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To sum up: as a Christian I am not prepared to pretend that I don't think pagan practices in general have their dangers, or that occult practices such as tarot reading or holding seances are not asking for trouble. But with satanism we enter another level of danger altogether: the worshipper is in effect begging for contact with demons.
As a Christian I believe all occult powers are the result of demonic influence, and that Satan stands at the head.
view in which to decide how to explain the past. do you see what i am saying? i am not knocking you or your faith, just within this particular arena.
As a Christian I believe all occult powers are the result of demonic influence, and that Satan stands at the head.
It was not me, but mattguy who raised the issue 'Is this occult-related or Satan-worship?' I responded in a friendly manner: 'I don't see the difference, but feel free to lay out the difference as you see it'. You then asked me to explain my understanding, and that's what I've done. Any fair-minded reader will look back and see that I have not used this to push any agenda - I've just answered questions, admitting freely that my answers reflect a Christian understanding. I see nothing wrong with such an approach on ATS, or anywhere else for that matter. The mods are free to comment.
As to whether other historical figures, such as Hitler, were satanists, I would only make that claim if I came across evidence to that effect. So your suggestion I am the type of person who just throws such accusations around is baseless.
Whether I am a Christian or in fact a paid-up member of the Communist Party actually has no bearing on the issue at the heart of this thread: there is evidence that Marx had first-hand knowledge of a satanist initiation ceremony, and that he wrote of his hatred for God. There is then the follow-up issue of whether this may help explain the hatred of many Communist governments for people of faith. I keep trying to get back to these two themes.
As I have said, I am in the process of gathering additional evidence, and invite others to do the same. I was just hoping for an informed discussion. I'm a little taken aback that my Christian perspective is being made such an issue of in what I assume to be a liberal forum where difference is accepted.
Incidentally I have studied communist ideology and the history of the movement as subsidiary subjects at degree level. Contrary to your assumption that someone examining history necessarily skews the facts because they have their own personal beliefs, I was specifically taught that even openly biased sources of evidence should not necessarily be discounted as unreliable, as no witness or historian is ever a tabla rasa. It is more a question of whether the source of evidence has integrity.
If your assertion that I am using my Christian view to explain the past is referring to the question of whether Marx was a satanist - it is simply baseless. If it is referring to the question of the extent to which this would explain Communist hatred for believers - yes, I suppose that is possibly of more interest to people of faith, some of whom are Christian. But seeing as this is the 'Conspiracies in Religion' forum I see no grounds for you to criticise me on that basis!
I have simply come across some evidence I believe deserves examination and discussion. Surely that's what ATS is for.
Those who are aware of these things are not in the least surprised that Communist governments have proved to be vehemetly anti-God, resulting in the imprisonment, exile and even execution of untold masses of people who held to their faith in God.
[edit on 22/8/08 by pause4thought]
atheist do not worship satan
Originally posted by drevill
reply to post by Azrael75
atheist do not worship satan
this is assuming that an atheist is an athiest. a person worshipping satan/lucifer could quite easily claim there is no God.
david
Originally posted by drevill
reply to post by Azrael75
atheist do not worship satan
this is assuming that an atheist is an athiest. a person worshipping satan/lucifer could quite easily claim there is no God.
david