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I am also Pagan and think religion and politics should be way apart...but REGARDLESS
Obama is Christian.
if anything. I'd rather someone use facts and statistics,
Originally posted by orangetom1999
This is not a Christian speech..it is anti Christian and anti American both.
No Christian and American would make such a speech telling someone else that they cannot live or vote their conscience on issues or on politics by their beliefs.
Exactly where did he say no one could vote their conscience on issues or politics? I don't remember hearing him say anything of the sort.
"Although this may offend evangelicals, in a pluralistic society, we have no choice except to compromise with others. We must persuade people by referencing a commonly agreed to reality. We must compromise, and assess what is really possible. This contradicts religion, which is, at a fundamental level, uncompromising, and practices the art of dealing with the impossible. Basing your life on this may be sublime, but basing policies on this is dangerous."
"Democracy demands that participants translate their beliefs into universal rather than religious specific values. It requires that religious proposals be subject to argument, and agreeable to reason. If someone seeks to pass a law, it must be based on something OTHER than just the teachings of the church. You can't simply point to what your pastor said last Sunday, or evoke "God's Will", and expect that argument to be accepted by everyone without further debate.
"You can't simply point to what your pastor said last Sunday, or evoke "God's Will", and expect that argument to be accepted by everyone without further debate.
"Although this may offend evangelicals, in a pluralistic society, we have no choice except to compromise with others.
We must persuade people by referencing a commonly agreed to reality. We must compromise, and assess what is really possible.
This contradicts religion, which is, at a fundamental level, uncompromising, and practices the art of dealing with the impossible. Basing your life on this may be sublime, but basing policies on this is dangerous."
"Democracy demands that participants translate their beliefs into universal rather than religious specific values.
It requires that religious proposals be subject to argument, and agreeable to reason.
It is wrong to take the comments he states concerning how a political leader should do their job and apply it to the voter's side of the equation.
Democracy demands that participants translate their beliefs into universal rather than religious specific values. It requires that religious proposals be subject to argument, and agreeable to reason. If someone seeks to pass a law, it must be based on something OTHER than just the teachings of the church. You can't simply point to what your pastor said last Sunday, or evoke "God's Will", and expect that argument to be accepted by everyone without further debate.
Originally posted by orangetom1999
For you see Valhall...there are those of us out here who know the name of the counterfeiter ..by name. It does not matter whether the Pharisees are doing it or anyone else...we still know the name.
The flaw in you argument is that he is discussing the politician's side of the equation; not the voter's.
Sorry Andrew..I dont put any stock in Rush here to teach this concept or line of thinking.
Originally posted by orangetom1999
Valhall,
Please think through what you are saying in your post in lieu of trying to debate point by point..my statements. You seem not wont to do so to show me where I am incorrect...just dismiss what I am saying as being in error..yet you do not specifically show me where my positions are in error..point by point.
The speech was not anti-Christian, it was anti-Sectarian.
The speech was not anti-Christian, it was anti-Sectarian.
American law and politics "trivialize" religion by forcing the religiously faithful to subordinate their personal views to a public faith largely devoid of religion.
'
Originally posted by Dan Tanna
He is the nastiest little piece of c### thats ever walked the earth.
He is a chameleon of the worst kind. Worse than Tony B'Liar, and he was aweful.
[edit on 23-8-2008 by Dan Tanna]