Many think God's intervention can revive the dying

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
The doctors said that his brain injuries were so severe there was only about a 3% chance he would even live through the night. They also said that, even if he DID live, he would be a vegetable the rest of his life. He has fully recovered, and is just a little crazy. Oh, wait. He was crazy before the accident!

The doctor was quite obviously wrong.

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
Years ago, my sister was experiencing headaches, blurred vision, all kinds of bad things like that. She went in and her doctor ordered either I CAT scan or an MRI (I forget). The thing showed a very large brain tumor. To make a long story short, some church elders came to the hospital and annointed her with oil, prayed for her, layed on hands, the whole 9 yards. (I don't think she even belonged to that church). They did another scan a few days later, and there was no tumor. Her neurosurgeon had no explanation for it. She still has the Cat scan/MRI pics.

How do you know they didn't mix up her CAT/MRI scans with another patient? It happens a lot more than you might think.

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
Lastly, there have been many, many recorded instances of people coming back from the dead. And by that, I do not mean resuscitated either.

Like this one?

Morgue baby loses fight

Tel Aviv - A premature baby girl who shocked Israelis when she suddenly showed signs of life after more than five hours in a morgue refrigerator has died in the northern Israeli hospital where she was born.

A senior gynaecologist who had helped deliver the 610g baby, born on Monday in the fifth month of her mother's pregnancy, had erroneously declared the girl stillborn because he had found no pulse.

Oh look! It even happened in the holy land! Oooooooo... How cool is that?

The Human being is a very efficient being it can heal itself but if your not focused on the job at hand it wont happen.

A Website that expresses my theory

Human are too focused on whos going to win American Idol. Even Middle Easterners are curious which American Idol will make President

The Truth is very evident and to me more so then ever...

On April 18th of this year... I rounded a curve and missed a stop sign I ended up in the hospital i was t boned at about 50 MPH and I myself was going an additional 20 or 30... I had absolutely no recollection of the event ... What I did see is still amazing me daily. I saw my family in the future... things i dont want to know or see but a few of them have come to pass... my sisters pregnant.... My mom told me the truth about something that I had seen. I've had 20 second DejaVu of events I've seen before and other thigns Id rather not say... After all of that I had 1 scratch and a memory that was trying to come back to me... I asked my brother about all of my exs because I apparently saw their futures (possiblt having sex with them connected me to them) I also saw their futures with and without me (small glimses... 5 years id say). In my oppinion I was given a chance to continue on or not to (life). I believe that to be so because I saw my ex slit her wrists while I was unconscious and it didn't make sense to me for months but when I was with her she had threatened to do so for a long time and her mom was going to send her to a school for mentall retarded kids but the truth was she was adopted late and had problems adapting to the english language and she is doing much better now but she had told me if we didnt get her out of there she would have killed herself. So to me my spiritual beliefs are intact and I know that there is something out there... what Im not sure. So for these medical things i just kinda laugh. Its all about belief... they cant convice you and you cant convice them just learn from them. Learn that HOPE heals and learn that perserverance heals in its own way. The people who seem to be being fake are the ones that end up in their graves sooner then others I have noticed. SO anyways thats my story. I beleive that in my accident I was given a choice to come back or not to and I was showed my accomplishments and shown that (i dont beleive it or didn't, that I was a good person and beneficial to this world... but i saw what my friends and family were without me and while I am not the greatest person.... all of the small things I do and have done for people apparently made a world of difference)

So just beleive in the good. The rest doesnt matter. Healing is what you make of it. Heal yourself or heal the world. You can be spiritual or not. It doesnt matter just do something beneficial for this world.

I was born with my spine hanging out of my back in 1984. I had a condition called Spina bifida cystica (myelomeningocele) which is a neural tube defect. Chances are if you know someone with this, they cant walk at all. If they are lucky, they maybe can use a wheelchair. Most people with this condition also need a shunt implanted into their skull in order to drain cerebral-spinal fluid. Again, I beat the odds on that as well. I need neither. I am a perfectly healthy twenty four year old male who enjoys full contact kickboxing.

The incompletely closed portion of the spinal cord and the nerves which originate at that level of the cord are damaged or not properly developed. As a result, there is usually some degree of paralysis and loss of sensation below the level of the spinal cord defect. Thus, the higher the level of the defect the more severe the associated nerve dysfunction and resultant paralysis.

Ultrasound screening for spina bifida is partly responsible for the decline in new cases, because many pregnancies are terminated out of fear that a newborn might have a poor future quality of life.

The doctors have no idea how I turned out the way I did, and I am very thankful my parents did not have an abortion due to the severity of the problem. This was done twenty four years ago as well, so the medical field in this area was nowhere near as advanced as it is today. I would say I am probably less then 1% of people born with Spina bifida cystica who is able to walk, let alone without assistance and with no other problems associated with it. They were rewarded with a healthy baby boy, after a major back surgery to put my spinal cord back in my body, lol.

There is no cure for nerve damage due to spina bifida. To prevent further damage of the nervous tissue and to prevent infection, pediatric neurosurgeons operate to close the opening on the back. During the operation, the spinal cord and its nerve roots are put back inside the spine and covered with meninges. In addition, a shunt may be surgically installed to provide a continuous drain for the cerebrospinal fluid produced in the brain, as happens with hydrocephalus. Shunts most commonly drain into the abdomen. However, if spina bifida is detected during pregnancy, then open fetal surgery can be performed.

Most individuals with myelomeningocele will need periodic evaluations by specialists including orthopedists to check on their bones and muscles, neurosurgeons to evaluate the brain and spinal cord and urologists for the kidneys and bladder. Such care is best begun immediately after birth. Most affected individuals will require braces, crutches, walkers or wheelchairs to maximize their mobility. The higher the level of the spina bifida defect the more severe the paralysis. Thus, those with low levels may need only short leg braces while those with higher levels do best with a wheelchair. Many will need to manage their urinary system with a program of catheterization. They will need to insert a tube into their bladders to drain urine, of which the intervals vary from person to person, and may need medications to improve their dryness. Most will also require some sort of bowel management program.

I am perfectly fine, no problems at all other then possible frequent urination, but that may just be me and my beer, lol.

I consider myself living proof of a higher power, and cherish every moment of my walking life. I have seen the others when I used to get check ups in the hosptial... confined to a bed, paralyzed from the neck down, or if they are lucky the waist down. I dont remember any other child walking when I was there, and I actually had to schedule my appointments when no other children would be there because the parents would get upset that their child was not as lucky... I feel so bad sometimes but I believe I am destined for something, just no idea what.

Faith is in itself a very powerful tool, and makes it so people have something to hold onto and not give up. Without it, people would just dismiss themselves and write them off as already dead. With faith, they believe they have a chance, and sometimes if you believe in something strong enough I believe it just may happen.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by deadline527]

[edit on 20-8-2008 by deadline527]

God is omnipresent, thus everywhere and everything; including hell and including Satan, if not then God is NOT omnipresent. However, the argument can also be made that since God is omnipotent God is capable of or at least has the potential of not being omnipresent, at which point God becomes a fabricated imagination that bares no consistency with its own said Biblical attributes and can be molded into whatever dream the schizomaniacal beholder desires. Upon which the world we live in is designed after, hence the chaos and idiocy, utter lunacy, deception, despair and intellectual retardation.

Have a nice day folks.

Divine intervention? Huh? Come again, what's that? From who? Where is he?

Riiiight...

C'est le beau! Bon voyage mon amis!

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal



I am sorry but I have to Laugh at you...

You have the anwser to over 400 Billion peoples questions throughout the worlds history... (actually many more) (What, Who, Is there a God? )

And you... you sir ... after all this time have the anwser... The COLLECTIVE CONSCIOUS of mankind (not mine apparently)

I halfway exspected you to post beautiful and aww inspiring music to your post.

I am sorry but I have to Laugh at you...

Oh there's really no need to apologize to me in specific, ever. You do what you do and are who you are. What happens, happens. Just be who you are, that's all I ask for, and that's all you can ever do and all you can ever give me and anyone else. So you'll always be respecting my wishes, all of you.

You have the answer to over 400 Billion peoples questions throughout the world's history... (actually many more) (What, Who, Is there a God?)

The collective consciousness is omnipresent, however it does not fit the confines of the definition given (In Biblical contexts) for the diety and creator, "God". Is there a God? Objectively, No. Subjectively... believe whatever you want, but even if everyone believes in a lie it doesn't make it the truth, on the contrary even if no one believes in the truth, it's still eternally the truth.

And you... you sir ... after all this time have the answer... The COLLECTIVE CONSCIOUS of mankind (not mine apparently)

There is no "God". The collective consciousness is the collective consciousness, pure and simple. The eternally and universally collective consciousness is a thoughtless being propagating its own change and motion through its own material interactions brought about through the myriad of forces etc. that we call science and physics.

I halfway expected you to post beautiful and awe inspiring music to your post.

You shouldn't expect so much of me. Life isn't always a beautiful and awe inspiring experience when those you love and trust and share the planet with don't reciprocate identical virtues. However, when the occasions usher in such a response I duly forgive it.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by Sestias


I found it particularly interesting to note that 20% of doctors and other medical workers believe in divine intervention.

Normally I'm a sceptic, but I have known people all my life who got well against the odds, and most of them attributed it to some higher power.

Still, if a doctor told me a loved one had no chance I'd probably believe him or her. On the other hand, if I was told they had a "slim chance" I just might pray.

I wonder what your experience has been.

www.examiner.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I tell you what. You really have to look at the reasons for it to be honest.

For example, maybe they want to believe that anything is possible in their predicament.

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


So do you beleive in anything spiritual or just yourself?

Do you beleive the mind can heal itself? so in essense if the mind is tapped into the collective conscious some would call it God because God is represented as the truth and th elight in many forms... in whichever way you want...

Do you beleive in the Scientific unexplainable of miraculous healing?

These are just questions that are ON TOPIC for ... I guess im bowing down to you now ( rolls around play bowing... rolls around some more laughing >> Like this )

Spiritual belief is for each individual it is not your right to to say what you have come to believe. Most true christians dont beleive in hell. they dont beleive in the perception of what has come of the christian faith. They beleive in the goodness of the hearts of mankind and forgivness to seek higher understanding and enlightenment... It would be just like Jesus all over again... someone who differs from the rest so the Many will persecute him (wether he become a hobbit, outcast, dead, or whatever) Me myself. I dont beleive God to be a being... but an energy that resides in us all. The Collective Conscience is just a small part of it... If the collective conscience even exists... can you prove it please sir? If it exists its just really... ones own awareness of the truth.

I am open to all avenues of truth... But Dont come in here boldly pronouncing your beleif and passing it off as basic knowledge.

One has the right to their own belief. Even you. Just dont pronounce it to be the truth... I assure you your right and wrong... you have only found a small fraction of the truth... its why your still hear on ATS... searching... Its why you found this thread

An interesting video..

10 questions that every intelligent Christian must answer



-ChriS

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

You assert that God can choose not to be omnipresent, but how do you know when those occasions occur? Just for the sake of argument, and assuming the more or less conventional concept of a higher power, maybe he chooses to be present to some people at some times, if not all people all the time. In that case they wouldn't, strictly speaking, be delusional as God would be a reality to the chosen few.

My husband poses this question: God can be all powerful OR he can be all good, but he can't be both at the same time. If he is all good and lets terrible things happen to innocent people then either he is not powerful enough to stop them or chooses not to stop them, in which case he's not all good.

It's a question I can't fully answer. But I may be getting off my own topic.

reply to post by BlasteR


Unfortunately, my computer is too old to handle YouTube videos. I'd really like to see it.

reply to post by BlasteR


Oh thats easy Chris.

God didn't write the bible... humans did. Humans on the brink of primal instict... now thousands of years later here we are still killing and working on becoming more enlightened... but when your governments demand that you kill to maintin citizenship and other small unimporant facts of life this happens.

God doesn't create amputees. The amputee was created by his mom who ate something which was modified by disease or human(if in the womb) (more then likely human) The amputee was caused by another human in the womb or out of the womb... God is not responsible for what other humans do... God also built and designed the earth for humans to inherit it. If we create crops out of the lab that will deconstruct the human dna... thats not his fault its ours. Grow up folks its time you realised we are in a world full of ignorance... Nowhere in the bible does it say God will anwser your prayers how you ask for them... If it does its wishful thinking by a very niave fales prophet. We are responsible for everything that happens to every human. The impact your wifes abusive father had on her affects the way she parents yoru child... and so forth its all human... Not God. Stop trying to blame God and blame your fellow human... your fellow self. Its funny everyone quote versus from the bible but in Genisis where God Disappears out of the bible... (obvious its created by a man or its just the truth) It says how dissappointed God is with mankind and goes back and allows angels or something to inhabit the earth and watch over us... But the point is GOD left and everyones quoting from the bible where God said this and that... Noo... a man said this and that and God left in Genisis. The point is we write our own destiny as humans and we let greedy folks inherit the earth and destroy it. It doesnt matter about one amputee who pitys himself and is selfish to pray for a new leg. The ones without legs can make the biggest impact on the world by proving that without legs they can do everything like the rest of us we all have the power to do what we will and want. Those saying God grants us our prayers is rediculous. We grant our own wishes. God Granted us life and thats it. We put out energy and receive energy God created the energy... thats all.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by rjmelter]

So do you beleive in anything spiritual or just yourself?

I don't have beliefs. I analyze existence around me objectively, anything said to be eternally beyond material explanation is something that is not a part of my material existence.

Do you believe the mind can heal itself?

The mind created medicine. Yes. However, prayer is a scam.

so in essense if the mind is tapped into the collective conscious some would call it God because God is represented as the truth and the light in many forms... in whichever way you want...

No, the collective consciousness is the consciousness of the universe as one eternal existence or being (I use the word being as beingness, not as "entity"). The Being is existence. We are Humans Being, or rather Humans existing, henceforth Human Beings. The Beings of Human. The Human, Being.

An omnipresent deity referenced to as "God" that is referred to as the collective consciousness and only the "light" and truth is absolutely false. An omnipresent Being would also be in the dark and the collective consciousness, that is the consciousness of all entities, also contains liars. And what I am explaining to you is the truth about the collective consciousness. I am a perfect Being because I have become one with the perfection of the eternal Being.

Do you believe in the Scientific unexplainable of miraculous healing?

I do not place my faith in ignorance and I do not call a happening that contains ab absence of scientific evidence, "God" or "divine". There are things that currently can not be explained by science, but I refuse to label them miracles of "God" or "divine intervention" just because they are temporarily inexplicable.

Spiritual belief is for each individual it is not your right to say what you have come to believe.

Are you a dictator? I personally am not conveying what I "believe", I am sharing what the one eternal existence is.

I dont beleive God to be a being... but an energy that resides in us all. The Collective Conscience is just a small part of it... If the collective conscience even exists... can you prove it please sir? If it exists it's just really... ones own awareness of the truth.

A collective conscience is an objective one, not a solely subjective one. What is right or wrong is whether 2+2=4 or not. Whether the Earth really takes 365 days to orbit the sun, whether the speed of light is truly impassible. These things are universally consistent. Everyone will perceive them the same whether the symbols that represent them remain the same or not; their concepts are universally true. Everywhere you go 2 things plus 2 things will be 4 things regardless of how it is represented.

I am open to all avenues of truth... But Dont come in here boldly pronouncing your beleif and passing it off as basic knowledge.

I can and will do as I do. Your sentence is a contradiction, you are obviously not open to the avenue of truth that boldly pronounces itself. (p.s. I don't have beliefs)

One has the right to their own belief. Even you. Just don't pronounce it to be the truth... I assure you you're right and wrong... you have only found a small fraction of the truth... its why you're still here on ATS... searching... It's why you found this thread

I don't have beliefs, what I pronounce to be the truth is as simple as 2+2=4. It is an objective observance and a universal scheme. You can not assure me of anything that you think I am until you prove it.

No, I am not searching. I'm here on ATS because after returning home from a long day of foosball and beer at a friend's house I decided to check up on the ol' ATS and see how things were coming along. I no longer search, I teach. If you pay attention you might learn something.

Have a nice day. I'll be going away for some time again.

Originally posted by rjmelter
Oh thats easy Chris.

God didn't write the bible... humans did. Humans on the brink of primal instict... now thousands of years later here we are still killing and working on becoming more enlightened... but when your governments demand that you kill to maintin citizenship and other small unimporant facts of life this happens.

If God is omnipresent and this is the plan of God and God is within all of us, then God is responsible for everything and also the cause of everything.

Until I hear someone say that God is not omnipresent then you and your colleagues can start making a better argument.

I hope you blossom out of your confusion and fraught and find the truth. It may not be as beautiful as you once were lead to believe, but at least it's the truth.

Au revoir, sir.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne

Prayer is just as effective as placebo. What's that tell you?

I don't think it's surprising that people believe the good lord can save their life. People believe all kinds of crazy nonsense. Thankfully for them, believing is enough - it doesn't have to be true in order for it to work.

The power of suggestion is extremely under-appreciated.

I agree the power of ones own mind and spirituality can do amazing things, I like what you said above my thoughts excatly. My opinion on this matter is god maybe up there but considering the size of the univerese I would have to say god let us fend for ourselves and he gave us some pretty complex organs to do so! I also consider Divine intervention to be nothing more the ones own spiritual energy combined with caring individuals saying prayers aka forwarding there own personal energy to help kick start the amazing power of the brain.
I'm also told my opinion is squat and people get mad at me for it but hey! It's Just my opinion.

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


I would like to know why you say God is omnipresent... Its just a word. Words are poor examples of truth because they are not always accurate they have to be modified. But its not in the bible I can guarantee you that... I dont even life by the bible. The bible was written in another language... and falsely inertpretted language where your OMNIPRESENT probably meant just what you keep preaching about... All it says it God Exists... A being or a presense that cannot be explained or seen but in the irrelevance or relevance it turns out that the being "God" has a statistical oddity of 51% So therefore its not a yes or no... but it points in the favor that there is a little more then there isnt

reply to post by BlasteR


I wasted 10 minutes & 41 seconds of my life just to listen to some douchebag ask me ten questions and then discredit my answers before he even knew what they would be and I'm supposed to be what, impressed now? immediately throwing away all the Bibles & crucifixes in my home? Denouncing my faith? What? I'm a little befuddled at just what the point of that little display was.

He systematically asks a question and then says "Any answer you give is obviously rationalizing and ridiculous" before knowing what will be said. That's like me saying "Danny Ainge was a better basketball player than Michael Jordan and if you have to use stats to show Jordan was better then you're rationalizing and obviously wrong... Nyah! Nyah!" He talks about college educated people... I'm left wondering what fly by night shysterous swarmy law school he got his defense lawyer degree from.

I'll attempt to respond to the guys questions. None of them are actually that difficult, but I'll probably miss a few as I have no intention of wasting another 10+ minutes watching it again to take it point by point.

Actually no, let me make an umbrella comment here that basically covers them all (though there are one or two which I will individually take on as they stood out.) There is an X-factor when dealing with God that atheists refuse to accept, that X-factor is that we're not standing on a level playing field. You'd have better luck teaching an infant the theories of defferential equations than you would have actually wrapping your head around the omnipotence of God. We're dealing with a being who can say a word and cause something to be. Any humans running around who can do the same? God's ways aren't just not our ways, but it is inconcievable for us to ever actually comprehend God's ways with our imperfect mortal brains.

Slavery & the Bible... I love the "Virtually all intelligent people agree that slavery is abhorrent" comment from the voiceover on the video. Let's see... we've got 10-12 thousand years of actual civilization history on this planet, give or take. Let's be conservative and say 10,000 years. Out of those 10,000 years, slavery has only been truly rejected across the last 100-150 years. Prior to that many cultures used slaves (some still do), and the Western world heavily relied on slaves. So according to this character on the video, mankind has apparently been universally comprised of collective dumbasses for 98.5% of our civilized time on Earth? Doesn't seem right to me, what about to you? Does this supposedly "educated" man on the video count history among the topics he's educated in? I'd guess no, or else he'd recognize that until the industrial age came about, slave labor & indentured servitude were the only reason mankind advanced to the point where the industrial age could occur. Was slavery "right?" Not by today's sensibillities, but from a purely logical standpoint (which he claimed was fair game as there was no way according to him to apply logic to the questions and still maintain your faith) yeah, slavery was definitely the way to go because it advanced the greater good of the civilization.

Science vs the Bible: This one has always amused me. If there is any supposed conflict between science and the Bible, it is of the scientific community's own manufacture, either via them outright smearing the Bible or via them creating theories that were intentionally in defiance of believers. The 6 days, 6,000 year old Earth issue is a dead one as far as I am concerned. There are large gaps in the Bible which shoot holes in the idea that Earth is only 6,000 years old. I didn't even realize that was a contentious point in the Christian community anymore. 6 days again is an example of atheists attempting to cause conflict where none exists. David tells us "For a moment in the life of God is as unto a thousand years in the life of man." God used the concept of the "day" because in the Jewish tradition you set out to perform a set task for a day and your goal was to have it completed sun up to sun down. Should God have written "I created the Earth over the course of billions of years..."? Uh, who in the hell is ANY man to assume the right to suggest what God should do? Isn't that along the same lines as a small child trying to instruct it's father on the proper way to parent?

Finally, the amputee issue (I'm saying this tongue in cheek, BTW)... Nowhere in the Bible does God proclaim the sanctity of legs & arms. in fact he does the oposite "If your right eye offendeth thee, pluck it out and if your left hand offendeth thee, cut it off!" and the pain and suffering on Earth, "behold the first dhall be last and the last shall be first!" They will get theirs when it actually matters... why would you want to fill up on peanuts when you're coming in for a landing and you know that right outside the airport is an all you can eat lobster buffet already reserved for you and paid for by Christ?

No one has ever seen Jesus? News to me! What he meant to say was "I haven't seen Jesus so I lack the faith required to believe He exists." Many people have seen and talked with Jesus. Many have not, but still have faith in Him. I wonder if this man also doesn't believe in Oxygen or viruses or single celled bacteria? Unless he has access to a scanning electron microscope, he's never "seen" them... I guess he should spend his days flailing around gasping for air since, clearly, if he can't see that oxygen he must not be breathing any of it in and must be suffocating.

Finally, finally, the Christ's body, Christ's blood issue... Again, this is an extremely important message that was given to us by God and was based on Jewish law and tradition. The sacrificial lamb the Jews offered for purification of sins was not to be indulged in by anyone apart from the pharisees and saducies in the temple. They best of the flock was taken and offered to them and it was punishable by death to eat from that offering if you were not one of the priests. Similarly, the blood of the offering was burnt and offered directly to God and was also punishable by death to spill a drop of it off the sacrificial slab or to consume any of it. Jesus was God's sacrificial lamb not just for but to each of us. For the first time in recorded Jewish history, the offering was made to the people not to the priests and to God. The symbolism surrounding those words at the last supper wasn't something that can just be written off as "disgusting canibalism" like atheists attempt to do. It had nothing to do with canibalism and everything to do with the world suddenly being made to know that Jesus was sacrificed as the ultimate cleansing of sins.

I don't know if you'll bother to read this nor do I know if it will make you pause to think about it. I do know that questions like that have been made in an attempt to "stumble" Christians for centuries. "If God is all powerfull, can he make a rock so massive not even he could move it?" is an example. The problem that the faithless never seem to recognize is that man is trapped inside a 3 dimensional world with a possible 4th dimension of time which they can only travel one direction in and is trying to postulate questions that will entrap a being that is limitless in dimension & scope by asking said questions of other human beings. It does not work that way.

oh yea, divine intervention? ok, lets check average lifespans.
Source

Humans by Era, Average Lifespan (in years)
* Neanderthal, 20
* Neolithic, 20
* Classical Greece, 28
* Classical Rome, 28
* Medieval England, 33
* 1800's End of 19th Century, 37
* 1900's Early 20th Century, 50
* 1940's Circa 1940, 65
* Current (in the West), 77-81

medieval - got fearing times < today (relatively) godless community. Ok, americans believe in god, but majority of japaneese - dont.
Source

Japanese men live be 78 years old on average while the average lifespan of a Japanese woman is 85.

In fact health care in USA is worse than in some 3rd world nations.

Something is rly wrong with your god. I think he is total moron, or maybe he doesnt give a #. Oh yes, there might be another explanation - ppl are idiots (god does not exist in other terms).

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
I wasted 10 minutes & 41 seconds of my life just to listen to some douchebag ask me ten questions and then discredit my answers before he even knew what they would be and I'm supposed to be what, impressed now? immediately throwing away all the Bibles & crucifixes in my home?

No, just be a little less fundamentalist, please.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6That's like me saying "Danny Ainge was a better basketball player than Michael Jordan and if you have to use stats to show Jordan was better then you're rationalizing and obviously wrong... Nyah! Nyah!"

Well, what is it you think religious types are doing when we say "Science declares this" and they say "well, it ain'tn't in the Bible, so I dun't believe it"?

Originally posted by burdman30ott6He talks about college educated people... I'm left wondering what fly by night shysterous swarmy law school he got his defense lawyer degree from.

Probably one laughed at by Creationist "scientists" alone.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6There is a... omnipotence of God.

Ridiculous. Ignorance is never an answer, just an excuse. Athiests do not need to make up mythical factors that are a convienient extension of the "God of the Gaps" theory. This idea you have is simply a primitive justification because everything about the notion of "God" is so silly.

Where do you get your "X-factor" ideas from? How can anyone assume you aren't simply making it up?

Originally posted by burdman30ott6We're dealing with...comprehend God's ways with our imperfect mortal brains.

No we aren't. We're dealing with people who are too mired in ancient superstitions to accept what the universe is telling us about itself.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6Out of those 10,000 years, slavery has only been truly rejected across the last 100-150 years. Prior to that many cultures used slaves (some still do), and the Western world heavily relied on slaves. So according to this character on the video, mankind has apparently been universally comprised of collective dumbasses for 98.5% of our civilized time on Earth? Doesn't seem right to me, what about to you?

Slavery is an age-old institution. Doesn't make it right.

How about this for a strange concept to follow, if you want to talk history: for 160,000 years of modern man's existence, for 158,000 years, he did not have a concept of Heaven or Hell! Yes, that's right, every generation before the birth of Jesus is currently in Hell, festering away because God was too busy to tell them about the afterlife and what you must do to get there! God even forgot to tell Moses! Doesn't seem right to me, what about to you?

Originally posted by burdman30ott6Science vs the Bible: This one has always amused me... Isn't that along the same lines as a small child trying to instruct it's father on the proper way to parent?

While you, me and the Pope agree that Evolution is perfectly compatible with biblical issues, man has been telling God what to think for a very long time. As Voltaire said, the Gods are good, but the priests are evil. However, God never seems to actually DO anything about those evil priests, so they just carry on.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6Finally, the amputee issue (I'm saying this tongue in cheek, BTW)... Nowhere in the Bible does God proclaim the sanctity of legs & arms. in fact he does the oposite "If your right eye offendeth thee, pluck it out and if your left hand offendeth thee, cut it off!"

What an all-loving and forgiving God he must be. It's no wonder the Israelites kept turning to Ba'al, with a holy message like that one.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6and the pain and suffering on Earth, "behold the first dhall be last and the last shall be first!" They will get theirs when it actually matters

Yes, this doesn't sound like the rantings of the impotent monothestic Jews after being conquered by the pagan Roman Empire, does it?

"It's okay, they'll get theirs and we'll get ours...just after you die, so grin and bear it for now otherwise the Romans will destroy our temple...oh, wait..."

Originally posted by burdman30ott6... paid for by Christ?

Why does all religion call to the selfish nature of man? Why do you need a reward at the end?

If you are good, you'll go to heaven. You are being nice because you want that "glorious eternal afterlife" you think you should deserve. It's like a kid being quiet so his parents will give him sweets at the end.

Why can't you be good, nice people for the sake of simply being good? Is that not it's own reward?

Originally posted by burdman30ott6No one has ever seen Jesus? News to me! Many people have seen and talked with Jesus.

As Jesus is the Greek of Yeshua, and Yeshua used to be a popular Hebrew name 2000 years ago, then yes, people have, but none are alive today.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6Unless he has access to a scanning electron microscope, he's never "seen" them...

Although he might not personally have one, he can be shown one because they actually exist. This is called evidence, something for which you have nothing in support of your own superstitious beliefs. So man up with some hard evidence before you take the piss, thanks.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6Similarly, the blood of the offering was burnt and offered directly to God

Like virtually all ancient pagans, whos religion is derived from the religion of the proto-indo-europeans.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6I don't know if you'll bother to read this nor do I know if it will make you pause to think about it. I do know that questions like that have been made in an attempt to "stumble" Christians for centuries.

And they've been dodging the answers for centuries, just like you now.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6The problem that the faithless never seem to recognize

No, the problem is the archaic world views of ancient middle-eastern peoples has become more important than empirical science.

Let's face it, you aren't going to read or accept any of these points, you'll just try to talk your way around them without addressing any of these issues.

Originally posted by rjmelter
The amputee was created by his mom who ate something which was modified by disease or human(if in the womb) (more then likely human)

Maybe you should look up the definition of amputee.

I get annoyed by the generic use of the word god. The discussions in this thread are about a specific diety with a specific name, typically Yahweh, or in some cases his divine progeny.

Plenty of people know that god or the universal mind, or whatever one wants to call it, exists. We don't all pick and choose what acts come from our God and what acts he has no knowledge of, or responsibility for.

And that is surely a good thing! If Christians believe prayer can heal loved ones, then we should be glad they don't believe prayer can also make people sick, though many apparently do believe their god will help them slay their enemies in times of war (fine line if you ask me).

Anyways, we should be glad they are not consistent because if they were we would have witch burnings left and right just as they do in some primative cultures. Those people believe if someone got sick it's because someone else was praying or otherwise seeking divine intervention to cause harm to their family member.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by Sonya610]