Russia kidnaps/frees Georgian soldiers, steals U.S. vehicles

Russia kidnaps/frees Georgian soldiers, steals U.S. vehicles

www.msnbc.msn.com

POTI, Georgia - Russian soldiers took about 20 Georgians in military uniform prisoner at a key Black Sea port in western Georgia on Tuesday, blindfolding them and holding them at gunpoint, and commandeered American Humvees awaiting shipment back to the United States.

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It's one thing to continue violating a ceasefire you've signed and declared, and wholly another to begin stealing vehicles of a sovereign nation not officially involved in your conflict.

These humvees were heading back to the U.S., at port. They were not involved in the conflict, nor did they pose any threat. To my knowledge, there's nothing spectacular about the Humvee's -- Nothing for Russia to reverse-engineer or anything, more likely a show of bravado and defiance.
A bit childish, but, eh.



www.msnbc.msn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

This is where the "pillage and plunder" part of war comes in. They are plundering loot from a percieved enemy at this point it looks like.

I think it more like a systematic disarming process rather than looting. I do believe the US took V2 rockets and other items from Germany after WW2 and more recently privatised looting in Iraq by employing Halliburton and Bechtel. Might appears to be right and I do think Russia is matching the US poorly on this lesson.

russia is aiming to get they're whole army stolen by the U.S. if they keep this up.

reply to post by Iblis


be happy its not the patriot missile
or some new air defence system

I can't find a very good similarity using those comparisons -- To clarify:

The Humvee's were United States property.
They were not involved in the conflict.
They were being shipped back to the United States.

Seizing foreign assets that are within, but do not belong to a nation is not looting. These are not spoils of war -- Because you were not at war with the warring country.

How do you imagine to this, now that Russia is taking more brazen steps?

It's quite obvious what the Russians are doing.
They have insisted all along that the US is behind the Georgian aggression on South Ossentia. If the Russians have a buttload of US humvees to show the folks back home and in fact the entire world on Russia Today, it only perpetuates their myth that the US is the villian in all of this.

Its not a myth,

just what are american hummers doing in that part of the world then?

America was involved in this war, if people cant accept that its their own ignorant fault.

who's to say we didnt have hummers there?
we had troops.... why not transport for them>?

reply to post by Agit8dChop


Ever happen to think the American soldiers were dishing out food or medical aid?

Unconstitutional as it is, but unless you have proof Americans actually fired shots in that little conflict, you are making yourself look like a fool by assuming.

I never said they fired shots,

But weeks before Georiga attacked south Ossetta, America had troops on the ground training the army, while Israel was arming them.


sounds to me like we were involved!

do you need me to dig up proof?
Or do you willingly ignore that little well known fact?.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by Agit8dChop]

Originally posted by bios
It's quite obvious what the Russians are doing.
They have insisted all along that the US is behind the Georgian aggression on South Ossentia. If the Russians have a buttload of US humvees to show the folks back home and in fact the entire world on Russia Today, it only perpetuates their myth that the US is the villian in all of this.

I dont completely agree with your statement but I wanted to say I agree in a sense. I feel this is to point the finger at the USA. I do think we trained Georgian troops and I think they feel we are partially to blame.
Will be interesting to see what they say about this.

reply to post by bios



hardly a myth.
the CIA puts the tie eater in power during the rose revolution.
we arm him to the teeth.
give him tons of military funding.
we have our troops train georgian troops to prepare for the attack on ossetia, 3 weeks prior to it happening.
we turn a blind eye while he bombs civilians with non precision rockets in the middle of the night at the start of the olympics hoping that no one else in the world will notice.
we have our media completely ignore the story for the first 2 days, and instead talk about edwards love child.
when the media finally does cover the story it is biased in favor of the aggressor georgia.
we send all sorts of aid to the georgians and quickly send top advisors to protect our little tie eating cia puppet.

those humvees were not there by accident, and the russians are making a point about our involvement in the region. good for them. there is no damn reason for us to be in georgia.

myth? no, more like reality.

reply to post by Agit8dChop


You do know joint training operations take place all over the planet dont you?

We train with the Poles too, if conflict breaks out there, does that mean we are involved in it too?

reply to post by TheRepublic


Then I imagine you are a strict isolationist? Because, unless we are going to adopt an Isolationist foreign policy, then we are going to be sending advisors to our allies.

I have a question for you. What should our reaction be if Russia begins invading all of the countries that were once part of the Soviet Union? What should the rest of the world do?

I think that Russia is just trying to cause problems to instigate a war with the United States. It's pretty much how it's supposed to happen anyways. The all peverbial United States vs. Russia. It's only a matter of time before something huge happens and were thrusted into a big ol' happy fun time. I really don't know why people are so scared of the war anyways. Humanity needs a big ol' wake up call and that's what war tends to do! It's unavoidable! CANNOT BE PREVENTED!

And if those were my military vehicles, there would be plenty of dead Russians. Seriously Russia thinks they are the stuff right now. I will make Spetznas clean up my spent shells, which launched the bullets to kill their buddies. Sick of it! Just let it happen already!

Originally posted by Iblis


It's one thing to continue violating a ceasefire you've signed and declared, and wholly another to begin stealing vehicles of a sovereign nation not officially involved in your conflict.

Yeah, where is the tact in war. You'd think after bombing people to pieces and capturing prisoners of war they would stop and say "hey, sarge, ya know...I think this is a hummvee belongs to someone other than who we are fighting...yeah, look at the dashboard, it has on of those carpet protectors velcroed on and it says "Todd". This hummvee must belong to Todd."

"Well, leave it here then, private, we'll take the keys and post on craigslist for the owner..." says the sarge.

...

Yeah, that scenario is likely.

Fair play Russia I say...

How would the Americans feel if someone started giving the Taliban / Al-Queda or whoever some all terrain vehicles? You'd be accusing them of being terrorist associates...

Oh but Georgia has a pipe line....

Apologies America, please continue your business, you must know what is best for the rest of the world.

Pfft, one sided hypocrisy at its most evident, especially after that Condoleeza Rice statement.

For the humvee part I kind of chuckled a bit at that. But you know it shows that the Russian's are being extremely territorial now. They want to reclaim their lost land. The things that don't belong to them whether it is weapons or vehicles is now theirs.


I believe that something like this is going to continue to escalate. As you do know that obviously the truce didn't settle in right, between Georgia and Russia. Does the U.S even know that diplomacy doesn't work anymore? (except North Korea). The U.S tried to do that to Iran but not a hope would the Iranian's would ever give up their nuclear arsenal and power.


This is going to get a bit more worrisome when Ukraine is involved now, since NATO has a relation with Ukraine. How will the U.S react to that? I take it that Russia know what's coming to them, to aggrivate the U.S, until the U.S comes in and attacks. Then you know who will be to blame of "who attacked first".

The Russian's know exactly what kind of game the U.S is playing.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by Shrukin89]

[edit on 19-8-2008 by Shrukin89]

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Its not a myth,

just what are american hummers doing in that part of the world then?

America was involved in this war, if people cant accept that its their own ignorant fault.

who's to say we didnt have hummers there?
we had troops.... why not transport for them>?

It is no secret that the US was training the Georgian troops, It's no secret that the US has hardware over there including Hummers and small arms (M-16's, etc.)
But that does not mean anything more than the US was training the Georgian troops. I have not heard of any US troops being killed or captured in this although some Blackwater contractors may have been captured.

You gotta understand, I don't feel the US should have been there in the first place but a military training presence does not constitute an active participant in the Georgian aggression.

But Russia will and is using the Hummers, the cache of 1,800 M-16's and the captured American mercs as a means to demonstrate American complicity in Georgia's criminal attack on South Ossentia - and I think that's a bit of a stretch.