Anyone change there mind about 9/11 being a conspiracy

HI, Ok to make the title clear i mean those that changed there mind about 9/11 being a conspiracy to believing the official story was close to the truth and why. i understand this topic is very delicate among many members.

It seems on par with religion or politics (as far as things you shouldn't argue with people about). I'm not here to argue in this discusion. I am just curious.

I wanted to know if there was anyone out there who at some point in time was strongly convinced or had a strong belief that 9/11 was a conspiracy and then later changed their mind. Note this doesn't have to mean they went on with the official story word for word , i mean i don't think the gov't would give or allow all the details of what happened out to the media for issues of "national security" no matter what happened. But This could include those who went from 9/11 is a conspiracy to the offical story is very close to the truth. If you have could you possibly be willing to share with me why you have?

thanks for any reply's. Also if you haven't try to resist commenting in order to keep the topic on the discussion (that'll work lol)

[edit on 21-8-2008 by cpdaman]

i guess that would be a no? lol

My mind has not been changed as to what has happened. Not that I know everything. Just that I have questions that never get answered.

Actually, it appears as though the truther's are causing reaction from the official story tellers. Damage control.

Nothing has changed my mind.

My mind was never changed, but it did waver a chunk a few years back. I have come to the conclusion that the basic concept is close to what happened, but all the true conspiracy & cover-ups happen in the wake of 9/11.

I starting looking at all the evidence that the truthers had, but was disappointed when most of their facts & proof were laughable at best. I got through it, so I'm still reading , listening & vetting info on the events of 9/11. I haven't seen anything that holds water yet, but I would certain give something tangible a chance.

Many of the true cover-ups will be lost in the plethora of armchair theories. I just wish more constructive things could occur but it likely never will with all the mudslinging & holographic planes.

What proof and facts were laughable?

Were you reading John Lear's theories?
That could be the problem right there. Not saying SOME of his theories on energy weapons and holograms is completely out of the question (I try to keep an open open OPEN mind), but going from no conspiracy at all to microwave death rays in space and holograms of jets.... can be a bit of a leap.

What about building 7?

[edit on 21-8-2008 by dunwichwitch]

EDIT:

Also... what does one gain by scoffing at someone else's interpretation simply because it seems laughable? Hearing and considering all angles is was a good investigator should do. If Jimmy says he saw the husband kill the wife, but the investigator laughs it off because he's best friends with the husband and "he couldn't possibly have the capability or the motive" or "he's too nice of a guy", wouldn't that seriously inhibit his ability to figure out the truth?

[edit on 21-8-2008 by dunwichwitch]

what with all these forums closed by staff, while there is nothing offensive in the thread?
This bugs me since monthes.

Yes, I changed my mind 100%. I started to wonder why each theory became more rediculous than the last. And when you start believing one conspiracy, you have to buy into the government conspiracy and all the other conspiracies that go with it.

Maybe I should explain myself a little better. I am a person who gives everyone the benefit of the doubt. My question is always why would these conspiracy theorists lie? I generally trust people until I am given a reason not to trust them.

So giving the loose change folks, Alex Jones, and some of the kooks out there the benefit of the doubt, I had no reason to doubt them because of the type of person I am. At the same time I was spouting the garbage that these kooks come up with to my friends. They thought my ideas were incredibly stupid and I called them ignorant. They would ask me simple logical questions and found myself searching those websites or google videos for answers. It bothered me that I could not answer simple logical questions, simple questions that I would have asked before I got into the conspiracy mindset.

But then I started coming to ats. I wasn't really interested in debating or even reading about the debate in the 9/11 forums. I quickly found a few posts that really challenged my mindset and looked for these posters other posts on ats. They had the mindset that I had before the I got into the conspiracy mindset.

Until someone in an unrelated thread posted some information that really caused me to question why I thought the way I did about the world and issues in the world. I kept finding more and more of these few logical posts and later clicked on their profiles to find other posts by them. Lo and behold a few of them posted in the 9/11 forum so I became interested on their take of the events that day.

In those posts they really knew what they were talking about and showed me information I had not seen before. I clicked on the links they posted and was completely blown away whether it be websites or other forums. I realized my conspiracy theories could not stand up to the simplest of questions.

In the process of looking at those links, it got me back to putting a human face of the people who were involved on that tragic day. The firefighters, the people in the buildings, the people in the planes, the people on the ground. Because when you believe these conspiracies, you have to dehumanize the victims and the witnesses of that day and pass them off as insignificant to believe these conspiracy theories.

I found out that all these people in the "truth" movement were taking people's quotes out of context or just plain fabricating them and calling these people liars. That is when I knew these people had lost my trust. They purposely mislead people for profit, ratings, or just plain 15 minutes of fame.

Suddenly, I was like my old self again, logical, skeptical, but above all thinking for myself again. Skyfloating's debate thread on "Are things getting better" among other threads, really showed me that conspiracy mindset was not reality.

So in short I would really like to thank members who take the time to post reality, and logical explanations. I would love to list all of them from ats and jref and other websites, but the list would be far too long.

So again thank you to those that take the time research these claims and give the victims and families the justice that they deserve.

reply to post by TheTilde


OK. Seems the thread is not closed (obviously as I can post) but "under close scrutinity"...
well well well. I'm watched

The 911 forum is under scrutiny, not this particular thread. The reason is that things can get ugly when discussing with religious fanatics.

OT: I am very glad for luke. Its hard to get out again once you are in. One of the reasons ist that ta conspiracy theory by definition is a self sustaining belief system: what contradicts it becomes a part of it. Kudos man for not falling into that trap!

for that reason (and some others) I think the number of folks able to get out is pretty small.
The some others:
Being a truther makes you feel smarter than all those sheeple who can't see.
Its more entertaining than the truth
And
Its less scary. A huge mythological government conspiracy with superpowers was requiered to wreak havoc on world politics. Years of planning, lots of money. It gets more of a one time event there. With as simple a requirement as 20 hate filled men it could happen again any day....

reply to post by cpdaman


Strangely enough, for me personally, the longer time goes by, the greater my belief that it was either 'directly' an inside job or 'indirectly' gross incompetence (somewhere in between those two lies the answer IMO) - either way, in a truly democratic nation that administration should have been thrown out of office and straight into Guantanamo (jump suits and the whole nine yards).

They knew they were under warning of imminent attack (such warning came from the British and Russians, among others); approximately when and where it was likely to happen (economic, political and military centers of power); they done nothing about it other than practice the same coincidental attacks on the same day leaving the east coast exposed and then, ultimately, lied about their knowledge of such attacks given the exposure of the said daily presidential briefings. The lack of a full and fair investigation / public enquiry also adds suspicion and certainly does not help the situation (i.e. why not release the pentagon video tapes if it was the airliner in question)? Such unnecessary secrecy just adds fuel to the fire.

The most painful part of the 'truth' process is that many 'truthers' try to force the issues, possibly for their own self-interest rather than for the memories of those that died. If the focus was based on the government's knowledge of such attacks, rather than holographic images and atomic explosions etc, that would be thee smoking gun that would be sold so easily to the masses. Stick to the basics and keep it simple should be the 'truther's' overriding objective.

What is interesting however, is that the more people I discuss the above with (as a set of incidents (or ''facts'')) rather than a grandiose conspiracy ''theory'', the more likely they are to look into the matter themselves or simply believe that the current administration is 'capable' of incompetence / betrayal.

Breifne

I was a Pentgon missile person. I watch many videos made by truthers. I ignored evidence.

I watched WKJO....Who Killed John O'Neil.

I was convinced. The Governement did this.

Then I looked at the evidence.....

thanks for the reply's

cool hand luke , i like how you took the time to explain things and how you went about changing your mind, belief systems are funny things, in that things don't necessarily have to be true for you to believe them, but sometimes it's the perception you create that matters, not necessarily truth , but i am getting a bit carried away

I am trying to look at all aspects in a close way, and also armed with the knowledge (that i hope you were to Cool hand luke) that

1. just because i can't comprehend how something may have been put together doesn't mean it didn't occur

2. Should a conspiracy like this actually be true, there would be so much counter intelligence out there, like planted story's of holograms and other trojan horses to poision the "truther's" well.

3. When someone has believed that there COULD be some sort of conspiracy it is important to have #1, and #2 in mind, because if you don't , you would end up changing your mind based on "false positive's" and fall for the traps set up by counter intelligence measures. The same force that seems to help perpetuate the conspiracy nature of beliefs can also work the other way in once you are willing to give the official story a chance, the benefit of gaining social acceptance on the issue can be something that you find worthwhile to indeed change your beliefs, the unfortunate thing is it may be difficult to have an open mind and come to a conclusion, although i don't tend to subject endless hours to this topic.



[edit on 22-8-2008 by cpdaman]

[edit on 22-8-2008 by Dr Love]

The only conspiracy I believed about 911 was the stupidity of our leaders who passed laws forbidding the sharing of information between law enforcement entities so that no one knew exactly what was going on with our inteligence gatherers. Nobody could ask another agency or pass information that might have done something to stop this. If this was an inside job, like so many believe, it was the biggest FUBAR I have ever encountered. I still believe the original rendition of what transpired. The inside job was the turf wars within our own bureaucracies that screwed the pooch.

Zindo

the topic of insider trading was something that seemed to be hushed up quickly, not sure if anyone delved into that much, but i believe certain employees in many companys (40 something companys) were found to have insider knowledge (massive shortings of airlines i.e about 30 times more than normal)

now again my mind is still open

and people who don't undestand my "rule" #1 , posted above may jump to the conclusion that 1. this is impossible so many people would have talked about this, or something along those lines (now as strange as it may sound the last sentence is sometimes enough "ammunition" to change some one's mind or beliefs". and on the flip side others go off the "deep end" and say " all these people were "in" on it.


well my understanding was a gag order was placed on anyone familiar with the insider trading leading up to 9/11. a good way to silence people is threaten them with jail sentences, esp should it be for reason's of national security (although that terms is sometimes used very loosely)

and also * should this be a well constructed conspiracy* it would be very compartmentalized i.e different people have different and incomplete levels of understanding as to what will occur" i.e they know there will likely be an event, and out of that air lines may go bankrupt

so they place a wager, interesting to note that not all the money was collected from those wagers, some people probably felt a bit too sick once they realized what transpired

[edit on 22-8-2008 by cpdaman]

reply to post by Jake the Dog Man


If the theories from the truthers are so laughable at best.

Why would a magazine Popular Mechanics devote a issue debunking
laughable theories from nutcases.

I would change my mind if the Government released a video of the
plane hitting the Pentagon. But, until then ill be searching for the truth.

reply to post by driveshaft08


One of the greatest debunks by popular mechanics:

Conspiracy theorists insist there was no plane wreckage at the Pentagon. "In reality, a Boeing 757 was never found," claims pentagonstrike.co.uk, which asks the question, "What hit the Pentagon on 9/11?"

Well here's your proof! Any questions?

Aftermath: Wreckage from Flight 77 on the Pentagon's lawn — proof that a passenger plane, not a missile, hit the building. (Photograph by AP/Wide World Photos)

Well this guy saw some wreckage so it must be true...

FACT: Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"

OKAY? Any more questions?

YEAH! Wheres the rest of the FKING wreckage?!

OH and by the way yeah they found the black box BUT...

Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld said the data on the cockpit voice data recorder was unrecoverable.

911review.org...

The fact is:

Nearly 100,000 flight recorders have been installed in commercial aircraft over the past four decades. The prices of the latest models generally range from $10,000 to $20,000. Their survival rate has greatly improved in recent years as the FAA has raised the certification requirements. Although older recorders using magnetic tape were susceptible to fire damage, no solid-state device has been destroyed in an accident to date.

[edit on 23-8-2008 by Techsnow]

reply to post by Cool Hand Luke



I concur with what you have said. I have found that coming to this site has made me more skeptical than opening my mind further. I want facts, not theories. I am still reading through a lot of the 9/11 threads (have just recently started as I thought my mind was already made up) and am impressed by some of the posters (more on the side of the skeptics). Has my mind been changed? Not sure, but my *mind set* has most certainly been changed.