Ron Paul Speaks On Georgia VS. Russia

Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
but he is very pro-freedom and is open to anyone asking him for an interview.

Ron Paul is not pro-freedom. This interview proves that. He is an unadulterated Anti-American hack.

Yawn...

You again...and just how is he Anti-American?

Ron Paul is the man

the whole Obama vs Hillary was a whitewash to pull America's attention away from this one man whom they fear

his views are right on

it is a shame we dont to get see more of him


peace

Originally posted by Riposte


the Georgians are not fighting to take back South Ossetia. They are fighting for the rest of Georgia, if you hadn't noticed.

So, let me get this straight Georgia shelled South Ossetia to fight for Georgian independence?

reply to post by thefreepatriot

South ossetia is not part of Georgia... So exactly how does Georgia already have this [i.e. South Ossetia]?

This is factually incorrect. This is why, for example, in trying to provide a balanced position Ron Paul gave the analogy of "How would we feel if Russians were on the border and started claiming that New Mexico is part of Mexico?" (Listen from about 4:50 in video 1: he states this analogy to the Georgian perspective before going on to explaining the Russian perspective.)

If you are in any doubt, here is a quick explanation based on the attempt by South Ossetian authorities to force the issue of independence from Georgia via a referendum not sanctioned by the central government:

The Georgian side considers this move by de facto authorities in Tskhinvali as a provocative and unconstitutional action, and warns that this decision will further raise the tensions in the Georgian-Ossetian conflict zone...

...On September 13, 2006, the Council of Europe (CoE) Secretary General Terry Davis commented on the problem, stating that

“The secessionist authorities of the South Ossetian region of Georgia are wasting time and effort on the organisation of a "referendum on independence" in November... I do not think that anyone will recognise the result of such a referendum. If the people in power in South Ossetia are genuinely committed to the interest of the people they claim to represent, they should engage in meaningful negotiations with the Georgian government in order to find a peaceful, internationally accepted outcome.

Source:en.wikipedia.org...




reply to post by Unit541

Georgia invaded S. Ossetia. - True

False. No army can 'invade' its own country.

Georgia invaded S. Ossetia before Russia's military response - True (couldn't very well be a "response" if the reverse were true)

Not necessarily true at all.

1) Russian forces have been massing in the area for many months, suggesting a major move on their part was being prepared for.
2) Russian passports have been issued (in Georgian territory where Russia has no legal jurisdiction) - a clear act of provocation.
3) Russian 'peacekeepers' were clearly highly partisan, as the local population is overwhelmingly ethnically Russian. It is highly credible that they did nothing to hinder separatist attacks on Georgian forces, to say the least.
4) Russia had everything to gain from a conflict. Through annexation they could gain a 'buffer zone' with a country that has applied for NATO membership. It should also be borne in mind that they had the overwhelming force required to guarantee success.
5) Most likely (i.e. both consistent with what is most logical and with what accords with reports from the ground) South Ossetian insurgents fired on Georgian forces in small-scale skirmishes (-which has been happening on and off for years, infuriating the Georgian government). The Georgian government then authorized a strong response to eliminate the militia responsible. Around 50 civilians died as a result of the fighting, which took place in an urban area. The fact that so many civilians died was used (and grossly exaggerated) by Russia as a pretext to occupy South Ossetia - and invade Georgia (to neutralize Georgian military assets).
6) It would fit with Russia's geopolitical aims to assume that the Russian 'peacekeepers' (i.e. Russian soldiers present in small numbers,) on explicit orders from Moscow, acted as agents provocateurs, knowing that any Georgian backlash would provide just the excuse needed to justify the accomplishment of the Russian government's objectives in the region. I admit this last point is speculation. But informed speculation.

S. Ossetians want to be part of Georgia - False

It makes no difference. Only a referendum on independence sanctioned by their government would have any legal force. South Georgia has substituted military uprising for the democratic process.

The only reason people are not seeing through all this is that Georgia shot itself in the foot by not minimizing civilian casualties. The disproportionate response from the Georgian military has enabled the Russian media to portray these events in a very convenient light.

If you keep digging it is apparent that not the Georgian government, not Russia or even South Ossetia was inclined to settle this dispute through negotiation. It was probably just a matter of time before a flare-up occurred. But as is often the case in war, first the Georgian government miscalculated, then the Russian government. Both overplayed their hand.

And both have ended up with egg on their face.

Originally posted by thefreepatriot

Originally posted by Riposte
reply to post by thefreepatriot

 

You're kidding, right? You use polls as a way to influence your geopolitical judgment?

I beleive in democracy... In a democracy the will of the people is reflected in the goverment... also the opinion of the people... The polls represent the exact opposite of what the administration is doing and the main stream media.. which shows that this is in fact not a democracy... I use polls to see what AMERICANS beleive in and want... because this is a DEMOCRACY and as such our geopolitcal affairs should be based on the peoples will not of the few... this is called FASCISM or DICTATORSHIP.. Lets face it you would never say the truth in this forum.. your employers would never allow it

[edit on 21-8-2008 by thefreepatriot]

Here here!!!

These Neocons have utter contempt for the will of the American people. They don't care that the American people do not want war. They want WAR and want to impose it on us, whether we want it or not.

I will admit I didn't read all of this, because it got WAY off topic...but, to post something ON TOPIC...the arguing about who is at fault is a moot point. We need a change in our tactics when it comes to foreign policy. We don't need to be directly involved with any of this. Diplomatically, sure. But in a military sense, this is only our problem because of misguided foreign policy and a mindset of both policing the world and establishing an empire of sorts, when we need not do either. The US has, or at least, had and could once again have, the ability to defend our region from anyone, and to supply all of our needs domestically. This doesn't mean we HAVE to....but the fact that we can should be the basis for our foreign policy. Our first priority should be a strong, stable, and secure US, not playing Cold War games with Russia. Much as Paul has been saying for quite a while now.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


thanks for sharing this...


we need to do something...

On September 10, 2008, we want to deliver ONE MILLION signatures to
Congress urging them to exercise their Constitutional authority and mandate to
hold this President - and all future Presidents - accountable.

Please sign NOW! And ask everyone you know to sign.
The power to change the world is in your hands!
www.kucinich.us...

NEXT STEP: Large Scale Hunger Fast

AMERICANS HUNGERING FOR FREEDOM IN AMERICA

BE IN DC: CONSTITUTION DAY, SEPTEMBER 17TH!
www.wethepeoplefoundation.org...


NESARA
www.nesara.us...
www.white-knights911.net...

reply to post by Skipper1975


But that is pointless, when most of Congress is just as much to blame. Don't you see that blaming the current administration is just the perfect scapegoat for those who will remain in power?

Originally posted by antar
I still want to WRITE IN RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT

He really was our last great hope, problem is he is white, male,he does not cuddle with corporate infrastructure, he knows how many houses he owns, he values the constitution and is not afraid to actually put his money where his mouth is, and likes the American flag up right and places his hand over his heart when he salutes it...

I have a feeling he is going to endorse Barr at his convention...so I plan on voting for Barr

reply to post by yellowcard


I dont think he will endorse Bob Barr. I think if anything he would endorse Chuck Baldwin. Then again maybe Im wrong wouldnt be the first time as you know

reply to post by mattifikation



As I am the former stripper who went on MSNBC's Tucker to talk about Ron Paul and seeing as Ron Paul himself was pleasant enough about it, I'm glad that somebody saw the show and remembered his name.

michelle

edit to add that I agree with the idea of not voting in the presidential race. I can't vote for the R or D and since my own party nominated Barr, I left it. (I was at the convention and Barr didn't get a single vote from me then either.) I think it better to abstain than to give support to the system.


[edit on 21-8-2008 by micheshi]

Well the thing is that the Russian navy will be coming to Venezeula. They have notified the U.S already. This whole thing is started with the U.S. going back on the promise it made at the making of NATO. The U.S. said they would not expand any farther into the region. Then Georgia was the first nation that attacked South Ossetia ( not Russia). Georgia is the one that tried to bring back South Ossetia back into their hands. With Georgia being friends of the U.S. , this is thought of as a threat to Russia if Georgia took over South Ossetia or Abkhazia. Don't be fooled Georgia drew first blood.

reply to post by micheshi


Hope you didn't get the impression that I was demoralizing strippers. I'm not one of those people who cares what other people do for a living, as long as it's legal and isn't hurting somebody else.

I was just pointing out that the MSM pulled a pretty good smear campaign.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


In the first video Ron Paul states " the most radical of neocons think that Mccain benefited from this "... Paul speaking on the Georgia - Russia conflict.

My opinion from the get go was that this conflict seemed very convenient.

I swear we should have all these men strung for the sake of our democracy.
If this is true, it would imply that these men will/would do absolutely ANYTHING to further their goals and promote their agendas. I am thinking - terrorism - california energy crisis - gas prices - voting machines ....

Basically many problems that have began to happen daily aren't being fixed and things are getting better and worse. Bush has gone far with the war in Iraq and since when is war peace? And now were starting to get problems with Russia.

Unless people snap out of their ignorance, were screwed. If we didn't have any big problems we wouldn't need a leader that we should know we can't entirely depend on. Now when it comes to Ron Paul, he would make a good president...Most people I know agree that they don't even care who the next president is because they're each not really going anywhere. Ron Paul was basically screwed out of the presidential race. If you're still in support I would suggest going to campaignforliberty.com.

People need to take more responsibility for the situation. We must do our part to help. What I think of Ron Paul is that he is a great person. He could have helped a lot as president and the president is a major factor as the one people like to call leader but what I mean here is that people need to get off their lazy asses and take responsibility...The current president(Bush) just sees the problem with Russia and Georgia and takes action by using violence. He became our president, Can we really be sure what will happen in the future with the next president?
...

Ron Paul is a true hero in my humble opinion, and I'm not even from the USA.

Originally posted by Riposte

Originally posted by manson_322
though I hate USA with a fervour for its meddling and genocide in third world countries ,

Awww, does genocide upset you?

56,000 Georgian driven from their homes:
www.msnbc.msn.com...

Chechen mercenaries sent into Georgia to terrorize the populace:
www.nypost.com...

"90 percent of [Gori's] citizens have fled, and the tiny remainder live amid a violent mayhem overseen by Russian occupation forces...

“They are burning the houses. From most of the houses they are taking everything. They are stealing everything, even such things as toothbrushes and toilets. They are taking the toilets. Imagine. They are taking broken refrigerators."
www.city-journal.org...



And the real kicker, Russia arms Syria. So I guess Israel can invade Syria now huh?
www.timesonline.co.uk...

It si n absolute unm,itigated fact that Georgia was the first in committing war crimes and shelled the Ossettians in their homes - fact.

It is the offensive (and blatant) collusion of mainstream media and government propaganda I have seen since the lead up to the Gulf War, there is almost NO information regarding the reality of this war in American or British press - move beyond this and the breadth and scope of collusion is apparent.

Your links are sound - however only in highlighting the sickening spin being placed on this war.

The truth is out there and the reality is starting to be acknowledged as people are realising just how much they have been lied to and the media is mitigating their position with articles touching on the idea that there may be "some confusion" as to who started it - break away south ossettians or the georgian army - however there is NO DOUBT WHAT SO EVER IT WAS NOT RUSSIA - NONE.

2,100 South Ossetians were murdered in their homes - By Georgia - This is a FACT.

You are a stooge of the Great Game.

reply to post by mattifikation


I didn't think that at all. I just found it funny that it was mentioned here at ATS. I probably should have expressed my thoughts differently but I was finishing a project for work and taking only a short break. (only stripped briefly and now work in petroleum industry but freely admit that the strippers I worked with were a whole head better than most of the people I've met in corporate America. ;o)

reply to post by Riposte


Ithink georgia was the beginning. this week, US and Poland were finishing the contracts for the new rocket shield. Rice was in Poland, and of course, this is a serious threat against russia. thats the porpose of our gov´t.

when russia would start a missile attack against the US, the rocket shield in poland would react and destroy these in the air.
so russia surely is in a worse situation than before, tactically seen.

so russia surely is in a worse situation than before, tactically seen.

No, not really.

The whole question of war relates finally to the ability of your people to survive and recover after the first main strike. In this regard, Americans are as prepared (for nuclear fallout) as a drunk teenager on a beach during spring break. They have been purposefully dumbed down like cows, ready to be roasted in nuclear fire. Any American who owned a bomb shelter was seen as a nutcase in their own country. Is that what you'd call mental preparedness for nuclear war? Strategy means surviving beyond the first attack.

It is very easy to dig an effective makeshift nuke shelter (with the help of a few shovel-wielding friends) and cover it with logs, then dirt, then hide inside, safe from radiation, but any American who tried to practice this would be laughed at by his neighbors.

Russia, conversely, has always drilled their people to get underground, fight for survival in those tough first days, and also how to decontaminate properly, etc. Russia was the one to put down the bulk of the German Army during WW2, so I'd say their people, as a whole, are tougher and more generally hardened against the mental realities of death and horror happening on their own streets.

Most people in Western Moneyocracy states are fully ignorant of the effects of nuke radiation, or who on Earth is actually prepared to absorb radiation. No, it is not the Russians who are least prepared for a few extra rads.

Anyway, Ron Paul is trying to talk to cattle here. Hes a nice guy, but deluded. All of America's leaders and most of its citizens, are under the Luciferian yoke. Their god is Mammon and he will drag most of them into a very large grave.

People of Russia? Eh, they never got a chance to even know who they are since their King was killed (All Kings had to go except the Dutch/German Hapsburgs, right?) and then they got ambushed by Wall Street nihilists like Trotsky and Lenin (see Anthony Sutton). I am still wondering what Russia can be once it gets a chance to enter the TWENTIETH CENTURY which it never really even got to do (well not like Americans did anyway).