be denied. Despite what James Carrion claims that is not posible to have
so many UFO sightings, that is not posible that a single man can have so many
UFO videos. Either Carrion is an ignorant or lives in denial. There are many
skywatchers around the world with many UFO videos of their own result of hours
and hours of dedicated skywatching through the years. Ufology has gotten strong
thanks to these skywatchers. Too bad Mr. Carrion deny these facts.

As a response to your stephendsullivan article wich is inaccurate I suggest you read
this excellent article by Christopher Knowels that defines perfectly the actions and
tactics used by this couple Carrion and Uriarte in the fiasco UFOs over Earth show.

Source: Christopher Knowles' The Secret Sun Blog

/5lfd2f

Thursday, November 27, 2008


Now Discovery Channel Does The 'UFO Thing'

Sensing a pattern here? UFOs Over Earth premieres this week. I
haven't had time to check it out, but I'm not holding my breath
for it being anything but a bunch of ad hoc arguments,
professional kooks and establishment-mouthpiece "skeptics"
getting the last word.

I'm pretty tired of these shows, since they never really address
the real evidence (Discovery's AAT show was a farce). They exist
for two reasons; one, to give the debunkers some publicity, and
two, to reassure those who have no real interest in the topic
that there's nothing to worry about, so go back to your daily
shopping duties.

The so-called skeptic movement is a joke - when the
Fundamentalists were storming to power in the 70s and 80s on an
aggressively anti-science agenda, the so-called skeptics were
more worried about palm readers and crystal kissers. That's
because those types have no power and no real ability to
retaliate.

But I wonder if any of the debunkers ever stopped to realize
that UFO debunking may well be feeding into anti-science
sentiment in some parts of the country. When skeptics like Phil
Plait make objectively false statements about UFOs:

www.dailygrail.com...

or dismiss out of hand the thousands of good photos or film we
have on them, it hardly lends to their credibility when they
call someone's religious faith into question- something which a
topic like UFOs pales into triviality for true believers.

In the end, however, the debate is irrelevant to what I'm
writing about here, since my interest is in how UFOs and all the
rest of it are absorbed and processed in the culture. I've never
seen a UFO myself, but have a very interesting swamp gas story
that I should tell you all about sometime.

reply to post by tarifa37


Ruben Uriarte, member of MUFON made a hoax along with James Carrion, this is a
fact admitted by them with cynicism on television. This act alone condem this couple.
To make a hoax to pursue any objective is reprovable and must be censored, period.

This person named Ruben Uriarte executed a premeditated hoax in Mexico breaking
the Ethics and deceiving the general opinion all over the world for his own benefit.





Even worse Ruben Uriarte made fun of all those who belived this was a legitimate
video of an unknown, people who acted in good faith by watching the footage in
Youtube and other websites, maybe hundreds of them worldwide. Ruben Uriarte
laughed of the “naive”“ ignorant fools” who fell into his trap. This is inadmissible by
all means. Here is the evidence.

video.google.com...

Do you think it's funny Mr. Uriarte? To laugh and make fun of so many people that
not knowing about your hoax made comments in good faith on Youtube ? Do you
think this is the right attitude for a MUFON member, to setup people and later to
laugh of them on national television ? Do you think it's fair to make a trip south of
the border just to accomplish a premeditated hoax to discredit a ufo witness and
criticise all those Youtube viewers, forum members etc. ? Are you satisfied sir ?
You made an historic mistake Mr. Uriarte, a serious researcher don't make this kind
of actions. Shame on you sir.

A sarcasm resulted the phrase invented by James Carrion as opposite to the famous
ufologic proverb. See this.




For James Carrion The Truth Is Not Out There.

reply to post by free_spirit


On a personal level, I never liked MUFON, it always sounded like they were more interested in getting the whole attention of the UFO community than to get closer to the truth (whatever it may be), but I never followed their work closely, so my opinion is based on just a small number of cases, and this one does not make them look better.

I think it's really anti-ethic (at least) to make such a move as this one, and the reaction shows that this was what they were expecting, an opportunity to show Arturo Robles Gil in a bad light. I wonder if the idea of filming on the top of the building was from the Discovery Channel, if it was then this was all set up, and the interview was just an excuse for the hoax.

PS: you should put the text from the blog inside [‍ex] and [‍/ex] tags to show this text came from an external source.

ANOTHER CONTRADICTION

James Carrion made this statement during the tv program. : “We at MUFON want to
solve the mystery. There are people who want to perpetuate it”.

It seems Mr. Carrion gives too much credit to himself wich represents a high level of
arrogance.

The mystery of the UFO Phenomena has not been solved in more than 50 years of
profound research involving hundreds of researchers, groups, witnesses etc. The
mystery remains and this is a fact. Don't be presumptuous Mr. Carrion.

It's clear James Carrion wants to “solve the mystery” by debunking people, by cheating
on them to discredit the sightings and by consequence to “explain” the unexplainable.
James Carrion does foulplay as a resource to get his own purposes and it has been
proven. By saying “There are those who want to perpetuate the UFO mystery“ he
is criticizing not only those researches (hundreds worldwide) who proclaim the UFO
phenomena as a reality and a mystery but also Carrion is criticizing his own MUFON and
it's postulates. How arrogant is this guy.

Finally James Carrion is completely against the words Extraterrestial Beings. He laughs
of this theory and ridiculizes all those who belive extraterrestials are visiting us like
Edgar Mitchell recently revealed. Then James Carrion is himself against MUFON who
has been conducting a profound research on abductions for years.

Is'nt this a big contradiction?

reply to post by free_spirit


You have to ask him if that is a contradiction, he is the only one (I suppose) who knows what his idea was when he joined MUFON, if it was to try understand what UFOs are (and they are probably several different things) or if he had a different idea.

reply to post by free_spirit


Hey free_spirit, I think Jaime Mausson is a crackpot who wants to benefit from Fraudulent ufo stories. I think you're foolish for defending the mexican fake ufo phenomenon. 99% of those videos out of mexico are total crap.

Originally posted by ArMaP
reply to post by free_spirit

 

On a personal level, I never liked MUFON, it always sounded like they were more interested in getting the whole attention of the UFO community than to get closer to the truth (whatever it may be), but I never followed their work closely, so my opinion is based on just a small number of cases, and this one does not make them look better.

I think it's really anti-ethic (at least) to make such a move as this one, and the reaction shows that this was what they were expecting, an opportunity to show Arturo Robles Gil in a bad light. I wonder if the idea of filming on the top of the building was from the Discovery Channel, if it was then this was all set up, and the interview was just an excuse for the hoax.

PS: you should put the text from the blog inside [‍ex] and [‍/ex] tags to show this text came from an external source.

Please don't knock the whole organization due to you getting a rotten taste in your mouth from some peoples actions. I am a MUFON Field Investigator from Philly who was on the Bucks County Flap Episode and have personally handled 93 cases so far this year. I joined MUFON due to my own personal interest in UFOlogy due to a sighting I had back in 89. Since I joined MUFON in March of this year, I have had the opportunity to rub elbows with alot of good people: Linda Moulton Howe, Dr. W.C. Levengood, George Noory, Tom Carey to name a few. Maybe your beef is with the hiearchy of MUFON, but don't throw the FI's into that catagory because we are volunteers who put countless hours & quite a few bucks into this pretty expensive hobby. Thanks.

I don't see where there was anything particularly unethical done. The purpose of the MUFON investigator floating the balloons was not to create a hoax, but to test the perceptual abilities of the witnesses.

Nobody twisted anybody's arm. At any time, the photographer could have said (as we frequently do/did here), "Oh, well, it's unusual, but it looks a lot like a bunch of balloons, and could very well be balloons. It's inconclusive until more data shows up." That would have been fine.

But that's not what happened.

[edit on 4-12-2008 by Nohup]

reply to post by mufon12347


My opinion is not based on the actions of any specific member, and it was just my personal opinion about that organisation as such.

As I do not know the "hierarchy" or the "FIs" (that I suppose mean Field Investigators), just some things I have read that were publish by MUFON, I have no way of knowing if what they publish is of the responsibility of the "hierarchy" or the "FIs".

And don't worry, if I ever have any problem with a specific person I will say his/her name, I never mix the whole with some of its elements.

Originally posted by tarifa37
[Quote by free_spirit]
But even worse, James Carrion and Ruben Uriarte are a pair of racists who made
fun and laughed of the mexican people. What kind of serious researcher do this in
a television program? These two individuals must be adopted by the Skeptics Society
as a model, do you hear me Michael Shermer?

Um, Carrion is part Hispanic so why would he be Racist against his own race?????

reply to post by mufon12347


Actually, Ruben is also Hispanic, which is probably why he and Carrion were chosen for the show, just in case people like Free Spirit make such ridiculous accusations of racism.

Hi free_spirit,

See my responses to your rantings below:

Originally posted by free_spirit
ANOTHER CONTRADICTION

The mystery of the UFO Phenomena has not been solved in more than 50 years of
profound research involving hundreds of researchers, groups, witnesses etc. The
mystery remains and this is a fact. Don't be presumptuous Mr. Carrion.

It's clear James Carrion wants to “solve the mystery” by debunking people, by cheating
on them to discredit the sightings and by consequence to “explain” the unexplainable.
James Carrion does foulplay as a resource to get his own purposes and it has been
proven. By saying “There are those who want to perpetuate the UFO mystery“ he
is criticizing not only those researches (hundreds worldwide) who proclaim the UFO
phenomena as a reality and a mystery but also Carrion is criticizing his own MUFON and
it's postulates. How arrogant is this guy.

Finally James Carrion is completely against the words Extraterrestial Beings. He laughs
of this theory and ridiculizes all those who belive extraterrestials are visiting us like
Edgar Mitchell recently revealed. Then James Carrion is himself against MUFON who
has been conducting a profound research on abductions for years.

Is'nt this a big contradiction?

You seem to have the inside scoop on what I think and what my motives are despite having been proven wrong in previous posts. You throw around accusations of racism, debunking, hoaxing, etc. in an obvious emotional tirade to try and discredit both MUFON and myself while at the same time hiding behind your anonymity and self-righteousness.

So free_spirit, here are some questions I hope you can answer...Who are you really? What's your name and occupation? What city, state and country do you call home? Are you a real person or just another one of the many agent provocateurs in the employ of the intelligence services whose primary modus operandi is to promote infighting in Ufology?

And please whatever you do, do not answer my very pointed questions with questions of your own, or with flippant statements while avoiding the questions... both classic disinformation ploys..