Report: Hacker Uncovers Proof Chinese Gymnast Is Underage

Originally posted by Sheeper

Am I on your ignore button or something, how can you ask that question when I had given you the reason IN THE POST RIGHT ABOVE! Some people are dense.

wow - some people here just think that the whole world revolves and this site around themselves.

i didn't reply to your post because i never saw it until now. i was replying to the previous poster when i took a phone call and then had to go straight out for the night... hence my typing my post overlapped you typing yours and i finished it off, hit send and then switched my monitor off.

please try and understand that people do have real lives outside of ats and also try not to be so rude to other members here - it only makes you look worse and brings the site down.

as to your post, i still think the olympics should have a minimum age requirement of 16 regardless of the sport but that there should be an under 16 olympics also. thawt way the up and coming stars can compete against their peers.

I've read thru most of the comments on this thread and all I have to say is. Innocent before proven guilty.

I don't know what the big deal is with the investigation - why not just cooperate and provide unaltered birth certificates, hospital/physician records & school class pictures to compare ages with classmates they went to school with or what ever proves the girls age. If they turn out to be 16 the only egg will be on the faces of the accusers.

At this point, there will be investigations in their hometowns. People will be going to their schools & where they were born etc. It's not too hard to figure out what year they were in which class and who the other students were. What are they going to do photo shop school class photos from the past and collect all the old photos and hand out new ones to fake classmates the same age? They'd have to alter two photo records for each instance of change and each person in both classes would have to have their old photos found & destroyed. No matter how many people change & hide records they will never be able to hide them all.

It's just to complicated to lie - that's why I try not to. Governments do it all the time - but not usually merely for gold medals.

Somebody will eventually stand up and tell the truth. The longer the lies go on the worse it will be in the long run for everyone.

What did you expect happens when you become the best in the world at something? They knew they get tested for drugs and their past will be looked at not just for eligibility, but because people want to know who they are & where they came from and how they got to be the best. When people start seeing records from old competitions that the ages don't match up - that is a problem. The world is not stupid - you aren't the first ones trying to lie.

Obviously there is a problem when they showed up and competed in other events and listed their birth dates differently than they did for the Olympics. Then China attempts to delete the records, but they forgot there's always copy's & backups in the computer world. It's called Computer Forensics and it's one of the jobs I do from time to time - recovering lost data.

Now - I don't agree with the 16 year old rule, but obviously the people involved in the sport made it for a reason and everyone who participates has to go by the same rules.

Allot of people think this will go away or that they can hide the truth - they're wrong. Everyone has leaves traces & records from the day they were born and those records will be followed deleted or not. There is too much data at this point to erase two years of someones existence completely, because everyone they come in contact with and everything they've ever done would have to be altered.

By NANCY ARMOUR and JOHN LEICESTER, Associated Press Writers

Age falsification has been a problem in gymnastics since the 1980s after the minimum age was raised from 14 to 15 to protect young athletes from serious injuries. The minimum age was raised to its current 16 in 1997. Younger gymnasts are considered to have an advantage because they are more flexible and are likely to have an easier time doing the tough skills the sport requires. They also aren't as likely to have a history of injuries or fear of failure.

North Korea was barred from the 1993 world championships after FIG officials discovered Kim Gwang Suk, the gold medalist on uneven bars in 1991, was listed as 15 for three years in a row. Romania admitted in 2002 that several gymnasts' ages had been falsified, including Olympic medalists Gina Gogean and Alexandra Marinescu.

Even China's own Yang Yun, a double bronze medalist in Sydney, said during an interview aired on state broadcaster China Central Television that she was 14 during the 2000 Games

News Link

[edit on 23-8-2008 by verylowfrequency]

Originally posted by Goradd
and athletes have to go through testing so YES the Americans didn't CHEAT!...plus there isn't documents and rosters laying around saying the athletes used enhancers..

Some people seem to think because tests come up negative there is no drug use going on. This couldn't be further from the truth. The USA has been doping since at least 1986 with new drugs always staying one step ahead of the testers. It is a fact that the USOC has been covering up positive drug tests among its athletes. It is a fact that several US athletes were banned from this Games for doping, or dropped out before they were banned.

Please stop saying the US doesn't cheat. It's ignorant. Fact is, most countries do try and cheat to win. The USA is very good at it. China is learning. Maybe that is why all the sour grapes. What, the US thinks it is the only country allowed to cheat?

Originally posted by TheComte

Originally posted by Goradd
and athletes have to go through testing so YES the Americans didn't CHEAT!...plus there isn't documents and rosters laying around saying the athletes used enhancers..

Some people seem to think because tests come up negative there is no drug use going on. This couldn't be further from the truth. The USA has been doping since at least 1986 with new drugs always staying one step ahead of the testers. It is a fact that the USOC has been covering up positive drug tests among its athletes. It is a fact that several US athletes were banned from this Games for doping, or dropped out before they were banned.

Please stop saying the US doesn't cheat. It's ignorant. Fact is, most countries do try and cheat to win. The USA is very good at it. China is learning. Maybe that is why all the sour grapes. What, the US thinks it is the only country allowed to cheat?

True!

I find it interesting how some are making this China vs America. There are other countries that are also commenting on the age of these Chinese gymnast - even before the Olympics.

Originally posted by Goradd
and athletes have to go through testing so YES the Americans didn't CHEAT!

Marion Jones never tested positive for drugs either. But how was she caught doping?. Of course, the Americans are always a step ahead of the drug game and will never be stupid enough to be caught like that again. Marion Jones went through hundreds of drug test through her career and never tested positive and the only way she was caught was because she admitted to taking drugs.

Now Imagine 2000 compared to 2008, the improvements the Americans made in drugs, that is why most America's medals are without judges because a drug can't make a judge like you better or make you perform better. We all know America is a drug cheat, its common knowledge

Poor performance? Who has five medals and the Most Coveted Gold Medal and the Queen of Gymnastics...thats right an American!.

Its your own worthless opinion. On the other hand the article below sums my point up nicely.

So this was the one that America wanted, and the team gymnastics event was more important than the individual because it was a stronger expression of national strength. And when we add to that the fact that China had won the women’s team event at the 2006 World Championships with the US placed second, and that those positions had been reversed the following year, the perception of the rivalry grew.

Link

I don't think it is the American's with the sour grapes.

I guarantee you if Marion Jones didn't get caught at first - - plenty more athletes from around the world didn't either. Science tends to lack behind "mother of invention".

But - Marion did become a target. Perhaps we need to go back years and test every athlete's sample that ran against her.

I believe the new rules allow for sample storage and testing up to 7 years.

Marion Jones never tested positive for drugs either. But how was she caught doping?. Of course, the Americans are always a step ahead of the drug game and will never be stupid enough to be caught like that again. Marion Jones went through hundreds of drug test through her career and never tested positive and the only way she was caught was because she admitted to taking drugs.

Now Imagine 2000 compared to 2008, the improvements the Americans made in drugs, that is why most America's medals are without judges because a drug can't make a judge like you better or make you perform better. We all know America is a drug cheat, its common knowledge

Poor performance? Who has five medals and the Most Coveted Gold Medal and the Queen of Gymnastics...thats right an American!.

When drug tests are taken there are specific drugs that they look for and if that drug is NOT on the list then that isn't Cheating...

There's nothing wrong with giving yourself an advantage by the Rules...in the case AGE IS the RULE

I like how ChinaWhite is Now insulting people..HAHA...and YEs the All-Around is the most Important!...i think i get ChinaWhite MAD...muahhhhh

[edit on 23-8-2008 by Goradd]

[edit on 23-8-2008 by Goradd]

[edit on 23-8-2008 by Goradd]

Originally posted by Goradd
Marion Jones went through hundreds of drug test through her career and never tested positive and the only way she was caught was because she admitted to taking drugs.

In my opinion - that is a bit naive to think Marion Jones just voluntarily - out of the goodness or guilt of her heart - said "oh by the way I doped".

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Memysabu
It is actually easier for her to win those metals being younger.
Thats why. Height has a lot to do with gymnastics. As a gymnast grows
they will lose their ability to preform it perfectly and start stumbling etc...

It was a big big thing with Domonique Moceanu.

People forget that Nadia Comaneci - probably the best balance beam gymnast ever - had difficulties after she began to develop. I believe her Olympics was prior to the age restrictions.

Bela Karoly - who has been out spoken about the Chinese Gymnast's ages - - and I trust his judgment - he's probably witnessed more gymnasts then anyone - - is against the age restriction.

LOL you mentioned Bela, youre extremely informed.
Thank you for that flash back

Originally posted by Goradd
When drug tests are taken there are specific drugs that they look for and if that drug is NOT on the list then that isn't Cheating.

ANY drug which is performance enhancing is CHEATING, the rules state that. They have a list of current drugs that are illegal and clearly state that any future drug which un-naturally enhances an athletes ability is illegal.

The cheating Americans know they are one step of the game and most likey a decade ahead of anyone else when it comes to drug use. Its common knowledge that America dopes which is the main reason why Americas medals are all in non-judging events where the drugs have the greatest effect. Marion jones the American glamour girl and champion of the those olympics for the Americans was their first prototype of cheats, many more will and have followed

Anyone here read Chinese?

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Of course, we should all keep in mind that any "sport" the involves "judging" is set-up to be rigged from the start.





[edit on 25-8-2008 by BowVoodoo]

Just throwing a question out there to people who think that all the chinese athletes should be stripped of their medals and banned from future olympics (2010 and/or 2012) do you think its an appropriate punishment for the honest Chinese athletes who have followed the rules, and have trained hard to be there and represent their country

Assuming the Chinese did in fact cheat, I believe there should be some sort of punishment. Letting something like this go unpunished is truely wrong. However working out an appropriate punishment is challenging b.c of the situation. Did the athlete lie, or was there pressure from the govt? There are so many variables at play in this scenario.

If He manipulated her own papers without the govt knowing, I think every Chinese athlete should not be punished


Sorry if this message is jumping around a bit, I'm about to run out the door. But if you can decipher anything from it, more power to ya

:-) Later guys

reply to post by LiquidMirage


Anyone can claim anything.
Who cares anyway - isnt it even more a shame to be beaten by someone younger?
- Well realistic at any point in life really.
Oh, and the advantage bit - well suppose Michael Phelps should be excluded due to his genetically longer arms. (Some rare disease he has - It was in the news here in Hungary.) Seems its an unfair advantage.

People, I cant believe they get hung up over such trivial things - no wonder there is the Russia/GA conflict - of course not the state.

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 25-8-2008 by dAlen]

I doubt this is just gonna go away. Individuals will continue to investigate.

I understand not creating a political or international incident by Official parties - - even if I don't like it.

Ignorance shows in not understanding why these younger athletes have an advantage - - plus rules are rules.

As far as Bela Karoli - - I'm not holding him up on the pedestal of sainthood. I'm saying gymnastics has been his life long business - - I trust his judgment in this matter.