August 21st: NIST report states WTC-7 "Did not collapse from explosives"

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Too bad none of those 8 reports are official reports from the FBI.

Too bad you did not specify anything other than "1 official report".

It's never ending, even if someone were to post an FBI report, never mind the official 9/11 commission report which used some of the FBI's own work in the investigation (PENTTBOM), you would still change it around somehow.

Keep spiralling down, eventually one day you'll figure out there is no bottom.

Down, down, down...

Remember, this is a government job we're talking about--it's not as interested in pacifying kooks on the internet as it is with covering the asses of the various companies who could be held liable for billions in damages. Never attribute to nefarious intent what can be explained by run-of-the-mill corruption.

Originally posted by Soloist
Too bad you did not specify anything other than "1 official report".

Too bad you do not even know what official reports are. You still cannot show any official reports or physical evidence to support the official story.

But i can post evidence to question the official story.

Too bad you say things like :

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
But you still cannot provide any official reports from the FBI or NTSB that show parts found match the plane.

and contradict yourself.

Down, down, down ...

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Too bad you do not even know what official reports are. You still cannot show any official reports or physical evidence to support the official story.

I might be misunderstanding you wildly here but of course we can show official reports to support the official story. NIST NCSTAR 1 through 1-9A is a collection of around 11,000 pages supporting the 'official story'. Purdue, Edinburgh, Weidlinger etc have all conducted investigations of various parts of the 'official story' and have not found issue with it.

I hope I am misunderstanding you, because otherwise I don't really know what else to say.

Originally posted by exponent
NIST NCSTAR 1 through 1-9A is a collection of around 11,000 pages supporting the 'official story'. .

Again NIST is not an official investigating agency for 9/11. In case you did not know the FBI is the main investigating agency with the NTSB as technical help.

Also NIST reports have been questioned or debunked.



[edit on 26-8-2008 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by Seymour Butz




Here is some fairly compelling evidence that the steel had been melted; along with concrete and everything else in between.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Again NIST is not an official investigating agency for 9/11. In case you did not know the FBI is the main investigating agency with the NTSB as technical help.

I don't really understand your point here, are you complaining that the FBI has not released a report detailing WTC7s collapse? The FBI has released a lot of information which clearly indicates their position on the matter. You can't seriously be taking the position that the FBI doesn't support the 'official story'?

Also NIST reports have been questioned or debunked.

Questions are par for the course, I have questions about the new NIST report but that doesn't mean it's wrong. Debunked of course is a matter of opinion, I have yet to see any convincing material in the truth movement's favour.

Originally posted by exponent

Also NIST reports have been questioned or debunked.

Questions are par for the course, I have questions about the new NIST report but that doesn't mean it's wrong. Debunked of course is a matter of opinion, I have yet to see any convincing material in the truth movement's favour.

how about incorrect math equations, failure to properly convery units of measure, and the computer model that had no real physics applied.

that is debunked.

Originally posted by Azrael75
how about incorrect math equations, failure to properly convery units of measure, and the computer model that had no real physics applied.

Could you please cite this? I can't exactly just accept this off your word, I'm sure you understand.

Originally posted by exponent

Originally posted by Azrael75
how about incorrect math equations, failure to properly convery units of measure, and the computer model that had no real physics applied.

Could you please cite this? I can't exactly just accept this off your word, I'm sure you understand.

could you please read through this thread and see the very well illustrated examples of both those things. could you please show me the 3d model with real world physics applied?

reply to post by ThroatYogurt


Hey Mr. Throat Yo,

You haven't responded to my reply yet. What's the deally yo man?

Why do you trust anything this administration is doing when you have so much distain for BUSHY????

Originally posted by exponent
I don't really understand your point here, are you complaining that the FBI has not released a report detailing WTC7s collapse?

The FBI has not released any official report that details WTC 7, they have not released thier crime scene reports to the public.

Debunked of course is a matter of opinion, I have yet to see any convincing material in the truth movement's favour.

I have posted NIST own reports that state they failed to recover steel from building 7 for testing , which means their latest report has been debunked. How can you trust a report that doe not have a proper investigation and proper testing?

Originally posted by Azrael75
could you please read through this thread and see the very well illustrated examples of both those things. could you please show me the 3d model with real world physics applied?

I've had a quick read through, and I haven't seen any well illustrated examples yet, but perhaps I missed them. The models with real world physics applied are shown throughout NCSTAR, specifically NCSTAR 1-2,5,6, NCSTAR 1-9 and NCSTAR 1-9A.

Replies to ULTIMA

The FBI has not released any official report that details WTC 7, they have not released thier crime scene reports to the public.

I'm not sure what exactly the FBI has released detailing WTC7. It seems unlikely they would do any sort of specialist investigation rather than NIST, and in fact NIST have done and released their investigation. You can't be making some sort of claim that the FBI doesn't agree with NIST are you?

I have posted NIST own reports that state they failed to recover steel from building 7 for testing , which means their latest report has been debunked. How can you trust a report that doe not have a proper investigation and proper testing?

By this standard, no report can ever be 'proper'. Can you tell me your requirements for proving Controlled Demolition?

[edit on 27-8-2008 by exponent]

Originally posted by exponent
I'm not sure what exactly the FBI has released detailing WTC7. It seems unlikely they would do any sort of specialist investigation rather than NIST, and in fact NIST have done and released their investigation.

Don't you know that the WTC was a crime scene? Anytime an airplane crash is considered a crime the FBI is in charge and does a criminal investigation with the NTSB for technical assistance.

NIST is not a official investigator for 9/11 and does not do criminal investigations. Also thier report has been questioned.


[edit on 27-8-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1Don't you know that the WTC was a crime scene? Anytime an airplane crash is considered a crime the FBI is in charge and does a criminal investigation with the NTSB for technical assistance.

Indeed, and the FBIs reports regarding the attacks are part of the 911 commission report. However, the FBI has no reason to comment specifically on WTC7, as no crime was committed directly involving the building. Its failure was incidental to the attacks.

NIST is not a official investigator for 9/11 and does not do criminal investigations. Also thier report has been questioned.

They are however an official investigator for the non criminal aspects, and that is what we are debating here. Also, as I have already explained, questions do not make things wrong inherently. I question controlled demolition theories, but I am sure that does not change your belief in them.

Seriously, without asking questions, what point are you trying to convey here? It seems like you're suggesting that the FBI doesn't agree with NIST, or that the NIST report is somehow irrelevant? I can't figure it out because there are many agencies involved with 911 at all possible levels. The FBI is unlikely to issue a structural report on WTC7, and NIST is unlikely to criminally investigate terrorists.

Originally posted by exponent
Indeed, and the FBIs reports regarding the attacks are part of the 911 commission report. However, the FBI has no reason to comment specifically on WTC7, as no crime was committed directly involving the building. Its failure was incidental to the attacks.

Gee you really need to do some research. The WTC was a crims scene. The FBI by law has to do a criminal investigation, including the plane and the building.

The 9/11 commission has nothing to do with criminal investigation done by the FBI.

It seems like you're suggesting that the FBI doesn't agree with NIST, or that the NIST report is somehow irrelevant? .

Let me state this as simple as i can. It does not matter what the NIST reports state. The only report that is official and matters is the FBI crime scene reports.

Also no other reports agree with NIST. NIST is the only agency that state the towers collapsed from a combination of plane impact and fire.

All other agencies reports state that it was the fire alone that casued the collaspe of the towers.


[edit on 27-8-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Gee you really need to do some research. The WTC was a crims scene. The FBI by law has to do a criminal investigation, including the plane and the building.

The FBI investigation was PENTTBOM, I am aware of this.

The 9/11 commission has nothing to do with criminal investigation done by the FBI.

The FBI provided documentation and evidence to the commission, this is summarised in the report. There's also the FOIA documents Mike W has. Even so, this doesn't seem relevant to the point you make below.

Let me state this as simple as i can. It does not matter what the NIST reports state. The only report that is official and matters is the FBI crime scene reports.

I don't know how you have managed to convince yourself of this, but it is entirely wrong. The NIST reports are the official building and fire safety reports regarding the 911 attacks. If you want to know who the hijackers were, you ask the FBI, if you want to know why the buildings collapsed, you ask NIST. It's that simple.

Also no other reports agree with NIST. NIST is the only agency that state the towers collapsed from a combination of plane impact and fire.

Not exactly, but it's pretty much irrelevant to your point, you're seriously trying to suggest that we should ignore the NIST report because it's somehow not official? I have no idea how you could possibly be trying to argue this and I'm not going to do us both the dishonour of arguing it in any serious manner.

Originally posted by exponent
I don't know how you have managed to convince yourself of this, but it is entirely wrong.

I get this from law that states the FBI becomes the main investigating agency when an aircraft crash is considered a crime.

you're seriously trying to suggest that we should ignore the NIST report because it's somehow not official?

Well 2 reasons to ignore it, its not official and it has been questioned.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
I get this from law that states the FBI becomes the main investigating agency when an aircraft crash is considered a crime.

Yes, and the FBI did investigate, that investigation was named PENTTBOM and its conclusions are well known.

Well 2 reasons to ignore it, its not official

You have claimed the FBI report is official because by law they are required to investigate. Well you seem to be ignoring that by law NIST must also investigate:

Wikipedia Link
The National Construction Safety Team Act (H.R. 4687) , signed into law Oct 1, 2002, provides for the establishment of investigative teams to assess building performance and emergency response and evacuation procedures in the wake of any building failure that has resulted in substantial loss of life or that posed significant potential of substantial loss of life.

and it has been questioned.

I have repeatedly addressed this and you have yet to answer my questions to you. Simply questioning a report does not make it invalid, if such questions are investigated and prove to be valid criticisms, that makes what they are addressing, invalid. This has not happened, and while it's obvious you believe it has, I doubt you have any strong evidence. I am not sure if it would be appropriate to discuss in this thread, but as I am the ATS newbie I will go along with whatever you decide.