On the Illuminati...

Hi to all. I'm new to this forum but it's been a while already since I found it and started browsing through its pages.
I've found a lot of great, quality threads and posts, but I have also found a lot of speculation on many subjects (of course, that is expected from themes such as conspiracies). This last thing, while entertaining and thought-provoking, only hurts this important subject. I am referring to the NWO/Illuminati conspiracy.
Have you ever thought why are you here posting this stuff? I think it's because we have few people outside to which we can talk about this. Most of them don't care, or don't believe these things. And when speculating with something as outrageous as "a group of people taking over the world", sound evidence, undeniable proof should accompany our claims. Otherwise, this only gets discredited more and more, which may be exactly what the allegedly Illuminati people want. Don't get me wrong: it's great when some people say "Hey, I believe this or that because..." but it's not great "Hey, Bush is actually a mouse-like creature, and I have absolutely no proof on why I know this"
Said that, I am a believer. I had the most amazing experiences in my life with some very strange things, but I have no proof to claim what I saw or happened to me so I just don't like talking about that. I think every discussion which has no proof or evidence just gets exactly what they, if indeed exist, want: general discredit about this themes.
Here are some thoughts of mine which I welcome if anyone with real, serious interest on these things can share his/her opinions:

1) UFO Propaganda: why everyone believes that UFO movies/shows are some Illuminati propaganda to prepare us for an alien invasion? Couldn't it just be a fascinating subject for mankind not to be alone in the Universe?
What evidence, proof do you have that this is actually true?
2) Some "researchers" date the Illuminati/NWO begginings a few centuries away. Some trace them back to Babylonia or even beyond. So... how come this people, over the course of perhaps thousands of years, have never slipped, haven't had a "renegade", haven't destroyed themselves feuding, etc.? Don't they have vices, cravings, that can overcome them?
3) We live in a dangerous world. EDTA is a potentially cancerous product, yet you can find it in many cosmetic products. Fluoride is nasty too. I have personal experiences about EMF/microwaves and I believe they're really nasty too. They seem to induce cancer on many people (but I have no hard proof so it's just a comment.) Cancer itself is epidemic when it was once a rare disease. Food, the soil where it grows and water are contaminated with very dangerous chemicals (Hell, it seems they want you to get cancer at any rate!). So how do they manage to get around all this stuff they created? They don't use cellphones/satellite communications/computers/etc.? They have an Eden-like untainted garden where they grow their food? They take their own food with them, always? There's no smoke on their venues/offices/whatever? Illuminati girls don't wear makeup?
4) From items 2, 3 I can sadly conclude that, maybe they're not humans, or at least not in the way you and I are. So what... Icke's right? Or maybe these things aren't true? What proof does Icke have that they're shapeshifting reptiles? What proof or real, sustainable evidence does he have about the 4th dimension or whatever?
5) The sincerest evidence I ever found on this subject was Aaron Russo's statement about Nicholas Rockefeller. Rockefeller Admitted Elite Goal Of Microchipped Population
I believe him because he had the connections, he was dying and maybe wanted to give some truth to the world before going. But again, no proof. No hidden camera.

I believe the're real and screwing the world. But how can we prove it?

One more thing: what if this NWO is actually what they want you to believe, when in reality the truth is something way different than this?

the illuminati started the MOMENT the hierarchical structure was created.

It was created because the masses refused to observe reality, and the masses still refuse to observe reality.

the mases deman the matrix(artificial womb) and teh illuminati supply it and the masses WILLINGLY choose to live in the matrix instead of observing reality.

for example
they claim the illuminati are to blame for everything. This is because they can observe reality and they want to play the blame game.
No one forces the masses to pull the trigger..yet they go to war and say "i was just following orders" they dont like to take responsiblity.

No one forces the masses to watch TV and believe the propaganda. Yet they watch it and believe it because they would rather believe the lies instead of observing reality.

See the illuminati=extension of nature for more info

but be prepared to take responsibility
or u will fall back on the argument that most of the people on this forum fall into..which iss.

The illuminati are greedy and powerhungy.
yet they dont see that the masses willlingly give power over and BEG the illuminati to take control so they dont take responsibility.

greedy?
who takes out the massive loans they can never pay back.


simple logic but they refuse to observe reality.

the blame game is pathetic.

You make a good point MrJelly when you say that there's nothing to gain in blaming them for everything. But I believe that you somehow are programmed from the time you are born to believe all these lies. Everything is done for you to think that the world works differently than it really does.
So for example: if you're born with a religious background, it'll be harder to put aside those values. So I can see what you mean when you say that they beg for it, but they're born in a society, created by the illuminati or whoever, which really gives them very little choice to "enlighten" and see the things for what they really are. I'll check the other thread as well.